Brussels Airlines in 2019

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pijaleu
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by pijaleu » 24 Oct 2019, 09:31

Just my opinion:

Starting to reduce frequency on leisure destinations unless a new deal with Wamos can be reached .
Also some smaller destinations might dissapear .

On Long haul, axing IAD.
Hoping on one extra destination in Afrika (NBO could work?)
They need wide bodies, just for cargo.

And have aircraft that are reliable. Too much technical problems lately .

rwandan-flyer
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by rwandan-flyer » 24 Oct 2019, 10:48

So I wil reiterate some suggestions from the past. Narrowbodies to Africa, widebodies to Asia, real business class product on short haul, better profiling and segmentation for yield management to maximise business with high unit margin while maximising leisure with volume to get the most revenue from both segments.
More regional routes to connect more dots and feed nto the network.
Offer more frequencies to Italy and Spain in the high season. This is where Ryanair is making its money.

Africa is not an easy market, even if you call Brussels Airlines or Air France, you have to be strong to be the leader. Air France is also struggling in Africa. There are new big competitors, in Africa

Each destinations have a specifity about cargo demand, business demand, leisure demand, VFR demand. Turkish Airlines uses both narrow bodies and wide bodies aircraft to Africa. They will add A330 to Kinhsasa, in 2020, replacing the B737-800 / 900. https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... es-in-s20/ More and more West African destinations are now operated with the TK A330.

Using only narrow body to Africa, is probably not the best solution.
Just my opinion:

Starting to reduce frequency on leisure destinations unless a new deal with Wamos can be reached .
Also some smaller destinations might dissapear .

On Long haul, axing IAD.
Hoping on one extra destination in Afrika (NBO could work?)
They need wide bodies, just for cargo.

And have aircraft that are reliable. Too much technical problems lately .
I think, there was an agreeement with Lufthansa to resume service to Nairobi, while SN has resumed Accra service, served by Lufthansa. It's hard to say, if SN will resume Nairobi service. Synergy works also like this. KLM is focusing on East Africa and Southern Africa, while Air France is focusing on West Africa and Central Africa.

Both airlines recently started service on same destinations, but flights were quickly suspended

KLM resumed, Miami, Mauritius, Freetown and Monronvia services already served by AF, but flights to Sierra Leone and Liberia were suspended.
Air France resumed services Kuala Lumpur and Abu Dhabi already served by KLM, but flights were suspended.

KLM ended Abuja service, replaced by Air France. Kano service was not replaced

Some "new" common destinations are still there : Air France has resumed Taipei, Nairobi & Quito services, started Vancouver and Panama services. Destinations already served by KLM. KLM resumed service to Mumbai, already served by Air France
Last edited by rwandan-flyer on 24 Oct 2019, 11:00, edited 3 times in total.

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Atlantis
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Atlantis » 24 Oct 2019, 10:50

pijaleu wrote:
24 Oct 2019, 09:31
Just my opinion:

Starting to reduce frequency on leisure destinations unless a new deal with Wamos can be reached .
Also some smaller destinations might dissapear .

On Long haul, axing IAD.
Hoping on one extra destination in Afrika (NBO could work?)
They need wide bodies, just for cargo.

And have aircraft that are reliable. Too much technical problems lately .
No way regarding IAD, they are going to make it year round as from next year. Those flights are needed

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sounilr21
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by sounilr21 » 24 Oct 2019, 12:13

Unfortunately it's planned. Therefore no surprise.

Shrinkage of SN is maybe necessary to better jump in long term.

Lufthansa will outing the A330-200s on SN's fleet but also the Boeing 777-200s and 767-300s from Austrian by 2025.

https://www.air-cosmos.com/article/luft ... eing-21895

OS is also struggling but to a lesser extent. Vienna VIE has become very (too) competitive. Lauda (Ryanair), Level, Wizzair, etc ...

the role of SN in Star Alliance could be reduced.
Transatlantic's routes could be targeted by a reduction or a cancellation :
- New York (JFK or Newark) is high-competitive and then JFK could be deleted in long term or transferred to United from Newark.

Star Alliance partners could play a very important role. For example for transatlantic routes ;
Air Canada (and only AC) could operate Montreal and Toronto all year long.
United could operate Washington (2x/day maybe with a mix of 777 and 767), Newark (2x/day maybe with a mix of 787-10 and 757) and Chicago (1x/day).
To compensate for a possible cancellation of transatlantic routes operated by SN "reboot".

SN would be focused exclusively on Africa. His core business.

Leisure flights in Europe could also be canceled and leave to Low-cost companies (Ryanair,...).

This is bad news for Brussels Airlines but not necessarily for Brussels Airport. Other operators, other alliances might be interested to try a commercial offensive on BRU. It's just an idea. Not a concrete thing.

Homo Aeroportus
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Homo Aeroportus » 24 Oct 2019, 12:42

Open question :

Has anyone experienced an unsolicited change in seat reservation lately?
It happened to me 4 times (long haul) that the seat I had reserved ended up being changed (from window to aisle, no just a row number) later in the process.
Outbound to ACC last week I saw that change in the SN system that assigned me an aisle seat next to an occupied seat while the "Comfort" forward cabin was less than half full and a number of windows seats were still available. The agent at check-in mentioned that he had heard that before as well.

Anyone having the same experience?

Thanks,

H.A.

theeuropean
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by theeuropean » 24 Oct 2019, 12:56

If I may interject, the reboot plan means some reductions and streamlining. I don't mind that they cut unprofitable route or change timings but they have to keep the flow into their longhaul operations.

I prefer a core lean network that brings in money (also in times of economic slow down/crisis). More destinations would be great but that should wait until the economy starts to improve a little more. SN already fought FR and VY before, they know their tactics and will be able to use that again.

I feel they also need to get together or work better with other Star Alliance partners, SK is mind boggling they don't work closer together - but I can guess why, it's the next door neighbor up the street that the step mother has an awkward relationship with.

OS LH fleet is so old - 2026 they will be more ancient than dinosaurs - ok I exaggerate but that's reality and it doesn't help with fuel prices. OS, from what I have seen is not truly ready for the onslaught that is about to happen. Wizz Air has stated that its base there is profitable so why let go. Lauda will go EW way for growth while already starting to aim for profits next year. They are also starting routes OS will for the summer so this really does not bode well for OS - even if it is a network carrier.

EW is still a mess and I have also not seen them take drastic action.

Swiss and LH are safe for now, but if Easyjet becomes more aggressive in GVA Swiss will have a problem there. They were already told once to make that base profitable or more profitable.

At least SN is being more proactive.

Finally, I feel that there are internal rumblings (we hear it from time to time). There is no real direction and my feeling is Spohr is just sitting there hoping something good will happen. I also believe it is only a matter of time when low cost carriers start moving in also to MUC, FRA and Zurich.

Let's see apart from this reboot plan, I have a feeling we will hopefully get more news around March to see what is actually happening.

PttU
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by PttU » 24 Oct 2019, 17:26

Flanker3 wrote:
24 Oct 2019, 08:53
So I wil reiterate some suggestions from the past. Narrowbodies to Africa, widebodies to Asia, real business class product on short haul, better profiling and segmentation for yield management to maximise business with high unit margin while maximising leisure with volume to get the most revenue from both segments.
More regional routes to connect more dots and feed nto the network.
Offer more frequencies to Italy and Spain in the high season. This is where Ryanair is making its money.
So...
New planes for Africa... (or did you mean A319/320 narrowbodies to Africa?)
New destinations in Asia...
More regional routes...
More frequencies...

The reboot plan is about downsizing some ops, cutting back, not about more-more-more and new-new-new. The plan is about reducing costs to (hope to) make room for future investments, not the other way around: not about investments now to (hope to) be more profitable in the future.

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Conti764 » 24 Oct 2019, 18:05

Flanker3 wrote:
24 Oct 2019, 08:53
There is no willpower at SN management.
The talented ones with willpower have already left the boat frustrated.

Thomas Cook's failure is a bummer, but part of the travel agencies have been taken over by Wamos so not all is lost. I personally don't understand why SN didn't make a bid on it, considering that as major creditors, they could have secured a good deal and set it up as a separate subsidiary with low risks.
To stick it to Gustin is unfair.

About merging IT systems and Rome not being built in one night. Well, they are part of the LH group since 10 years, sharing the same mileage program. It's really not that hard to merge IT systems and it should have been one of the first priorities.
As you can see, LH is also not properly run.

LH has many fires brewing.
OS not profitable and VIE has now become an ultra-competitive environment. I doubt that OS will survive, LH has clearly lost control of the situation.

With SN announcing a retreat in fanfare, I wonder if we won't see a massive LCC offensive. I'm thinking about Lauda, Easyjet and Wizzair.
I won't be surprised if LH loses its grip on BRU too.

SN is well-positioned overall.
Quite frankly, fares are competitive, they offer decent timings, decent services, the Loop program is working well.
I have also seen progress at Eurowings, they are really transforming into a pan-European airline to the image of Spohr.

So I wil reiterate some suggestions from the past. Narrowbodies to Africa, widebodies to Asia, real business class product on short haul, better profiling and segmentation for yield management to maximise business with high unit margin while maximising leisure with volume to get the most revenue from both segments.
More regional routes to connect more dots and feed nto the network.
Offer more frequencies to Italy and Spain in the high season. This is where Ryanair is making its money.
"Narrowbodies to Africa", how do you handle cargo? Have seperate ops with full freighters?

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Atlantis
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Atlantis » 24 Oct 2019, 18:36

What Flanker3 says makes sense. He was saying this already years ago and see what airlines are doing in meantime.... Sending narrow body to Africa.

But there is also an other side of the medal. To destinations with a lot of cargo is much better to use the WB. To destinations where cargo is not the main factor, a NB can be used, A321.

We know that on certain routes the A330 is too big

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lumumba
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by lumumba » 24 Oct 2019, 18:47

Luanda is one of them....
Hasta la victoria siempre.

VoloperTe
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Location: Brussels

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by VoloperTe » 24 Oct 2019, 18:47

Brussels Airlines must keep widebodies fleet in the future... a mix of A330/A321LR for Africa and A330 for USA&Canada. For Europe network i think a mix of A220-100/A320 it's more than enough !

rwandan-flyer
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by rwandan-flyer » 24 Oct 2019, 19:09

Luanda is one of them....
With few weekly flights to Luanda, CDG-Luanda is probably one of most profitable for Air France. Things have probably changed since early 2010s. However AF added a 3rd daily service to Luanda, few years ago. Flights are now operated with a mix B777-200ER / 300ER, A330-200 and soon B787-9.

2010


Air France jostled on its most profitable network


Lufthansa should expand its influence in Africa. A continent which, since the beginning of the economic crisis, is the lifeline of the French company.

Paris-Luanda

Today, the most profitable axis of Air France in margin rate (61%) is Paris-Luanda but the one that yields the most in absolute value is Paris-Libreville (45 million) because of a number of frequencies more important: four round trips a week against two.


https://www.lefigaro.fr/societes/2010/0 ... ntable.php

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BrightCedars
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by BrightCedars » 25 Oct 2019, 10:38

I wonder why people are insisting SN needs to deploy A330's accross the Atlantic.

From BRU the A321(X)LR aircraft is a perfectly capable aircraft. You can fit a cosy 2x2 side by side or 1x1 slanted C product, a PE with some extra legroom and a good economy cabin. This can work also for Africa and for niche routes. Mind you TLV is within range of regular CEO's and NEO's and SN doesn't have the customer base to fill the front of the plane as I describe it on that market. Perhaps a subfleet of PE+Y only should be investigated.

SN should be a boutique airline that addresses it's home market: it's in the name, it's called Brussels Airlines for a reason and they should stick with that. 20 years ago there were 2 trends in aviation: hub & spoke and point to point. We know know which one is sustainable for them: the latter.

The only way SN will be at an advantage against the hub & spoke players, whether by business model like EK, QR or TK or by opportunity to fill their planes like our neighbors AF, BA, KL & LH is by competing on service and on frequency, not on volumes. They need the right sized plane so that people can select the nonstop option on any given day and pay a small premium for it. An airline makes much more money on a point to point ticket than the other undercutting with a one stop at the same total price, that includes more airport & transit taxes.

Wait for a 5-year long reboot and somebody else will have filled the void. What if say Air Belgium leased some A321XLR's and ploughed the Atlantic from CRL (hypothetical) by the time SN has rebooted? In IT terms it's your favorite color (blue for Windows, purple for VMware,...) screen of death.

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lumumba
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by lumumba » 25 Oct 2019, 11:27

rwandan-flyer wrote:
24 Oct 2019, 19:09
Luanda is one of them....
With few weekly flights to Luanda, CDG-Luanda is probably one of most profitable for Air France. Things have probably changed since early 2010s. However AF added a 3rd daily service to Luanda, few years ago. Flights are now operated with a mix B777-200ER / 300ER, A330-200 and soon B787-9.

2010


Air France jostled on its most profitable network


Lufthansa should expand its influence in Africa. A continent which, since the beginning of the economic crisis, is the lifeline of the French company.

Paris-Luanda

Today, the most profitable axis of Air France in margin rate (61%) is Paris-Luanda but the one that yields the most in absolute value is Paris-Libreville (45 million) because of a number of frequencies more important: four round trips a week against two.


https://www.lefigaro.fr/societes/2010/0 ... ntable.php
Hey Rwanda-flyer.

Air France has a BIG contract with Total and other big oil companies here,they have a special frequent flyer card for them the petrol club card....
Brussels Airlines doesn't have this and will never have we don't have a big national oil company anymore.
Lufthansa on the other hand has a huge hub with a lot of possibilities and again SN doesn't have it,a lot of Russians and Chinese fly with LH.
But there is a market for SN but it's smaller for example when flying from the US Brussels Airlines is the only airline to offer a smooth morning connection.

But Brussels Airlines need to remove this Kinshasa stop it's a problem for a lot of customers.
That's why a A321 has a lot of potential here.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

brusselsairlinesfan
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Joined: 29 Mar 2007, 14:44

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by brusselsairlinesfan » 27 Oct 2019, 01:59

brusselsairlinesfan wrote:
06 Oct 2019, 17:26
Conti764 wrote:
06 Oct 2019, 11:09
Passenger wrote:
06 Oct 2019, 10:21
Air France’s “monoply” for Bamako is one 787 on a triangle flight: Paris-Bamako-Abidjan-Bamako-Paris (AF520/AF521).

What’s in there for Brussels Airlines, if they would fly to Bamako too and if Air France is unwilling to cancelling some of their flights: 75 pax per flight? 100 perhaps?

But please, keep up the good work, guys. And maybe someday you will invent the wheel indeed. But with your great Bamako discovery here, I don’t think you have. Apart from the fact that “Bamako” is discussed regularly within Brussels Airlines, ànd with relevant data like arr and dep statistics.
For the umpteenth time, passenger, this is a forum for aviation enthusiasts, not professionals. People on this forum have the right to think about aviation, write down their idea's and read opinions of other aviation enthusiasts. If you are looking for a professional platform, I am sure you can find it somewhere else. No need for (your typical) arrogance.

Back on topic... "if Air France is willing to cancelling some of their flights?" Is that even relevant? Did KL ask SN to cut back frequency to KGL when they started the flight?

And AF flies it daily on a mix of planes, depending on period: B789, A359, B772, A332... And they are the sole airline between BKO and Europe, thus having a factual monopoly on said route.

And indeed, SN has the figures and facts about the viability of this flight, but again this forum is for enthusiasts, not professionals.
Thank you... indeed I am very far for being a professional but I am « only » an aviation enthusiast... and a die-hard brussels airlines fan ;-)
Hi,
Just booked a flight from CDG to BKO... it costed me almost 1100 EUR return, which is very high due to AF monopoly. Again I am quite sure there is room for SN on that route on a triangle flight? ;-)

convair
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by convair » 28 Oct 2019, 11:03

SN is still flying to Nantes today. Do they still plan to discontinue?

Homo Aeroportus
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Homo Aeroportus » 01 Nov 2019, 17:52

A couple of days ago I heard that details about the Reboot plan will be announced next Thursday.
Anyone to confirm the date ?

Next Thursday is November 7th. What a nice touch to pick that date and not a day before or after.
:cry:

H.A.

DeltaWiskey
Posts: 564
Joined: 13 Oct 2010, 18:33

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by DeltaWiskey » 01 Nov 2019, 22:18

Homo Aeroportus wrote:
01 Nov 2019, 17:52
Next Thursday is November 7th. What a nice touch to pick that date and not a day before or after.
:cry:
Why?

Passenger
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Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Passenger » 01 Nov 2019, 22:24

DeltaWiskey wrote:
01 Nov 2019, 22:18
Homo Aeroportus wrote:
01 Nov 2019, 17:52
Next Thursday is November 7th. What a nice touch to pick that date and not a day before or after.
:cry:
Why?
On 7th Nov 2001, Sabena was declared bankrupt.

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RoMax
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by RoMax » 02 Nov 2019, 01:45

Passenger wrote:
01 Nov 2019, 22:24
DeltaWiskey wrote:
01 Nov 2019, 22:18
Homo Aeroportus wrote:
01 Nov 2019, 17:52
Next Thursday is November 7th. What a nice touch to pick that date and not a day before or after.
:cry:
Why?
On 7th Nov 2001, Sabena was declared bankrupt.
7/11 is the end of the 'silence period' and publication of the LHG 3rd interim report 2019 (JAN-SEPT) - that's the primary reason. As from that date (and not a day earlier) much more financial figures can (and probably will) be communicated to the staff (which is basically synonym to external communication - there have been enough leaks over the past months to realise that). I can only assume those figures will be used as a background to give more info about Reboot. But all details? I doubt it

https://investor-relations.lufthansagro ... tions.html

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