Brussels Airlines in 2019

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nordikcam
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by nordikcam » 01 Sep 2019, 10:36

Conti764 wrote:
31 Aug 2019, 23:11
Poiu wrote:
31 Aug 2019, 18:13
We clearly have a different option, nice to have a civilised discussions with you though!
Time will tell, but I think consolidation is the way to go, concentrate on what is viable and try to grow again,slowly, once the recession has past.
They should consolidate on their strength, Africa. Terminate all other l/h routes and build a solid financial base.

And try to attract more clients up front.
Attract customers, we will have to convince ... with arguments stronger than what has been lived for two years ... and those days...I want to see to believe it.
Close the North Atlantic perhaps but UA or AC offer a lower service than SN when we are lucky that the plane is in the air!

Does anyone have any idea when the situation will be normalized because an airline that cancels 30% of its long haul flights is still not trivial ...

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Conti764 » 01 Sep 2019, 11:11

I don't know exactly what's going on with the long haul issues, maybe it has something to do with the fleet overhaul? Anyways, canceling flights on an almost daily base is bad and proves that the current schedule in itself is a stretch with your current fleet. So unless you're getting extra equipment, I say leave the transatlantic flying and feeding into your highly profitable African operations to your JV-partners who have a bigger fleet and can cope easier with anomalies and focus on your strength, being a reliable airline on a huge potential but operationally still quite challenging African market.

I can't imagine the difference in service between SN and AC/UA is so big one would stop flying transatlantic if those routes get taken over by UA or AC...

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Conti764 » 01 Sep 2019, 11:26

Ge203 wrote:
01 Sep 2019, 10:27
During the presentation a few months back, didn't TD or CS say that to cut cost, you'll never see an Eurowings aircraft based outside three or four hubs in Germany? So I don't think we'll see an Eurowings aircraft based in Brussels.
If money can be made I guess they'd go for it...

They could rotate planes through BRU and hire Belgian crews (or take them over from SN) to the BRU leisure leg and have a German crew flying f.e. BER-BRU-BER on different planes. It takes some scheduling, yes but if the operation might be profitable it might be worth the shot...

SN should trim down on operations, maybe even to an enlarged SNBA-like operation... Do one or two flights to traditional destinations in Europe and if necessary have passengers transit on EW flights from BRU if possible, maybe with a compensation for the lower service level.

SabenaForever
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by SabenaForever » 01 Sep 2019, 12:00

Conti764 wrote:
01 Sep 2019, 11:11
I don't know exactly what's going on with the long haul issues, maybe it has something to do with the fleet overhaul? Anyways, canceling flights on an almost daily base is bad and proves that the current schedule in itself is a stretch with your current fleet. So unless you're getting extra equipment, I say leave the transatlantic flying and feeding into your highly profitable African operations to your JV-partners who have a bigger fleet and can cope easier with anomalies and focus on your strength, being a reliable airline on a huge potential but operationally still quite challenging African market.

I can't imagine the difference in service between SN and AC/UA is so big one would stop flying transatlantic if those routes get taken over by UA or AC...
Indeed... for Today, Douala, Washington en Toronto are cancelled. What’s happening here??

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Atlantis
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Atlantis » 01 Sep 2019, 12:29

It would be good if member Delta Whiskey could give us some reasons why there are so much cancellations for the moment.
The elder planes are phasing out and more recent ones are coming in after technical check.

So what is the reason that daily a few LH planes are out?

JOVAN
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by JOVAN » 01 Sep 2019, 12:36

There is probably a more logical solution, and more economic ??

AIR BELGIUM

If AF, British A, LOT etc. make long term ACMI agreements withAir Belgium, why can't SN.

If SN would use one or 2 AB planes for a few weeks, for JFK and IAD, they would probably loose less money (revenue) and certainly cause less damage to their reputation than now.

It looks like SN is an adapt of self mutulation.

Or is it a LH Catch-21, which is meant to let SN bleed to dead. Find absolutely no solution.
You could also call it sabotage.

Miss Foerster has so far done nothing to give the personnel and the PAX any good feeling or win back the confidence.
She is the type of CEO that is there only because she is a valet of the shareholder, and a confident of Spôhr.

She is not a people manager, nor is she PAX lover. Just a former auditor, can only talk in clichés.
Zero Charisma.
Zero reliability.

Just a (very bad) actress.

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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by jan_olieslagers » 01 Sep 2019, 12:52

Insulting people is rarely a good way to improve their tempers, or their intentions.

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Atlantis
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Atlantis » 01 Sep 2019, 12:58

What was a big surprise to me, when I was reading the latest press release of SN regarding Reboot, is that SN has to pay by itself for the renewing of the future fleet.

We really would like to know where LH is placing SN. When LH is buying new planes, they buy it for the whole group. Not all the time for Austrian bcs Cs said that they don't deserve to receive new planes as they have red figures.

But for SN it seems again different and I have the very strong feeling that they are completely on the side of the field.

We all would like to know what future SN has in this group bcs what we can see now and what they wrote already in this press release is not so good I believe.

Something else what is hard to believe, and was also in the press, is that SN employees are extremely happy with this reboot program and that they have sent already hundreds of idees to bring the company back to where it was before. But the unions were not informed. So what to believe and what not? A lot of fake news in this press release like the axe of the New York flight?

Sorry but the Germans are not what they were 20 years ago. You simply can't trust.

Normally in case of troubles they always could use planes of Euro Atlantic. Air Belgium has also still a plane who is not flying... Act before losing more client

SN501
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by SN501 » 01 Sep 2019, 14:13

Some people here seem to see SN as a playground where they think they can manage their fleet like they could do in a simulation video game.
Reality is much more complicated.

A few element that pop up in my mind and that could bring some context/explanations:

- lh fleet imobilization is not foreseeable. It's difficult to subcontract flights (ACMI) if you are not sure you could need to. BA or LOT have an ACMI agreement with AB only because they know the availability of their 787 fleet is under their standard due to heavy maintenance. TB and any other 737MAX users have such agreements too because there is a certainty about their AOG.

- Asking an ACMI in realtime is very expensive. TB is used to do so only because it can be very complicated for them to find alternatives for their passengers. They are not part of any alliance. They fly to specific destination (some islands with 2 flights a week e.g.) and their flights are often full in high season. Network airlines like SN are not used to have such short term ACMI agreement.

- no one here knows how SN manages these cancellations. However, be sure that if that was a commercial mess there will be every day some stories in the newspaper/media website. We don't see any press report such as "219 stranded passengers due to the cancelation of the Toronto flight". What's the most important is how the airline manage the alternative for the passengers. The sooner the flight is cancelled, the easier it is to bring the passengers to their destination via other flights and/or other airlines. Of course these multiple cancellations are negative for the brand image, especially for the passengers who suffer several time from a flight cancellation. SN is however too small to avoid at all cost any cancellation. One extra back up aircraft is much more expensive than the cancellation costs.

- SN lh fleet is very small and overexploited. 10 a/c and 9 flights a day, even 10 on Sunday. The fleet utilization rate is from 90% to 100%. The more your fleet is big, the more a 10% of unexploited fleet is managable. It's of course a company decision, but one can imagine that this brings more benefits than occasional loses due to an unavailability higher than 10%

- SN lh fleet consists now a part of old birds well known by the tech department. On the other hand the new a/c have probably their new technical features, maybe more complicated to maintain. Maybe SN should have kept an old bird as extra back up until the end of the summer season to ensure a better availability during its fleet renewal. But, again, we don't have the whole picture.
Last edited by SN501 on 01 Sep 2019, 14:19, edited 1 time in total.

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Conti764 » 01 Sep 2019, 14:14

JOVAN wrote:
01 Sep 2019, 12:36
There is probably a more logical solution, and more economic ??

AIR BELGIUM

If AF, British A, LOT etc. make long term ACMI agreements withAir Belgium, why can't SN.

If SN would use one or 2 AB planes for a few weeks, for JFK and IAD, they would probably loose less money (revenue) and certainly cause less damage to their reputation than now.

It looks like SN is an adapt of self mutulation.

Or is it a LH Catch-21, which is meant to let SN bleed to dead. Find absolutely no solution.
You could also call it sabotage.

Miss Foerster has so far done nothing to give the personnel and the PAX any good feeling or win back the confidence.
She is the type of CEO that is there only because she is a valet of the shareholder, and a confident of Spôhr.

She is not a people manager, nor is she PAX lover. Just a former auditor, can only talk in clichés.
Zero Charisma.
Zero reliability.

Just a (very bad) actress.
A little overdramatic, no?

First of all, SN leasing AB planes woyld be a not so good idea. You really want a company named Air Belgium fly your flag carriers flights? They'd be better off leasing HiFly or the likes. But then again, the fact they don't lease at all indicates they are in the know of the issues and think they can handle it the way they do and the issue will ultimately resolve itself. After all, there are tons of alternatives transatlantic, even in the own company/JV/alliance...

Secondly, about LH... I have been very critical of LH's plans with SN as well and still am about LH's mantra 'first earn money before you'll get money' but there is no logic at all behind letting SN bleedig out since it would open up a pretty and underused airport not so far from FRA.

Also keep in mind that SN's management has its hands full with the upcoming reboot plans. So suspecting CF to be a hand puppet who only wants to kill off SN is way off...

I hope the ongoing troubles of SN might prove a wise lesson and a thing to reckon in the strategy they are developping for SN...

nordikcam
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by nordikcam » 01 Sep 2019, 15:41

Atlantis wrote:
01 Sep 2019, 12:58
Normally in case of troubles they always could use planes of Euro Atlantic. Air Belgium has also still a plane who is not flying... Act before losing more client
They lost me (+/- 40 long haul flights a year ) I think definitely two years ago and the situation is getting worse. I do not come back...for sure NO !!!!!!!!!!!

DannyVDB
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by DannyVDB » 01 Sep 2019, 17:07

Wow, 40 flights to/from Africa in a year, that is quite a lot. Impressive. What type of business are you dong there? [I have this year 6 trips to Africa, Mozambique, so unfortunately not a destination I can fly SN].

A lot of drama-queens/kings here :D I fly a lot, have sometimes cancellations (often delays), but not SN in particular, and usually always solved by the airlines to my own satisfaction. It has never been a reason for not flying X or Y anymore.

At the end of the day it is the availability of a flight (destination, timing, only then the pricing) that influences my choice; never irrational or emotional arguments for whatever reason. This means by definition: starting my journey almost always in BRU (yes I avoid CDG or AMS because of the train), many times going through FRA/MUC/VIE/ZHR because the big offer and the convenience (I do not like LHR becuase of 1) the long 'landing-time' and 2) the long 'queing-time') and often using SN from BRU for European and N-Amarican flights because ... they simple have many destinations from BRU :D (business and also leisure).

PS: I will fly them again to Toronto next Saturday, then taking Rouge to Saint-Lucia. Recently I took them to Washington as well. Great service, only the tables in the older A332 are terrible :(

Cheers,
Danny

nordikcam
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by nordikcam » 01 Sep 2019, 18:03

DannyVDB wrote:
01 Sep 2019, 17:07
Wow, 40 flights to/from Africa in a year, that is quite a lot. Impressive. What type of business are you dong there? [I have this year 6 trips to Africa, Mozambique, so unfortunately not a destination I can fly SN].

A lot of drama-queens/kings here :D I fly a lot, have sometimes cancellations (often delays), but not SN in particular, and usually always solved by the airlines to my own satisfaction. It has never been a reason for not flying X or Y anymore.

At the end of the day it is the availability of a flight (destination, timing, only then the pricing) that influences my choice; never irrational or emotional arguments for whatever reason. This means by definition: starting my journey almost always in BRU (yes I avoid CDG or AMS because of the train), many times going through FRA/MUC/VIE/ZHR because the big offer and the convenience (I do not like LHR becuase of 1) the long 'landing-time' and 2) the long 'queing-time') and often using SN from BRU for European and N-Amarican flights because ... they simple have many destinations from BRU :D (business and also leisure).

PS: I will fly them again to Toronto next Saturday, then taking Rouge to Saint-Lucia. Recently I took them to Washington as well. Great service, only the tables in the older A332 are terrible :(

Cheers,
Danny
:) Not Africa ... but the North Atlantic. My usual destinations are Canada (east and west coast) USA (west coast) and Cuba sometimes Brazil. My favorite airport for making connections is YYZ ... sometimes IAD so SN and AC or Rouge ... or UA for the States. Rouge is a worse Eurowings, UA does not have a great service or no service and AC is correct but can not be compared to SN. I have 40 flights but they are only 20 Allers Retours. Cancellation of 2 consecutive flights at SN ... even had the cancellation of the flight that replaced the canceled flight! I think that happens too often at SN. So I gave up MM to refocus on the FlyingBlue program and the direct flights from CDG on YYZ / YVR / HAV / YUL / SFO / LAX sometimes in A380. It's perfect for me! Train under Terminal 2E or F. Luggage supported the day before. I am a SN lost passenger recovered by others. Pity ! Belgian I would come back willingly at SN but it does not take the way!
We must start from a blank page! :)

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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Homo Aeroportus » 01 Sep 2019, 21:00

I reported quite a number of cancellations and delays lately.
I also realize that in doing so, although trying to be factual, I participate in the general perception that something ain't right at SN.

And that rings an old internal bell in me :
"You don't talk if you don't know, and you don't know if you don't measure".

My own questions were around : is it true that "so many flights" are affected? Were the old birds more or less prone to delays?
So I took advantage of a (temporary) limited mobility to get after the facts. (fingers and what's between the ears seems to be in a reasonable shape, thank you).
I downloaded the raw data from FR24 for the last 365 days for each aircraft in the SN long haul fleet and worked a bit the numbers. Downloading by A/C tail number may result in some "Cancelled" status but that doesn't say if the flight had not been taken over by another aircraft.
So I discarded those cancelled ones, only imposing a fictional long delay (= departure at 23:59) when I really know those flights were actually scrubbed.
Consequently, a (large?) number of the cancellations are not included in my summary below.

Disclaimer :
I tried to produce a factual analysis. I am not bashing SN in anyways and if my attitude is biased, what I always strive to avoid, it may be more in favour than against SN.
As I posted before I have some understanding of what flight disruptions represent, of course in terms of passengers being affected but also for all those at SN who must face the consequences.

Here is what it boils down to.

Of course flight delays are only significant on arrival but many stations do not produce data for FR24 to report. Also, in case of heavy delay on departure, decision is sometimes taken to "skip" a stopover such as a BRU-Accra-Lomé-Accra-BRU that becomes BRU-LFW-ACC-BRU. This has positive effects on subsequent operations by reducing the delay of the return flight but those Pax bound to ACC will suffer an additional delay. Besides, if the number of pax coming on board in LFW exceeds the number of empty seats (ACC Pax are still on board), you have even more affected passengers.
So I used the Actual Departure Time and I considered that less than 1 hour is "on the house". Even if it were to result in a full one hour delay on arrival, it is not so significant in long haul operations and if you planned a short connection in Africa you must really be a Msungu. ;)
Moreover, sometimes the reason for the delay may not be in the hands of SN (I reported earlier that a number of passengers in transfer in BRU, arriving with another airline and staying in the lounge until the last moment, may not have the required visa. They are denied boarding and their luggage must be offloaded).

So I sorted the delays in 3 categories :
Light : 1 to 2 hours
Moderate : 2 to 3 hours
Severe : more than 3 hours (including some cancellations).

Here is the summary, including some retired birds.
SN Flight Delays.png
SN Flight Delays Graph.png
Beware not to jump to hastily conclusions concerning SFF. Too few flights to be statistically significant.

I have not allowed myself to react upon these numbers, I would need to know how other airlines are doing to compare.
But what is your reaction?

H.A.

DannyVDB
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by DannyVDB » 01 Sep 2019, 21:14

nordikcam wrote:
01 Sep 2019, 18:03
DannyVDB wrote:
01 Sep 2019, 17:07
Wow, 40 flights to/from Africa in a year, that is quite a lot. Impressive. What type of business are you dong there? [I have this year 6 trips to Africa, Mozambique, so unfortunately not a destination I can fly SN].

A lot of drama-queens/kings here :D I fly a lot, have sometimes cancellations (often delays), but not SN in particular, and usually always solved by the airlines to my own satisfaction. It has never been a reason for not flying X or Y anymore.

At the end of the day it is the availability of a flight (destination, timing, only then the pricing) that influences my choice; never irrational or emotional arguments for whatever reason. This means by definition: starting my journey almost always in BRU (yes I avoid CDG or AMS because of the train), many times going through FRA/MUC/VIE/ZHR because the big offer and the convenience (I do not like LHR becuase of 1) the long 'landing-time' and 2) the long 'queing-time') and often using SN from BRU for European and N-Amarican flights because ... they simple have many destinations from BRU :D (business and also leisure).

PS: I will fly them again to Toronto next Saturday, then taking Rouge to Saint-Lucia. Recently I took them to Washington as well. Great service, only the tables in the older A332 are terrible :(

Cheers,
Danny
Rouge is a worse Eurowings, UA does not have a great service or no service and AC is correct but can not be compared to SN.
I found Rouge (I have to admit, flew in their business class) better than LH or LX (in comparable European Business class), sorry :) . Did not yet fly EW though ...

Poiu
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Poiu » 01 Sep 2019, 21:35

Homo Aeroportus wrote:
01 Sep 2019, 21:00

"You don't talk if you don't know, and you don't know if you don't measure".
But what did you measure?? I think you’re not using the correct tool to measure.
If SFB, supposed to operate IAD at 1000 is AOG and replaced by SFF, which lands from a previous flight at 1100 and departs for IAD at 1200, You can’t attribute that delay to SFF. 2 hours delay for SFB is also wrong...

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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Homo Aeroportus » 01 Sep 2019, 22:07

Poiu wrote:
01 Sep 2019, 21:35
Homo Aeroportus wrote:
01 Sep 2019, 21:00

"You don't talk if you don't know, and you don't know if you don't measure".
But what did you measure?? I think you’re not using the correct tool to measure.
If SFB, supposed to operate IAD at 1000 is AOG and replaced by SFF, which lands from a previous flight at 1100 and departs for IAD at 1200, You can’t attribute that delay to SFF. 2 hours delay for SFB is also wrong...
Maybe I didn't express myself correctly.
I am not trying to put a delay tag on a specific aircraft. I only take note that FR24 recorded that a flight had an ATD of so much. If this is a delay compared to the STD, then I register it as such (if it exceeds 1 hour). Without putting the blame on a given aircraft.

The example you give is not applicable. The turnaround of the A330s is about 5-6 hours.
If an aircraft planned to operate the next day is known to arrive too late, Ops will replace it, though this often means selecting which flight will be scrubbed or heavily delayed by ripple effect.

OO-SFF that left today with a 5 hour delay will not return in time to operate OUA/ABJ tomorrow and SFX has already been put in line instead.

H.A.

Poiu
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Poiu » 01 Sep 2019, 23:36

Homo Aeroportus wrote:
01 Sep 2019, 22:07

I am not trying to put a delay tag on a specific aircraft. I only take note that FR24 recorded that a flight had an ATD of so much. If this is a delay compared to the STD, then I register it as such (if it exceeds 1 hour). Without putting the blame on a given aircraft.
That is not what you wrote...
Homo Aeroportus wrote:
01 Sep 2019, 22:07
My own questions were around : is it true that "so many flights" are affected? Were the old birds more or less prone to delays?

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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Homo Aeroportus » 03 Sep 2019, 12:52

Two pics hereafter :

History :

SN Flight Delays Graph by Month.png
July and August were terrible in terms of on-time departures, not even showing all cancellations.


But this is over (fingers crossed). Today all SN chicks are on duty :

20190902 SN All out.png

Even OO-SFZ that played the Hangar Queen during the last 15 days is fit again.
She had a 1-hour dry run yesterday and today is heading for Douala.

H.A.

Kapitein
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Kapitein » 03 Sep 2019, 21:47

Homo Aeroportus wrote:
03 Sep 2019, 12:52


Even OO-SFZ that played the Hangar Queen during the last 15 days is fit again.
She had a 1-hour dry run yesterday and today is heading for Douala.

H.A.
OOSFZ was indeed in the hangar for some time, but it wasn’t a technical issue.
It had some spilling of a fluid in the hold that had really annoying and irrating smell in the cabin

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