Brussels Airlines in 2019

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JOVAN
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by JOVAN »

If SN wants to grow and become a network airline, you would imagine they would work on and develop further their existing destinations.

When you see Moscow is only served 5 times a week ( 21 times by Aeroflot !!),
Bordeaux, Bristol, Prague,..hardly once a day.

Focus on business destinations will certainly help to get figures up.

Leave pure holiday destinations to TUI or Eurowings I would say.

Business travellers fly more frequently, and pay more than tourists.

See the growth rates of OS and LX.
Of course I know LH is treating SN like a step-mother, but I really hope changes will come.

Jetter
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Jetter »

JOVAN wrote:
18 Aug 2019, 13:54
If SN wants to grow and become a network airline, you would imagine they would work on and develop further their existing destinations.
First they need smaller planes (Embraer/A220). The A319 is too big to fly multiple daily to destinations as Bristol.

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by sn26567 »

Jetter wrote:
18 Aug 2019, 14:09
JOVAN wrote:
18 Aug 2019, 13:54
If SN wants to grow and become a network airline, you would imagine they would work on and develop further their existing destinations.
First they need smaller planes (Embraer/A220). The A319 is too big to fly multiple daily to destinations as Bristol.
That's why Bristol, Hannover, Billund, Nantes, Bordeaux, etc. are subcontracted to CityJet and its CRJ-900s.
André
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CTBke
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by CTBke »

sn26567 wrote:
18 Aug 2019, 14:26
Jetter wrote:
18 Aug 2019, 14:09
JOVAN wrote:
18 Aug 2019, 13:54
If SN wants to grow and become a network airline, you would imagine they would work on and develop further their existing destinations.
First they need smaller planes (Embraer/A220). The A319 is too big to fly multiple daily to destinations as Bristol.
That's why Bristol, Hannover, Billund, Nantes, Bordeaux, etc. are subcontracted to CityJet and its CRJ-900s.
Bordeaux is on the Airbus 319
Citybird
The flying dream

Jetter
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Jetter »

sn26567 wrote:
18 Aug 2019, 14:26
Jetter wrote:
18 Aug 2019, 14:09
JOVAN wrote:
18 Aug 2019, 13:54
If SN wants to grow and become a network airline, you would imagine they would work on and develop further their existing destinations.
First they need smaller planes (Embraer/A220). The A319 is too big to fly multiple daily to destinations as Bristol.
That's why Bristol, Hannover, Billund, Nantes, Bordeaux, etc. are subcontracted to CityJet and its CRJ-900s.
Indeed. But if you want to expand in destinations/frequencies to such airports you can’t keep subcontracting. That makes sense as long as it’s a too small sub-fleet to operate yourself.

rwandan-flyer
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by rwandan-flyer »

When you see Moscow is only served 5 times a week ( 21 times by Aeroflot !!),
Bordeaux, Bristol, Prague,..hardly once a day.
Sheremetyevo International Airport: 45 millions pax per year
Brussels Airport: 25 millions pax per year

Aeroflot: 254 aircraft
Brussels Airlines: 56

Aeroflot has a big presence in East Europa and in Asia, with several connecting waves to and from Asia, during the day. They have good fares to Asia, and thus they have lots of passengers in connecting. The have some morning departures to Dubai, Shanghai, Bangkok and Bejing and on their Russian Network. That's probably why they operate some night flight, from some UE destinations to Moscow, including Brussels.

We have to know what are the most popular connecting, from SN destinations. Brussels Airlines operates only morning flights at Paris, due to the high number of passengers flying to or from Africa, via Brussels Airlines.

C96C
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by C96C »

Jetter wrote:
18 Aug 2019, 16:55

But if you want to expand in destinations/frequencies to such airports you can’t keep subcontracting. That makes sense as long as it’s a too small sub-fleet to operate yourself.
Why not?
some big airlines with subcontracters:

SAS with Cityjet
Iberia with Air Nostrum
Swiss with Helvetic

Stij
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Location: Belgium

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Stij »

Jetter wrote:
18 Aug 2019, 16:55
But if you want to expand in destinations/frequencies to such airports you can’t keep subcontracting. That makes sense as long as it’s a too small sub-fleet to operate yourself.
In the US it's the most normal thing to subcontract everything under 100 seats...
Example... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SkyWest_A ... stinations

Cheers,

Stij

JOVAN
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by JOVAN »

rwandan-flyer wrote:
18 Aug 2019, 20:38
When you see Moscow is only served 5 times a week ( 21 times by Aeroflot !!),
Bordeaux, Bristol, Prague,..hardly once a day.
Sheremetyevo International Airport: 45 millions pax per year
Brussels Airport: 25 millions pax per year

Aeroflot: 254 aircraft
Brussels Airlines: 56

Aeroflot has a big presence in East Europa and in Asia, with several connecting waves to and from Asia, during the day. They have good fares to Asia, and thus they have lots of passengers in connecting. The have some morning departures to Dubai, Shanghai, Bangkok and Bejing and on their Russian Network. That's probably why they operate some night flight, from some UE destinations to Moscow, including Brussels.

We have to know what are the most popular connecting, from SN destinations. Brussels Airlines operates only morning flights at Paris, due to the high number of passengers flying to or from Africa, via Brussels Airlines.
I mean: same route BRU-MOSCOW is served 21 times by AEROFLOT, only 5 times by BRUSSELS AIRLINES.
SN also has connections.

SN simply underperforms on many destinations. Long way to go.

Passenger
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Passenger »

JOVAN wrote:
19 Aug 2019, 21:44
I mean: same route BRU-MOSCOW is served 21 times by AEROFLOT, only 5 times by BRUSSELS AIRLINES.
SN also has connections.

SN simply underperforms on many destinations. Long way to go.
With such a statement, it's obvious you know the load factor. Can you share that with us please?
Same for the yield status. Please share it with us.

lucas
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by lucas »

Passenger wrote:
19 Aug 2019, 22:19
JOVAN wrote:
19 Aug 2019, 21:44
I mean: same route BRU-MOSCOW is served 21 times by AEROFLOT, only 5 times by BRUSSELS AIRLINES.
SN also has connections.

SN simply underperforms on many destinations. Long way to go.
With such a statement, it's obvious you know the load factor. Can you share that with us please?
Same for the yield status. Please share it with us.
Myguess is that it is a mix of two factors. Okay, you may be right that SN needs more planes. But I think there are just more Belgians going to Asia, in exemple via Russia. Than Russians going to Africa via Brussels. I think the obvious stop for Eastern Europe and Asia is via Istanbul. Turkish Airlines has just a far more wide offer of destinations in Africa, and they are better known across Eastern Europe. If SN has more planes, they could maybe offer a morning and an evening flight to Moscow, but they never will offer as much flights as Aeroflot.

Just my two cents.

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Atlantis
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Atlantis »

JOVAN wrote:
18 Aug 2019, 13:54
If SN wants to grow and become a network airline, you would imagine they would work on and develop further their existing destinations.

When you see Moscow is only served 5 times a week ( 21 times by Aeroflot !!),
Bordeaux, Bristol, Prague,..hardly once a day.

Focus on business destinations will certainly help to get figures up.

Leave pure holiday destinations to TUI or Eurowings I would say.

Business travellers fly more frequently, and pay more than tourists.

See the growth rates of OS and LX.
Of course I know LH is treating SN like a step-mother, but I really hope changes will come.
I follow the idea also of member JOVAN. Some time ago we spoke already that SN has too many leisure flights. Reaction was that during weekends and other moments SN planes are on the ground bcs no business and that they make profit with. This I can understand too.

But I found a very nice article too today regarding this subject. Airlines have much higher revenue on pure business flights than with leisure flights. This is what we know and confirmed.

OK, I will go in the past but in the time of SABENA they had Sobelair to do those leisure flights. SN has now a too big portfolio of those Thomas Cook flights.

A network carrier should focus on business destinations with a high frequency. If there is in Belgium still a high demand besides Tui to organize holiday flights, than a new one should be created

https://nl.express.live/londen-new-york ... tvaart-op/

JOVAN
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Joined: 08 Jun 2006, 00:00

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by JOVAN »

Passenger wrote:
19 Aug 2019, 22:19
JOVAN wrote:
19 Aug 2019, 21:44
I mean: same route BRU-MOSCOW is served 21 times by AEROFLOT, only 5 times by BRUSSELS AIRLINES.
SN also has connections.

SN simply underperforms on many destinations. Long way to go.
With such a statement, it's obvious you know the load factor. Can you share that with us please?
Same for the yield status. Please share it with us.
Just comparin SN with LX, OS, SK ,TP.. countries of similar size (or smaller )
Underperforming is the only thing you can conclude.
No commercial strategy.
We are a medium size company(300 people) , with around 60 people flying around the world very frequently..

Never have been approached by SN.
They just sit back in their office I think, ..

Checking low load factors, checking low yield status, I guess. Making statistics and excuses ??
KL, LX,QR ... go around. Go and find the customer.

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BrightCedars
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by BrightCedars »

And they are not helped even by their group partners. I got a targeted email from LX last week to fly between BRU and NYC, WAS or BOS with them. SN offers 2 of those destinations.

rwandan-flyer
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by rwandan-flyer »

Just comparin SN with LX, OS, SK ,TP.. countries of similar size (or smaller )

TP has a big network, in South America, and a growing network in USA and in Africa (almost 10 destinations).
Austrian has good network, in North America, in Asia and limited network, in Africa and Caraïbes.
Swiss has a good network in North America, South America (manly via Edelweiss) and in Asia.

SN is focused only in Africa, for the long haul flights. Others carriers are focused at least on 2 or 3 markets, for the long haul flights, giving more choices for passengers. All SN long haul flights leave Bru, on the morning, while at Lisbon, Zurich or Vienna, you have long haul flights leaving the airport, during the morning, afternoon and late evining, operated by the national flag carrier.

If we add the fact, that all these airlines have partnership with others airlines, it gives more choices for passengers.

Ex: LX has a code share aggrements with Cathay Pacific on the Hong Kong-ZRH service. So passengers flying with LX (from Paris, Brussels or London), have the choice to fly on 1 of 2 daily flights. Early Afternoon flight operated by CX and late evening flights operated by LX.

And then, demand between Europe and Asia, between Europe and America (South & North) or between Asia and America (via Europe) is bigger than to or from Africa to any part of the world.

I don't know what will be the futur plans for SN, but maybe, with more flights to North America, they will be probably add more flights on some markets in Europe. There is a big market between Eastern Europe and North America. With only 3 destinations in North America, for SN it's probably not enough to tap into the demand, between Eastern Europe and North America or more globally between Europe and North America. I see that Thai has put its TG code on the Bru-Toronto and Bru-Washington services, it's a good thing

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by sn26567 »

BrightCedars wrote:
20 Aug 2019, 10:29
And they are not helped even by their group partners. I got a targeted email from LX last week to fly between BRU and NYC, WAS or BOS with them. SN offers 2 of those destinations.
The whole LH Group organisation is a mess. I just saw a Tweet from a frequent flyer saying "Ahh the delights of booking with LH group: combined LH & SN itinerary cannot be booked on either Lufthansa or Brussels Airlines websites, it works fine with Online Tourism Agencies, tickets issued, seats can be selected on LH but NOT on SN."

A little coordination, please!
André
ex Sabena #26567

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Airbus330lover
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Airbus330lover »

Same problem when you will book rewards on Thaï with SN or LH M&M

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Atlantis
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Atlantis »

rwandan-flyer wrote:
20 Aug 2019, 10:36
Just comparin SN with LX, OS, SK ,TP.. countries of similar size (or smaller )

TP has a big network, in South America, and a growing network in USA and in Africa (almost 10 destinations).
Austrian has good network, in North America, in Asia and limited network, in Africa and Caraïbes.
Swiss has a good network in North America, South America (manly via Edelweiss) and in Asia.

SN is focused only in Africa, for the long haul flights. Others carriers are focused at least on 2 or 3 markets, for the long haul flights, giving more choices for passengers. All SN long haul flights leave Bru, on the morning, while at Lisbon, Zurich or Vienna, you have long haul flights leaving the airport, during the morning, afternoon and late evining, operated by the national flag carrier.

If we add the fact, that all these airlines have partnership with others airlines, it gives more choices for passengers.

Ex: LX has a code share aggrements with Cathay Pacific on the Hong Kong-ZRH service. So passengers flying with LX (from Paris, Brussels or London), have the choice to fly on 1 of 2 daily flights. Early Afternoon flight operated by CX and late evening flights operated by LX.

And then, demand between Europe and Asia, between Europe and America (South & North) or between Asia and America (via Europe) is bigger than to or from Africa to any part of the world.

I don't know what will be the futur plans for SN, but maybe, with more flights to North America, they will be probably add more flights on some markets in Europe. There is a big market between Eastern Europe and North America. With only 3 destinations in North America, for SN it's probably not enough to tap into the demand, between Eastern Europe and North America or more globally between Europe and North America. I see that Thai has put its TG code on the Bru-Toronto and Bru-Washington services, it's a good thing
Exactly. Not so long ago, SN had a second small long haul wave in the afternoon to a few African countries. I can't remember if they still have it or not or what the reason is why they stopped.

But an evening wave would certainly work. We have now already an interesting and strong wave but an extra NY evening flight is a must together with extra African destinations. Rwandair and Ethiopian are doing it, so SN has the market here. I hope they will consider it

A321Lufthansa
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by A321Lufthansa »

JOVAN wrote:
19 Aug 2019, 21:44
rwandan-flyer wrote:
18 Aug 2019, 20:38
When you see Moscow is only served 5 times a week ( 21 times by Aeroflot !!),
Bordeaux, Bristol, Prague,..hardly once a day.
Sheremetyevo International Airport: 45 millions pax per year
Brussels Airport: 25 millions pax per year

Aeroflot: 254 aircraft
Brussels Airlines: 56

Aeroflot has a big presence in East Europa and in Asia, with several connecting waves to and from Asia, during the day. They have good fares to Asia, and thus they have lots of passengers in connecting. The have some morning departures to Dubai, Shanghai, Bangkok and Bejing and on their Russian Network. That's probably why they operate some night flight, from some UE destinations to Moscow, including Brussels.

We have to know what are the most popular connecting, from SN destinations. Brussels Airlines operates only morning flights at Paris, due to the high number of passengers flying to or from Africa, via Brussels Airlines.
I mean: same route BRU-MOSCOW is served 21 times by AEROFLOT, only 5 times by BRUSSELS AIRLINES.
SN also has connections.

SN simply underperforms on many destinations. Long way to go.
After moving to SVO SN doesn’t have any advantages against SU - the airport conditions are now completely same but service which SN offers is much worse. Earlier they were at least more convenient to people who prefer DME. I also don’t believe the argument of convenience of SVO to businessmen - their current business model doesn’t fit that. I’m pretty sure that businessmen prefer SU much more on that route - difference between 3 daily 738 and 5 weekly 319 can’t indicate the opposite.

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sounilr21
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by sounilr21 »

After the big delay on Dulles this Tuesday (more than 7h30!), Today it is the flights of Toronto and JFK which are affected by importants delays (check screenshot). It's incredible to see much delays in few days.
I hope that the next Brussels Airlines strategic plan will be ambitious but also with fiability (it's correct word ?) as a target.
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