Brussels Airlines in 2019

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by sn26567 »

Boeing767copilot wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 20:09
If there were now 3 to 5 large Belgian investors who put 200 million on the table to buy back Brussels Airlines from Lufthansa, I think CS would soon sell his "lossmaking" subsidiary.

What do you think?
Why would they put 200 million on the table when they got only 2 million to sell 55% of the company?
André
ex Sabena #26567

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RoMax
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by RoMax »

sn26567 wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 21:33
Boeing767copilot wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 20:09
If there were now 3 to 5 large Belgian investors who put 200 million on the table to buy back Brussels Airlines from Lufthansa, I think CS would soon sell his "lossmaking" subsidiary.

What do you think?
Why would they put 200 million on the table when they got only 2 million to sell 55% of the company?
*after none of those shareholders owning that 55% at the time wanted to put 1 Euro on the table while LH enabled with a 100mio credit line to keep SN flying in 2012 with a relative 'small' impact on employment and securing market position (enabling SN to continue the launch of JFK in one of their toughest years of the past decade)

Not a single significant Belgian shareholder wanted to invest in SN when they still had complete freedom to do with it what they wanted, why would anyone do it now (especially 200mio...)? SN always struggled through life by growing and investing with the little money it was earning by itself, small steps, one by one. Not at a single moment it was helped by a rich or willing shareholder (except in 2001/2002 to avoid a complete vacuüm on the Belgian air transport market) - contrary to e.g. Swiss which was kickstarted by rich Swiss banks that quickly switched their focus from the failed Swissair to the new Swiss.

Somehow so many people still seem to hope for some sort of messiah that will 'save SN from all evil' by throwing money and planes at it. That's not how it works...

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cathay belgium
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by cathay belgium »

RoMax wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 21:54
Somehow so many people still seem to hope for some sort of messiah that will 'save SN from all evil' by throwing money and planes at it. That's not how it works...
Indeed, that's only by Alitalia !

😂😂
New types flown 2020 : A321neo,B781
New types planned : E140

Poiu
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Poiu »

RoMax wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 21:54
SN always struggled through life by growing and investing with the little money it was earning by itself, small steps, one by one. Not at a single moment it was helped by a rich or willing shareholder (except in 2001/2002 to avoid a complete vacuüm on the Belgian air transport market)
Your memory is letting you down a bit here Romax!
SN has never made any money, apart a couple of marginal profitability years which don’t even make up for the losses made during the other years.
SN has been kept artificially alive by:
-selling LHR slots they “bought” from Sabena for 1€ the day before the bankruptcy,
-by disguised state aid (during 10 years the aircrew pension fund money was withheld from the salaries but not put into the pension fund, which made aircrew lose their special pension in 2011)
-by an Alitalia like construction to transform a 125mio€ state loan into worthless shares.
- idem for the initial investment by the rich and willing 2001 shareholders you speak about
-by an emergency lifeline from Lufty

Employees have been fighting to keep the company alive since the beginning and accepted salaries and working condition which are way below the going rates, it was a price they were willing to pay to be employed close to their families. Asking even more from them now will be a slap in the face which will lead to disengagement and de motivation.

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Conti764 »

Poiu wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 22:51
Employees have been fighting to keep the company alive since the beginning and accepted salaries and working condition which are way below the going rates, it was a price they were willing to pay to be employed close to their families. Asking even more from them now will be a slap in the face which will lead to disengagement and de motivation.
Wow :shock: Did I just read a slight sense of criticism towards Lufthansa? Your holy Lufthansa?

LH gave SN a lifeline, true. That's all they did. Keep the company afloat but not invest in it, not allow it to prosper and grow into a stable profitability. And now SN is being dragged along in a doomed pet project of Carsten Spohr.

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lumumba
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by lumumba »

In my opinion a piece of the puzzle is missing here the Belgium government did not help at all Brussels Airlines and Brussels Airport after the terrorist attacks.

They should have invested millions then because everything was working well Brussels Airlines that year should make around 50 million profit.

Nobody could stop this investment sure not the EU and has with SABENA they did nothing!!!!

Brussels Airlines has never really recovered since.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

Jetter
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Jetter »

lumumba wrote:
21 Jun 2019, 02:13
In my opinion a piece of the puzzle is missing here the Belgium government did not help at all Brussels Airlines and Brussels Airport after the terrorist attacks.

They should have invested millions then because everything was working well Brussels Airlines that year should make around 50 million profit.
They wouldn’t even need to invest if they had a policy favorable towards aviation. Instead there is a Diablo tax, little investment in the road infrastructure around BRU, a privatized airport for which airlines pay the price, the threat of noise fines imposed etc. Unions aren’t helping either with recent strikes from pilots, handlers and atco’s.

When you’re surrounded by countries who have a policy to facilitate the national airline (NL), have the most popular tourist city in the world (FR) or a home market with little competition (DE) and you don’t have any aviation policy at all even a large one-time investment wouldn’t have been enough to compete.

Boeing767copilot
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Boeing767copilot »

LUFTHANSA announces a re-orientation of Brussels Airlines: closer alignment with Network Airlines; integration into Eurowings will not be further pursued.

The best news ever. :D

b720
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by b720 »

Excellent news! A good morning to all!

SkyTourist
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by SkyTourist »

Back to this picture then :)
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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Conti764 »

Boeing767copilot wrote:
24 Jun 2019, 10:47
LUFTHANSA announces a re-orientation of Brussels Airlines: closer alignment with Network Airlines; integration into Eurowings will not be further pursued.

The best news ever. :D
Finally some common sense.

ezis_bis
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by ezis_bis »

Conti764 wrote:
24 Jun 2019, 11:05
Finally some common sense.
I think so too
The construction of LongHaul Brussels inside Star Alliance and integrated in Eurowings was way too complex to be workable. And such a structure can't be lean and efficient.

I think an efficient hybrid carrier in Brussels Airport can do well, plus it mixes two specific audiences; frequent travelling eurocrats and African diaspora, it's quite an interesting mix.

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by sn26567 »

André
ex Sabena #26567

Boeing767copilot
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Boeing767copilot »

Would this wise decision not be partly due to the efforts and good work of the German CEO Christina Foerster? After a year and a half, she probably determined that integration was not the best solution for Brussels Airlines and Eurowings.

Bel33
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Bel33 »

It was also the opinion of Bernard Gustin... Remember!

FlyingUnicorn
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by FlyingUnicorn »

I’m still a bit sceptic over the news. Everybody gets a hooray mood over this news.

There are pro and cons. And lots of questions.
- european flights maybe eurowings after all.
- long haul only brussels airlines brand.
- what if you dont get break even... (lots of good parts are allready stripped)

And what about eurowings. Its euro... it wont be germany only.

Maybe later this year more answers (or bitter pills after hopefully a disturbance free summer)

PttU
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by PttU »

Boeing767copilot wrote:
24 Jun 2019, 10:47
LUFTHANSA announces a re-orientation of Brussels Airlines: closer alignment with Network Airlines; integration into Eurowings will not be further pursued.

The best news ever. :D
Not to be the party-pooper that brings rain on this sunny day, but...
What if "Brussels Airlines" will indeed remain for the long haul flights, but Eurowings will take over some European Flights, gradually increasing it's foothold at BRU, slowly phasing out the destinations, crew and aircraft of SN?
What if Eurowings for instance takes over the flights to and from HAM, TXL,... as Eurowings has a strong German base?
What if Eurowings takes over the flights to Heraklion, Marsa Alam, or other ex-TC-destinations, as those are clearly point-to-point? SN can still codeshare on these flights, but it would still match with "focus on A320" and point-to-point, and add some brand recognition for Eurowings in Brussels.
That way "closer alignment with Network Airlines; integration into Eurowings will not be further pursued." remains valid, but not necessarily good news for the long term.

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by sn26567 »

Boeing767copilot wrote:
24 Jun 2019, 11:45
Would this wise decision not be partly due to the efforts and good work of the German CEO Christina Foerster? After a year and a half, she probably determined that integration was not the best solution for Brussels Airlines and Eurowings.
I think that the Comm dept also listened to the mood in Belgium and relayed the concerns of the Belgians to the LHGroup management. Comm is going both directions!
André
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jan_olieslagers
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by jan_olieslagers »

Would this wise decision not be partly due to the efforts and good work of the German CEO Christina Foerster?
Partly, perhaps. But I'm sure the powerful influencers at luchtz^h^h^h^h^h aviation24.be contributed at least as much!

dev7
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by dev7 »

Of course the headlines are focused on the Eurowings integration being called off, but at the same time a 'turn around plan' has been announced for Q3.

This timing is very likely a tactical move to avoid industrial action during the Summer season, in which case I'm sure the plan won't be to the liking of the personnel and unions.

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