Brussels Airlines in 2019

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Darjeeling
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Darjeeling » 01 Jun 2019, 16:11

Question :?: :

When will the new EW/SN entity leave Star Alliance ? We all know Eurowings is totally separated from Star...

I have heard in 2022 at the latest, but how will they proceed if the SN brands survive for the long-haul ? That must be a headache. :| :roll:

I tend to say that North Atlantic and AFI flights will be "Eurowings opearted by Brussels Airlines" for pure marketing purposes... but out of Star Alliance.

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by sn26567 » 01 Jun 2019, 16:23

737MAX wrote:
01 Jun 2019, 13:47
brusselsairlinesfan wrote:
31 May 2019, 23:11

Weeping realistic words... I would say exactly the same.
I refused to believe it before seeing this pic. I did immediatly cancel my next to HER on SN... in favor of AF from CDG!
So instead of flying from BRU with people still working for Brussels Airlines but with a chance to be in a Eurowings livery plane, you cancel your booking in favor of... Paris????
Err..., brusselsairlinesfan lives in Paris. He was going out of his way to fly SN!
André
ex Sabena #26567

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travellover
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by travellover » 01 Jun 2019, 16:33

SabenaForever wrote:
01 Jun 2019, 01:45

Like some people say here, that from now on they will only fly with AF, KLM, BA etc, I think is simply ridiculous. If you still want to be a little patriotic. Then support at least the people who work here in Belgium.
Otherwise have fun on your 1-stop hopping trough Europe... :roll:

Greetings
Christophe
Absolutely !

Especially in a market as complex as civil aviation, without knowing which degree of profitability and expansion of SN to BRU could always be reached in the future.
Aren't the entire fleet (also EW in DUS "operated by SN") and the last entry OO-SNN still wearing the "OO" aircraft registration letters and also the AITA code "SN'' ? ...
Cheers

Passenger
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Passenger » 01 Jun 2019, 16:54

Boavida wrote:
31 May 2019, 21:51
I will never set a foot in that aircraft. I've always said that from the moment the first SN aircraft is painted into EW, my boycott starts. Bye bye SN/EW. I will not ever fly an airline that has killed our flag carrier. Call me stupid or nostalgic, I don't care. Flying is more than just wanting the cheapest price. It's also about the product, the brand, the identity. Whenever I boarded an SN plane in a faraway destination I already felt 'at home'. This feeling will not exist when boarding a generic EW plane, a company without identity - let alone a Belgian identity.

I work in the tourism industry at a department that plans hundreds of (professional) air journeys of customers, associates, colleagues, etc. all year round. As of today we will avoid by all means to fly with Eurowings/SN.
I don't believe you. The basic principle in our travel industry is that we book what is the best for our clients, keeping in mind their convenience and budget. When you avoid booking them on SN for strictly personal reasons (your personal nostalgic feelings), you are misleading your clients.

jan_olieslagers
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by jan_olieslagers » 01 Jun 2019, 17:13

Yes. I was thinking the same, but kept (for this once! :) ) my mouth, being totally unacquainted with that business.

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Conti764 » 01 Jun 2019, 17:53

Darjeeling wrote:
01 Jun 2019, 16:11
Question :?: :

When will the new EW/SN entity leave Star Alliance ? We all know Eurowings is totally separated from Star...

I have heard in 2022 at the latest, but how will they proceed if the SN brands survive for the long-haul ? That must be a headache. :| :roll:

I tend to say that North Atlantic and AFI flights will be "Eurowings opearted by Brussels Airlines" for pure marketing purposes... but out of Star Alliance.
I wonder why they start painting new SN-aircraft in EW-colors only now? Why not take advantage of C- or D-checks tot repaint the current fleet?

Maybe they'll retain the SN brand not only for longhaul but for select short and mediumhaul flights as well? Maybe they don't even know what to do with SN in the longer term?

737MAX
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by 737MAX » 01 Jun 2019, 18:03

sn26567 wrote:
01 Jun 2019, 16:23

Err..., brusselsairlinesfan lives in Paris. He was going out of his way to fly SN!
:oops: Then he was a good fan to be willing to fly from BRU iso Paris! :lol:
But still (in general), there are people working for this airline! No matter how it's called. People seem to forget that...

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travellover
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by travellover » 01 Jun 2019, 19:23

Whatever the name or the livery projects, SN/EW is still the home carrier employing locals here and abroad, and transporting passengers to and via BRU. So personnally, no reason to avoid SN.
Cheers

Poiu
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Poiu » 01 Jun 2019, 20:01

travellover wrote:
01 Jun 2019, 19:23
Whatever the name or the livery projects, SN/EW is still the home carrier employing locals here and abroad, and transporting passengers to and via BRU. So personnally, no reason to avoid SN.
Exactly!
On top of that the general public, 99,9% of the passengers, doesn’t care.
HLN put a, for once, nicely written article about this online yesterday. After 24 hours there is not a single comment from readers, which confirms they don’t care.
For the moment it’s just a change of pyjamas, but biggest danger, of course, are the possible job loss in the offices and lower T&Cs once (new) employees start working for EW iso SN.

Jetter
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Jetter » 01 Jun 2019, 20:38

travellover wrote:
01 Jun 2019, 19:23
Whatever the name or the livery projects, SN/EW is still the home carrier employing locals here and abroad, and transporting passengers to and via BRU. So personnally, no reason to avoid SN.
This applies to every airline at BRU. You can't fly from BRU without employing locals and indeed every airline does so, or hires a 3rd company that in turn hires locals.

Ansett
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Ansett » 01 Jun 2019, 21:14

Unfortunately, I must agree with Poiu. The vast majority of leisure travellers don't care which airline they fly as long as it is cheap. Hence, the huge success of Ryanair all over Europe. Something CS wants to duplicate. We'll see if he succeeds.

Moreover, most leisure travellers don't know and don't care which aircraft they fly. Put them in an old Tupolev54 (if they are still allowed to fly) operated by "Bohemian Airlines" and they will find it OK (most of them), because they don't know the difference between the different planes.

Of course, I am nostalgic, too, and angry that the Brussels Airlines brand is set to disappear.
However, a big question remains which CS has not perhaps thought about : if EW/SN are not part of Star Alliance and/or you cannot earn status miles on EW(SN), frequent business travellers might be tempted to switch to the competition, because for most high yield pax, the status and its privileges are often more important than the miles (or Loops or whatever).

Sorry for the broken record, Poiu, but I have been saying for two or three years already that I avoided LH Group airlines whenever possible (except SN). Out of BRU, for European flights, there are usually enough alternative direct flights.

I'm sorry for SN employees if some travellers (probably not the majority) will start patronizing other airlines like I've been doing for AF-KL. I have witnessed many mergers or acquisitions in other sectors and they all come with tears (if not blood).

As to the best wishes from one or two members on the forum when not flying direct/nonstop, I would like to recall that in BRU we don't have that many direct intercontinental flights and anyway, direct flights are always more (even much more) expensive than flying through a foreign hub. For instance, a direct flight from BRU to BKK with TG or to Toronto with SN (to give only two examples) will be more expensive than flying through a foreign hub (AMS, CDG, LHR etc...). So, most people will fly with a connection, unless their company has a corporate agreement with an airline of group of airlines (and even then, given the limited choice in direct intercontinental flights out of BRU, a connection may be unavoidable).

On a lighter note, SN's livery was not exactly very "exciting" (except for the iconic ones), but it applies to most airlines. EW's livery reflects German lack of fantasy, but it is less boring than the new LH livery which I have seen in several airports and made me think of a hearse (plane).

As to the female flight attendants' uniforms, they also reflect German taste (forgive me, but if you see how CF is dressed, what can you expect ?)

However, as long as I have been flying (also as a child with my parents), I seem to have seen KLM female flight attendants dressed (for decades now ?) in the same (for me) ugly uniforms. So, EW(SN) female cc should not feel lonely.

For me two important questions remain open :
1. Will it be possible to earn status miles with EW(SN) on
a) all Star Alliance frequent flyer programs
b) on Miles&More only
c) or neither of the above.

2. What brand (SN ? EW ? Other ?) will operate SN's current long haul flights ?

Sorry fo the long post.

Have a nice sunny week-end !

bartds
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by bartds » 01 Jun 2019, 21:44

Very sad to see the flag carrier transforming into a generic brand without added value, even from its BRU base. Gone the national identity that almost each European country has.
They could have kept the Belgian touch with a ‘Belgian Wings’ name. Used SN as former Sabena iT employee for each holiday trip, several times/year. Good price when booking in advance, quality product & travel with a smile. Entering the aircaft was like coming home.
Will think twice now.

jerry
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Joined: 03 Jul 2014, 18:34

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by jerry » 01 Jun 2019, 22:30

I am a *A gold and the only reason I fly SN (staying in the area, not BXL directly) is because of those benefits. Also, have to say that SN is the only airline that has thanked me for my business with them (not even my "parent" *A gold airline has done it).

If they completely transform to EW model (as in Germany) I will look for alternatives (AMS, DUS, etc.).

But to be honest, I am not sure if they care about losing this kind of business. I guess they have done their calculations and in the end maybe we are a "cost" for them (due to all the gold perks).

My 2 cents are that if they somehow manage to persuade the crews, the transition to pure EW will be easier. Still curious how they will handle the Africa network though.

SkyTourist
Posts: 27
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by SkyTourist » 02 Jun 2019, 14:42

Darjeeling wrote:
01 Jun 2019, 16:11
Question :?: :

When will the new EW/SN entity leave Star Alliance ? We all know Eurowings is totally separated from Star...

I have heard in 2022 at the latest, but how will they proceed if the SN brands survive for the long-haul ? That must be a headache. :| :roll:

I tend to say that North Atlantic and AFI flights will be "Eurowings opearted by Brussels Airlines" for pure marketing purposes... but out of Star Alliance.
I don't know if this will actually make a significant change. At present FFers registered with UA, AC and ANA's frequent flyer programmes can already collect miles when flying EW flights (e.g. people transferring in Brussels to/from EW flights would continue to earn miles just as they do today on SN flights) and book EW reward flights. Presumably additional arrangements can be made with other *A flights offering connections with EW.

Conversely if you are currently SN M&M you earn miles and status on EW flights as well. I suppose that people enrolled in SN M&M will eventually get transferred to LH/AA/LX M&M, thus maintaining their M&M status and equivalent *A benefits?

jerry
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by jerry » 02 Jun 2019, 15:18

@SkyTourist: the problem is that EW is not a *A member and as such you do not get the additional benefits, such as lounge access and priority boarding. It’s true that you might be able to get miles with some agreements with AC, UA, NH but *A is way bigger than that.

But as I said before, perhaps it is their intention to limit these benefits by transiting to EW.

SkyTourist
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Joined: 07 Sep 2015, 00:26

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by SkyTourist » 02 Jun 2019, 15:59

jerry wrote:
02 Jun 2019, 15:18
@SkyTourist: the problem is that EW is not a *A member and as such you do not get the additional benefits, such as lounge access and priority boarding. It’s true that you might be able to get miles with some agreements with AC, UA, NH but *A is way bigger than that.

But as I said before, perhaps it is their intention to limit these benefits by transiting to EW.
@jerry: You are right, benefits with a EW ticket are harder to get (e.g. at least a Smart ticket for lounge access; don't know about their priority policy). As you say it will be interesting to see how they will deal with the benefits you mentioned and broaden up to other *A partners or not. If they want to keep business travellers, this may be a factor to consider.

With the consolidation within the LH group (as Casten Spohr is always predicting: a consolidation in Europe into 3 major airlines, comparable to the big three in the US) the Eurowings model may further develop. They have already moved from the low cost model to the more SN-like hybrid model with three booking classes. Acknowledging *A lounge & priority privileges could strengthen their position on the business market. On the other hand the talks about Eurowings moving more into tourism (https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/br ... in-market/ hints at Eurowings taking another direction. But similarly, also SN now is partially a regular, partially a leisure carrier.

Poiu
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Poiu » 02 Jun 2019, 16:23

SkyTourist wrote:
02 Jun 2019, 15:59
jerry wrote:
02 Jun 2019, 15:18
@SkyTourist: the problem is that EW is not a *A member and as such you do not get the additional benefits, such as lounge access and priority boarding. It’s true that you might be able to get miles with some agreements with AC, UA, NH but *A is way bigger than that.

But as I said before, perhaps it is their intention to limit these benefits by transiting to EW.
@jerry: You are right, benefits with a EW ticket are harder to get (e.g. at least a Smart ticket for lounge access; don't know about their priority policy). As you say it will be interesting to see how they will deal with the benefits you mentioned and broaden up to other *A partners or not. If they want to keep business travellers, this may be a factor to consider.
How many business(wo)men are going to lose hours on an intermediate stop to have lounge access or priority boarding? Once again a couple of avgeeks yes, but the general public can be divided into two; VFR who want to fly as cheap as possible and business people who want to minimise their travel time. Frequent flyer benefits only come in third position and far behind convenience and price.

SkyTourist
Posts: 27
Joined: 07 Sep 2015, 00:26

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by SkyTourist » 02 Jun 2019, 16:40

Poiu wrote:
02 Jun 2019, 16:23
SkyTourist wrote:
02 Jun 2019, 15:59
jerry wrote:
02 Jun 2019, 15:18
@SkyTourist: the problem is that EW is not a *A member and as such you do not get the additional benefits, such as lounge access and priority boarding. It’s true that you might be able to get miles with some agreements with AC, UA, NH but *A is way bigger than that.

But as I said before, perhaps it is their intention to limit these benefits by transiting to EW.
@jerry: You are right, benefits with a EW ticket are harder to get (e.g. at least a Smart ticket for lounge access; don't know about their priority policy). As you say it will be interesting to see how they will deal with the benefits you mentioned and broaden up to other *A partners or not. If they want to keep business travellers, this may be a factor to consider.
How many business(wo)men are going to lose hours on an intermediate stop to have lounge access or priority boarding? Once again a couple of avgeeks yes, but the general public can be divided into two; VFR who want to fly as cheap as possible and business people who want to minimise their travel time. Frequent flyer benefits only come in third position and far behind convenience and price.
SN's lounge is not filled with AV geeks only ;). Passengers using future EW feeder flights to/from BRU may appreciate the lounge, just as business travellers will appreciate the priority checkin/security/boarding. It may be a factor, so with jerry I am curious what direction they will be moving in.

Poiu
Posts: 612
Joined: 14 Nov 2015, 09:38

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Poiu » 02 Jun 2019, 17:06

SkyTourist wrote:
02 Jun 2019, 16:40

SN's lounge is not filled with AV geeks only ;). Passengers using future EW feeder flights to/from BRU may appreciate the lounge, just as business travellers will appreciate the priority checkin/security/boarding. It may be a factor, so with jerry I am curious what direction they will be moving in.
Don’t read what I didn’t write!
Off course people appreciate the lounge, the question however is will they change their travel plans and increase travel time because lounge access is not available?
Many businesses people have top tier company credit cards which come with a free lounge access pass anyhow. The ones who travel to Turkey to fly four domnestic C sectors to obtain M&M Gold status and have a whole year of free gold benefits, whilst travelling on the cheapest fares, will be complaining, but it is exactly this category of customers that airlines want to get rid off.

Ansett
Posts: 403
Joined: 13 Apr 2016, 19:12

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Ansett » 03 Jun 2019, 00:05

Poiu, can you please explain this : "The ones who travel to Turkey to fly four domnestic C sectors to obtain M&M Gold status". Unless the rules have changed recently, you need 100,000 qualifying miles in one year to get M&M Gold (Senator) status !

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