Strikes affecting Belgian airports in 2019

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lumumba
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Re: Strikes affecting Belgian airports in 2019

Post by lumumba » 02 Jul 2019, 20:07

Passenger wrote:
02 Jul 2019, 19:49
Conti764 wrote:
02 Jul 2019, 17:14
Passenger wrote:
02 Jul 2019, 11:17
The figures for 2018 (Swissport Belgium nv/sa) haven't been published yet, but the losses over 2016 and 2017 show that there is little room for more staff and/or a salary increase, as the trade unions demand:
result: 2017 : -4.745.162 €
result 2016 : -6.455.069 €
So it's bad management.

Or maybe BAC shouldn't be so cheap. Many years ago, I worked for a subcontractor and every 5 or so years the contract had to be renewed. Each time BAC asked more for less money.
As allways: when a company makes a profit, it's thanks to the employees. When they make a loss, it's bad management. Let me add some more figures:

result: 2017 : -4.745.162 €
result 2016 : -6.455.069 €
result 2015: -5.167.963 €
result 2014: -9.497.838 €
result 2013: -10.293.918 €
result 2012: -350.193 €

- - -

The above figures, and their debt position, doesn't allow Swissport Belgium nv/sa to invest in new equipment, as the unions demand. And maybe the 593 fulltime and 583 parttime employees (31/12/2017) should try to understand that management doesn't ask for more productivity because they want to make more money, but because they are in survival modus?
It's always the same discussion but the employees have to work in normal conditions and nothing more and that's all they ask for and that's how it's going to be.

Ultraliberalism here reaches its limits...and that while Brussels Airport makes tremendous profits it's outrageous I think it's disgusting.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

convair
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Re: Strikes affecting Belgian airports in 2019

Post by convair » 02 Jul 2019, 21:53

lumumba wrote:
02 Jul 2019, 20:07
Passenger wrote:
02 Jul 2019, 19:49
Conti764 wrote:
02 Jul 2019, 17:14


So it's bad management.

Or maybe BAC shouldn't be so cheap. Many years ago, I worked for a subcontractor and every 5 or so years the contract had to be renewed. Each time BAC asked more for less money.
As allways: when a company makes a profit, it's thanks to the employees. When they make a loss, it's bad management. Let me add some more figures:

result: 2017 : -4.745.162 €
result 2016 : -6.455.069 €
result 2015: -5.167.963 €
result 2014: -9.497.838 €
result 2013: -10.293.918 €
result 2012: -350.193 €

- - -

The above figures, and their debt position, doesn't allow Swissport Belgium nv/sa to invest in new equipment, as the unions demand. And maybe the 593 fulltime and 583 parttime employees (31/12/2017) should try to understand that management doesn't ask for more productivity because they want to make more money, but because they are in survival modus?
It's always the same discussion but the employees have to work in normal conditions and nothing more and that's all they ask for and that's how it's going to be.

Ultraliberalism here reaches its limits...and that while Brussels Airport makes tremendous profits it's outrageous I think it's disgusting.
I agree with that.
It may happen that pax endure the consequences of a bagage handlers strike beause BRU is putting such pressure on its sub-contractors that they must accept contracts that make them lose money! BRU should be held accountable in a case like that.

jan_olieslagers
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Re: Strikes affecting Belgian airports in 2019

Post by jan_olieslagers » 02 Jul 2019, 22:05

It is beyond all reason and common sense that this company continues to work at substantial losses, for several years going, with never a profit in between. Surely there must be some kind of hidden agenda? What shareholders continue to pour their money through the drain? In a way I must agree the blame cannot be on poor management: managers are easy to replace, and it would not be hard to find some that are, at least, less incompetent. The deficits/losses seems to be intentional, however queer that may appear.

And yes, in such a negative spiral there will be heavy pressure on the cost of staffing, that is understandable. Yet it would seem to me (without claiming any expertise) that a solid increase in staffing and/or wages would much improve staff motivation, without making losses very much worse - they are catastrophic anyway.

Aren't there laws in BE to forbid selling/operating below cost price? Have they been applied, or at least called upon?

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sn26567
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Re: Strikes affecting Belgian airports in 2019

Post by sn26567 » 02 Jul 2019, 22:44

Swissport being a multinational company, it can be advantageous, from a fiscal point of view, to make losses in some (heavily taxed) countries and to offset those losses by profits in other countries. International finance is a very complicated matter and fiscal engineering a specialist science.
André
ex Sabena #26567

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luchtzak
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Re: Strikes affecting Belgian airports in 2019

Post by luchtzak » 02 Jul 2019, 22:51

I am sorry, but if the figures are as bad as written, then the company should stop operating in Belgium (or at Brussels Airport) and give the opportunity to another handling agent to take over!

result: 2017 : -4.745.162 €
result 2016 : -6.455.069 €
result 2015: -5.167.963 €
result 2014: -9.497.838 €
result 2013: -10.293.918 €
result 2012: -350.193 €

Passenger
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Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Strikes affecting Belgian airports in 2019

Post by Passenger » 02 Jul 2019, 22:53

lumumba wrote:
02 Jul 2019, 20:07
It's always the same discussion but the employees have to work in normal conditions and nothing more and that's all they ask for and that's how it's going to be. Ultraliberalism here reaches its limits...and that while Brussels Airport makes tremendous profits it's outrageous I think it's disgusting.
Mr Lumumba, you sign with "Hasta la victoria siempre". Your Cuban drive obviously hampers you to see what is going on. Actually this is about aviation, you don't have to use this forum to convince people to support the Cuban communist party.

The Swissport issue has nothing to do with "ultraliberalism". It's free market. And Brussels Airport is not involved: handlers depend from airlines, not from airports. It's like Flightlover posted: "...because they offer contracts to customers under their actual cost". That's the only cause for both Swissports' and Aviapartners' financial woes: airlines -LCC's and their competitors- want to cut costs where ever possible, and handling costs are such costs where they (= the airlines) think it's possible. Solution? It has been discussed here before: handlers should take a risk and increase their tariffs. But then, when the airline indeed cancels the contract and switches to the competition, they will very soon have a cash flow problem. Who will then pay the salaries? Unless the competition also raises its fees...

Ansett
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Re: Strikes affecting Belgian airports in 2019

Post by Ansett » 02 Jul 2019, 23:11

Passenger wrote:
02 Jul 2019, 22:53
lumumba wrote:
02 Jul 2019, 20:07
It's always the same discussion but the employees have to work in normal conditions and nothing more and that's all they ask for and that's how it's going to be. Ultraliberalism here reaches its limits...and that while Brussels Airport makes tremendous profits it's outrageous I think it's disgusting.
Mr Lumumba, you sign with "Hasta la victoria siempre". Your Cuban drive obviously hampers you to see what is going on. Actually this is about aviation, you don't have to use this forum to convince people to support the Cuban communist party.

The Swissport issue has nothing to do with "ultraliberalism". It's free market. And Brussels Airport is not involved: handlers depend from airlines, not from airports. It's like Flightlover posted: "...because they offer contracts to customers under their actual cost". That's the only cause for both Swissports' and Aviapartners' financial woes: airlines -LCC's and their competitors- want to cut costs where ever possible, and handling costs are such costs where they (= the airlines) think it's possible. Solution? It has been discussed here before: handlers should take a risk and increase their tariffs. But then, when the airline indeed cancels the contract and switches to the competition, they will very soon have a cash flow problem. Who will then pay the salaries? Unless the competition also raises its fees...
Except for your reaction to lumumba, which I find, to say the least, "out of context" and unecessary, you are right.
Btw, does someone know if competitor Aviapartner has been making a profit over the last years, and how much ?

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lumumba
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Re: Strikes affecting Belgian airports in 2019

Post by lumumba » 03 Jul 2019, 00:23

Passenger wrote:
02 Jul 2019, 22:53
lumumba wrote:
02 Jul 2019, 20:07
It's always the same discussion but the employees have to work in normal conditions and nothing more and that's all they ask for and that's how it's going to be. Ultraliberalism here reaches its limits...and that while Brussels Airport makes tremendous profits it's outrageous I think it's disgusting.
Mr Lumumba, you sign with "Hasta la victoria siempre". Your Cuban drive obviously hampers you to see what is going on. Actually this is about aviation, you don't have to use this forum to convince people to support the Cuban communist party.

The Swissport issue has nothing to do with "ultraliberalism". It's free market. And Brussels Airport is not involved: handlers depend from airlines, not from airports. It's like Flightlover posted: "...because they offer contracts to customers under their actual cost". That's the only cause for both Swissports' and Aviapartners' financial woes: airlines -LCC's and their competitors- want to cut costs where ever possible, and handling costs are such costs where they (= the airlines) think it's possible. Solution? It has been discussed here before: handlers should take a risk and increase their tariffs. But then, when the airline indeed cancels the contract and switches to the competition, they will very soon have a cash flow problem. Who will then pay the salaries? Unless the competition also raises its fees...
From there my quote: Ultraliberalism has reached is limits!
It doesn't work anymore it goes too far we need to put rules again ....

But I know we are not agree but I'm not sure you understand?
Hasta la victoria siempre.

Passenger
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Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Strikes affecting Belgian airports in 2019

Post by Passenger » 03 Jul 2019, 11:29

Ansett wrote:
02 Jul 2019, 23:11
Btw, does someone know if competitor Aviapartner has been making a profit over the last years, and how much ?
Main company Aviapartner Belgium nv/sa: all red figures too, except 2016:
2017: -3.635.453 €
2016: +2.246.213 €
2015: -3.849.775 €
2014: -9.106.577 €
2013: -5.277.357 €
2012: -5.389.850 €

Ansett
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Re: Strikes affecting Belgian airports in 2019

Post by Ansett » 03 Jul 2019, 15:58

Thank you, Passenger.
One wonders how companies that make considerable losses year after year can/may continue to exist !

Homo Aeroportus
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Re: Strikes affecting Belgian airports in 2019

Post by Homo Aeroportus » 03 Jul 2019, 17:21

Ansett wrote:
03 Jul 2019, 15:58
Thank you, Passenger.
One wonders how companies that make considerable losses year after year can/may continue to exist !
As André wrote yesterday, Swissport is a multinational company.
And SwissPort Group based in Zurich is doing well, thank you.

2.99 billion Euros Revenues in 2018 (up 10% over 2017), with an EBITDA of 273 million Euros (up 28%).

http://www.swissport.com/fileadmin/imag ... _RZ_v2.pdf

http://www.swissport.com/fileadmin/down ... ile_v2.pdf


Still waiting for the brave one who will ask the hard question :

What is the driver to this overall low cost race?
Hint : should be written "who", not What.
Hint 2 : answer is plural ;)

H.A.

jan_olieslagers
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Re: Strikes affecting Belgian airports in 2019

Post by jan_olieslagers » 03 Jul 2019, 17:27

A very similar question was asked yesterday evening - by my self - and promptly got an answer pointing at the international operations; and explaining that in an international operation there can be advantages to operate at a loss in one country. I am quite willing to accept that.

There was however no answer to my question
Aren't there laws in BE to forbid selling/operating below cost price? Have they been applied, or at least called upon?

Ansett
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Re: Strikes affecting Belgian airports in 2019

Post by Ansett » 03 Jul 2019, 17:54

Indeed, the multinational structure of the company had been explained already. I had not forgotten that, but my post was too short and not clear enough (sorry).

Unlike you, Jan, I am not willing to accept that multinational corporations use rogue methods to favour their shareholders and exploit their workers.

However, what I was hinting at, is the same as your unanswered question : "aren't there any laws in BE to forbid selling/operating below cost price ? Have they applied, or at least called upon ?"

(And I cannot refrain from referring to the fact that once again we, Belgians (but we may not be the only ones) are "used" and "abused" by a major Swiss corporation...)

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sn26567
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Re: Strikes affecting Belgian airports in 2019

Post by sn26567 » 03 Jul 2019, 18:02

I'm not a lawyer, but maybe the explanation might be that the Belgian law applies only to goods sold in a store, as opposed to services or industrial operations. Again, this is a pure hypothesis on my part.
André
ex Sabena #26567

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