25-31/10/2018 Aviapartner strike at Brussels Airport

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Hail Cyrilin
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Re: 25-31/10/2018 Aviapartner strike at Brussels Airport

Post by Hail Cyrilin »

Correct all departments are on strike check-in, ramp, crago, loadmasters, loadcontrollers, dispatchers, pushback, bag hall,... Management is refusing all constructive negotiations hoping the strike will end.

flightlover
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Re: 25-31/10/2018 Aviapartner strike at Brussels Airport

Post by flightlover »

Jetter wrote: 30 Oct 2018, 13:37
When you strike till a company goes bankrupt you should accept there might be consequences. If you play with fire you might get burned! It would make complete sense for a new employer to take the work-history of candidates into account, and instigating and/or furthering this disproportionate strike doesn't look good on someone's resume.
Is that a problem?? There are CEO's specialized in growing companies that fail and still find a job. Or is every manager better than qualified workers that just don't put up with the BS told to them?

Unlike what you might think you just can't open up a can of new workers that are instantly qualified for these kind of jobs.

Passenger
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Re: 25-31/10/2018 Aviapartner strike at Brussels Airport

Post by Passenger »

Hail Cyrilin wrote: 30 Oct 2018, 16:25 Correct all departments are on strike check-in, ramp, crago, loadmasters, loadcontrollers, dispatchers, pushback, bag hall,... Management is refusing all constructive negotiations hoping the strike will end.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that "constructive negotiations" means that management/ownership has to give in to the majority of the 22 demands from the trade unions?

You know where they don't strike? At Accountancy. Not even the junior klerks are on strike. Those people understand the terrible financial situation. Short term, medium term, long term.

I'm not going to repeat it all in detail, but the external official revisor states that the company cannot survive unless the banks continue to give them credit and unless the rescue plan "TakeOff" will be realized. When management/ownership would now give in to the demands of the trade unions, they drop that recovery plan. And when they do so, they legally have to go to the trade court and ask for protection against debtors (Wet Continuïteit Ondernemingen / Loi Continuïté Entreprises). With the risk that the trade court refuses. Do I need to explain what will happen then?

So basicly, the negociation margin for management/ownership is close to zero. Is there no one within the trade unions own management who can explain this to their heros on the field?

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Vic Diesel
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Re: 25-31/10/2018 Aviapartner strike at Brussels Airport

Post by Vic Diesel »

So in other words, the trade unions just put the knife to the management's throat and demand that it willingly cuts it themselves. Also, I have the impression that with all the demands, the trade unions are just arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
Best regards,
Viktor

(Budapest-born, Vienna-raised, Brussels-based)

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lumumba
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Re: 25-31/10/2018 Aviapartner strike at Brussels Airport

Post by lumumba »

Passenger wrote: 30 Oct 2018, 17:01
Hail Cyrilin wrote: 30 Oct 2018, 16:25 Correct all departments are on strike check-in, ramp, crago, loadmasters, loadcontrollers, dispatchers, pushback, bag hall,... Management is refusing all constructive negotiations hoping the strike will end.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that "constructive negotiations" means that management/ownership has to give in to the majority of the 22 demands from the trade unions?

You know where they don't strike? At Accountancy. Not even the junior klerks are on strike. Those people understand the terrible financial situation. Short term, medium term, long term.

I'm not going to repeat it all in detail, but the external official revisor states that the company cannot survive unless the banks continue to give them credit and unless the rescue plan "TakeOff" will be realized. When management/ownership would now give in to the demands of the trade unions, they drop that recovery plan. And when they do so, they legally have to go to the trade court and ask for protection against debtors (Wet Continuïteit Ondernemingen / Loi Continuïté Entreprises). With the risk that the trade court refuses. Do I need to explain what will happen then?

So basicly, the negociation margin for management/ownership is close to zero. Is there no one within the trade unions own management who can explain this to their heros on the field?
No Passenger no one will,the employees will work for a decent salary and condition nothing more nothing less.
This liberal( in my opinion ultra liberal on this case) world does not give them gifts either.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

Hail Cyrilin
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Joined: 11 Jan 2010, 22:47

Re: 25-31/10/2018 Aviapartner strike at Brussels Airport

Post by Hail Cyrilin »

Passenger wrote: 30 Oct 2018, 17:01
Hail Cyrilin wrote: 30 Oct 2018, 16:25 Correct all departments are on strike check-in, ramp, crago, loadmasters, loadcontrollers, dispatchers, pushback, bag hall,... Management is refusing all constructive negotiations hoping the strike will end.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that "constructive negotiations" means that management/ownership has to give in to the majority of the 22 demands from the trade unions?
No, not at all there are some fundamental problems in the company and the handler buisiness at Brussels Airport. Since Aviapartner is a service providing company the workforce is their product so they should provide decent working conditions for their workforce. Aviapartner has been running for years on the goodwill and hard work of the employees. Most of the employees are not die hard union militants and hate striking. Buit being lied to by the higher management and small changes are starting to affect all persons working for Aviapartner. Currently there are +100 employees on long term sick leave ranging from burn outs to physical ilnesses. Some lower managers (most of them already left the company) even ask union reps to go on strike or do actions because the higher management refuses to listen or hire extra staff.

Also most debts of Aviapartner Belgium are with the 'mother' company (article is in Dutch):
Een hoge insider zegt dat er geen reden is voor veel bezorgdheid over dat wankele financiële huishouden. 'Die schulden moeten niet worden terugbetaald aan de banken, maar aan het moederbedrijf Aviapartner. En zoals het er nu voorstaat, is de Belgische tak de voorbije twaalf maanden uit het rood gebleven.'
Source:https://www.tijd.be/ondernemen/luchtvaa ... 64002.html

convair
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Re: 25-31/10/2018 Aviapartner strike at Brussels Airport

Post by convair »

Established02 wrote: 30 Oct 2018, 10:00 If a new ground handler would step in and have a need to take over ex-Aviapartner staff, they may not necessarily feel obliged to take over those Aviapartner individuals that played a key role in this strike.
Obviously; and it is what usually happens in such a scenario. A new owner/operator will want to avoid the troublemakers whilst making an example for the benefit of the others.

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Vic Diesel
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Re: 25-31/10/2018 Aviapartner strike at Brussels Airport

Post by Vic Diesel »

737MAX wrote: 30 Oct 2018, 17:24 So many critics against these workers on this forum.
So many criticizers who (once again) don't have any idea of what they are talking about.
So many criticizers who have never been on the tarmac of Brussels Airport.
So much ignorance, so much arrogance, so much disrespect. Sad, really sad.

[...]

Everyone can have an opinion, but nobody can judge a situation they don't know.
So, while you are condemning talking about a situation one doesn't know about (which I can agree with), in the first few lines of your comment, you did exactly the same: judging people you have no idea about.

Btw, I completely agree with you that it was indeed the fault and gross ignorance of the management that brought AP so far, I never doubted on that. What I wanted to point out though was the fact that this wildcat strike might contribute to the demise of AP... to a smaller part as the mismanagement, agreed - but still to some extent.
Best regards,
Viktor

(Budapest-born, Vienna-raised, Brussels-based)

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lumumba
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Re: 25-31/10/2018 Aviapartner strike at Brussels Airport

Post by lumumba »

Vic Diesel wrote: 30 Oct 2018, 17:42
737MAX wrote: 30 Oct 2018, 17:24 So many critics against these workers on this forum.
So many criticizers who (once again) don't have any idea of what they are talking about.
So many criticizers who have never been on the tarmac of Brussels Airport.
So much ignorance, so much arrogance, so much disrespect. Sad, really sad.

[...]

Everyone can have an opinion, but nobody can judge a situation they don't know.
So, while you are condemning talking about a situation one doesn't know about (which I can agree with), in the first few lines of your comment, you did exactly the same: judging people you have no idea about.

Btw, I completely agree with you that it was indeed the fault and gross ignorance of the management that brought AP so far, I never doubted on that. What I wanted to point out though was the fact that this wildcat strike might contribute to the demise of AP... to a smaller part as the mismanagement, agreed - but still to some extent.
I think you have to go over what you said before...you are lying to your self!

One of your statement:
Contrary to some others, I willingly state that I don't want to pose as a "Mother Teresa of Strikemongers" - and if I were on HR of a hypothetical new company to step in for the then-bankrupt AP, I would think twice before employing those individuals who were already responsible for strike their employer into bankruptcy once. It is not a question of empathy for those individuals - but a question of protecting all the other employees from such irresponsible hot-heads. Call me what you like for this opinion, I do honestly not give a damn.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

Passenger
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Re: 25-31/10/2018 Aviapartner strike at Brussels Airport

Post by Passenger »

Hail Cyrilin wrote: 30 Oct 2018, 17:30 Also most debts of Aviapartner Belgium are with the 'mother' company (article is in Dutch):
Een hoge insider zegt dat er geen reden is voor veel bezorgdheid over dat wankele financiële huishouden. 'Die schulden moeten niet worden terugbetaald aan de banken, maar aan het moederbedrijf Aviapartner. En zoals het er nu voorstaat, is de Belgische tak de voorbije twaalf maanden uit het rood gebleven.'
Source:https://www.tijd.be/ondernemen/luchtvaa ... 64002.html
No worries? That is obviously factually contradicted by their annual account 2017. Unless the results for 1Q2018 were spectacular better, the company is at risk (Title De Tijd: "Aviapartner's finances are bad"). The debts that the anonymous "high ranked insider" talks about, are only the long term debts (over 1 year).

From the annual account 2017:
Debts on max. 1 year:
2.950.004: banks
13.966.989: suppliers
8.086.211: salaries and related taxes
133.544: taxes
Debts, longer then one year:
22.650.620: "other loans"
Counter-account:
11.555.825 Handelsvorderingen (allow me to translate that into "we're awaiting payment for...")

Mabe "the high ranked insider" from De Tijd can provide some details about the estimated cost of this ongoing strike? Just a general estimation, in millions, is enough.

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lumumba
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Re: 25-31/10/2018 Aviapartner strike at Brussels Airport

Post by lumumba »

Flying Scout wrote: 30 Oct 2018, 18:28
lumumba wrote: 30 Oct 2018, 17:53 One of your statement:
Contrary to some others, I willingly state that I don't want to pose as a "Mother Teresa of Strikemongers" - and if I were on HR of a hypothetical new company to step in for the then-bankrupt AP, I would think twice before employing those individuals who were already responsible for strike their employer into bankruptcy once. It is not a question of empathy for those individuals - but a question of protecting all the other employees from such irresponsible hot-heads. Call me what you like for this opinion, I do honestly not give a damn.
It aren't the employees who run the company. It's a bad management if they accept contracts in which they have to employ people that they can't pay the proposed wage.
I'm agree this is a statement of Vic Diesel not mine.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

Hail Cyrilin
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Re: 25-31/10/2018 Aviapartner strike at Brussels Airport

Post by Hail Cyrilin »

Yves Nuyts said yesterday on vrt news (in Dutch):
ar. Er is een zeer grote prijzenslag geweest, dat brengt met zich mee dat onze rendabiliteit jarenlang onder druk heeft gestaan. We zijn 15 maanden geleden begonnen met het rechtzetten van de financiën en dat lijkt te lukken. Tegen het einde van het jaar kunnen we misschien weer in de zwarte cijfers zitten."
Source: https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2018/10/29 ... espreekba/

Most of the higer Belgian management is brand new and most don't last for more than 1-2 years. One recent idea was to start loading airplanes on the left side because alot of other activities (like fueling, catering etc) happen on the right hand side. I don't mind change and new idea's but when the management doesn't know how their core acitvities work that's when you have a big problem ! I've been working at the airport since 2009 and every year we hear the same stories: don't strike or AVP will go bankrupt. I agree the numbers don't look good, and maybe it's better to file for bankruptcy. This will be devastating to most of the higher management and even the holding of AVP which is also located on the 5th floor at BRU airport. Most employees will be needed and won't lose their job. Alot of veteran workers have already left in the last year because of the downward spiral. The core of the strike is for a good reason, however since this is a very high profile strike other union members start making this political or for their own benefits and that's bad.

flightlover
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Re: 25-31/10/2018 Aviapartner strike at Brussels Airport

Post by flightlover »

Hail Cyrilin wrote: 30 Oct 2018, 18:49 Yves Nuyts said yesterday on vrt news (in Dutch):
ar. Er is een zeer grote prijzenslag geweest, dat brengt met zich mee dat onze rendabiliteit jarenlang onder druk heeft gestaan. We zijn 15 maanden geleden begonnen met het rechtzetten van de financiën en dat lijkt te lukken. Tegen het einde van het jaar kunnen we misschien weer in de zwarte cijfers zitten."
Source: https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2018/10/29 ... espreekba/

Most of the higer Belgian management is brand new and most don't last for more than 1-2 years. One recent idea was to start loading airplanes on the left side because alot of other activities (like fueling, catering etc) happen on the right hand side. I don't mind change and new idea's but when the management doesn't know how their core acitvities work that's when you have a big problem ! I've been working at the airport since 2009 and every year we hear the same stories: don't strike or AVP will go bankrupt. I agree the numbers don't look good, and maybe it's better to file for bankruptcy. This will be devastating to most of the higher management and even the holding of AVP which is also located on the 5th floor at BRU airport. Most employees will be needed and won't lose their job. Alot of veteran workers have already left in the last year because of the downward spiral. The core of the strike is for a good reason, however since this is a very high profile strike other union members start making this political or for their own benefits and that's bad.
Let me get the tin opener to create the hold doors :lol: :lol:

Hail Cyrilin
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Re: 25-31/10/2018 Aviapartner strike at Brussels Airport

Post by Hail Cyrilin »

Talking about job creation ;)

Passenger
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Re: 25-31/10/2018 Aviapartner strike at Brussels Airport

Post by Passenger »

The trade union delegation: 6 sub-delegations, 25 people in total! Just a few more, and they need to appoint a union delegate to check if these negociators don't have to work to hard, have enough toilet breaks, get paid for their overtime, ...

Duke
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Re: 25-31/10/2018 Aviapartner strike at Brussels Airport

Post by Duke »

As much as I understand the bad situation of the Aviapartner employees, I do not understand the blindness of the consequences of the strikes.
I booked a (very) short trip of 4 days with Tui from Ostend for my wife, 3 of my children and myself, on November 1st, and paid about € 2.500,00 to Tui.
I booked through the website of Tui, and paid the prices that were indicated. I never asked for a reduction, nor did I try to obtain a bargain price, I just paid what I was asked to pay.
Sorry, but as a customer I'm not supposed to know who does the handling of my flight, nor at what price this happens... I have no relation to any of the handling companies, I just booked a flight with an airline company.
If the situation of Aviapartner is really as bad as it is communicated in the press (and I trust the press is giving correct information), then the problem is more with the airlines than with the customers of the airlines... And the customer is the victim of that situation....
In two days, we are scheduled to fly... Up to now, flights from Ostend seem to operate quite normally...
But can you explain 3 young kids that there is a chance that the trip will not take place?
I'm working very hard myself (not in the aviation world..), and I was glad to be able to take 4 days off...
If the flight would be canceled, I'd probably get reimbursed, but my little 4 days of holiday will be gone... Being reimbursed is only a detail... it doesn't replace my short holiday break... and I'm not at all responsible for the relations between an airline and the handling companies... more over, I'm totally dependent on those handling companies, as I have no choice at all about those handling companies...
If the situation is that bad (and I'm willing to believe it is), you make of high number of totally innocent people the victim of that situation, and people who are in no way in a position to change this situation.
Moreover, those people might not be willing to book another flight again in a Belgian airport, knowing that alternatives are being offered more and more at foreign airports that are not too far away (Lille, Eindhoven, Beauvais, Dusseldorf...), so in the end the situation will be worse than before.
Best regards,

Duke

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Vic Diesel
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Re: 25-31/10/2018 Aviapartner strike at Brussels Airport

Post by Vic Diesel »

Hail Cyrilin wrote: 30 Oct 2018, 18:49Most of the higer Belgian management is brand new and most don't last for more than 1-2 years. One recent idea was to start loading airplanes on the left side because alot of other activities (like fueling, catering etc) happen on the right hand side. I don't mind change and new idea's but when the management doesn't know how their core acitvities work that's when you have a big problem ! I've been working at the airport since 2009 and every year we hear the same stories: don't strike or AVP will go bankrupt. I agree the numbers don't look good, and maybe it's better to file for bankruptcy. This will be devastating to most of the higher management and even the holding of AVP which is also located on the 5th floor at BRU airport. Most employees will be needed and won't lose their job. Alot of veteran workers have already left in the last year because of the downward spiral. The core of the strike is for a good reason, however since this is a very high profile strike other union members start making this political or for their own benefits and that's bad.
COuldn't put it better.

Btw: load planes from the left side: are they f*cking kidding? Perfect example of management having no clue of their own business. But then again, it is no surprise AVP ended up like this: with those managers, it is inevitable.
Best regards,
Viktor

(Budapest-born, Vienna-raised, Brussels-based)

ostair
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Re: 25-31/10/2018 Aviapartner strike at Brussels Airport

Post by ostair »

I read that TUI is loading their own planes with people who are qualified to handle the equipment.
Anyone can load bags in a plane but a towback truck?
Can someone explain this to me.

Which equipment are they using?

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Vic Diesel
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Re: 25-31/10/2018 Aviapartner strike at Brussels Airport

Post by Vic Diesel »

ostair wrote: 30 Oct 2018, 22:16 I read that TUI is loading their own planes with people who are qualified to handle the equipment.
OMG, I can see Michael O'Leary reading this and saying: "THAT is an idea how we call do it: having our planes loaded by the passengers themselves! They only have to attend a course (and pay Ryanair a nice sum for it) and they can load their own luggage prior and after the flight." :lol:

And yes, that WAS sarcasm. ;)
Best regards,
Viktor

(Budapest-born, Vienna-raised, Brussels-based)

Hail Cyrilin
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Re: 25-31/10/2018 Aviapartner strike at Brussels Airport

Post by Hail Cyrilin »

ostair wrote: 30 Oct 2018, 22:16 I read that TUI is loading their own planes with people who are qualified to handle the equipment.
Anyone can load bags in a plane but a towback truck?
Can someone explain this to me.

Which equipment are they using?
It’s tec4jets who’s doing the pushbacks.

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