Ryanair cabin crew strike 25 and 26 July 2018 - cockpit strike 10 August

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Ryanair cabin crew strike 25 and 26 July 2018 - cockpit strike 10 August

Post by sean1982 » 05 Jul 2018, 13:25

On 25th and 26th of july Belgian, italian, Spanish and Portugese based Ryanair cabin crew will go on strike. Expect a full meltdown of all services that are crewed by these crews.

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Re: Strikes affecting Belgian airports in 2018

Post by Passenger » 07 Jul 2018, 12:30

On 5th July 2018, and as a reply to the announcement by different trade unions of a strike for 25-26 July 2018 at Ryanair, Belgian deputy prime minister and minister of Employment, Economy and Consumer Affairs Kris Peeters issued a press statement that will have severe consequences for future strikes in Belgian aviation. See this article on the homepage:
https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/ryana ... ed-strike/

Minister Kris Peeters said in his press release from 5th July 2018: "...A strike is not a form of force majeure. Travellers may therefore choose between a refund or an alternative flight if their booked flight is cancelled due to the strike. And when the passengers are notified only within 14 days before their flight date, they are entitled to the indemnity as per 261/2004..."
Source (with full text down below here):
http://www.krispeeters.be/portfolio/min ... anzien-van
and
http://www.krispeeters.be/sites/default ... yanair.pdf

The above statement from minister Peeters - "a strike is not a form of force majeure" - means that all passengers can now demand the indemnity (250€-400€-600€) when there is a strike at an airline.

Of course strikes by public services (ATC, Customs, Police, Fire Brigade) are still force majeure because they are beyond control of airlines. And there is jurisprudence at Belgian labour courts that a wildcat strike is also force majeure ("wildcat strike" = unexpected, unforeseen and without notice).


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Copy/paste of the full text - apparently only available in Dutch:

Vice-eersteminister en minister van Consumentenzaken Kris Peeters zal contact opnemen met het management van Ryanair om te verzekeren dat de rechten van reizigers die getroffen worden door de aangekondigde staking van 25 en 26 juli, gevrijwaard blijven. Kris Peeters: “Een staking is geen vorm van overmacht. Reizigers mogen dus kiezen tussen een terugbetaling of een alternatieve vlucht als blijkt dat hun geboekte vlucht omwille van de staking niet plaatsvindt. Ik laat contact opnemen met Ryanair om te verzekeren dat de procedure correct wordt gevolgd en mijn diensten zullen dit in de komende weken van zeer nabij opvolgen”.

Wanneer een vlucht geannuleerd wordt, dan moeten luchtvaartmaatschappijen zich aan volgende regels houden:
1°. Overeenkomstig de Europese Verordening (EG) nr. 261/2004 m.b.t. de rechten van de luchtvaartpassagiers moet de luchtvaartmaatschappij in geval van annulering, de reizigers (individueel) verwittigen. Dit geldt evengoed bij een staking.
2°. Wanneer geen overmacht kan ingeroepen worden (en dat is bij een staking volgens de Europese rechtspraak inderdaad niet het geval), dan moet de maatschappij:
- ofwel de vlucht terug te betalen
- ofwel een alternatieve vlucht aan te bieden.
Het is de reiziger die kiest tussen deze.
3°. Als de reiziger op minder dan 14 dagen voor de voorziene datum van de vlucht wordt verwittigd van de annulering, dan heeft hij recht op een compensatie bovenop de terugbetaling of de alternatieve vlucht. De hoogte van de compensatie is afhankelijk van de afstand. Een persmededeling die de staking aankondigt, is niet voldoende. Het moet gaan om een persoonlijke communicatie.
Detailinformatie vindt de reiziger terug op de website van de FOD Mobiliteit:
https://mobilit.belgium.be/nl/luchtvaar ... annulering

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Re: Strikes affecting Belgian airports in 2018

Post by sn26567 » 07 Jul 2018, 19:16

If the flight is cancelled more than 14 days in advance, I'm afraid that passengers can only ask for reimbursement...
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Re: Strikes affecting Belgian airports in 2018

Post by Passenger » 07 Jul 2018, 20:17

sn26567 wrote:
07 Jul 2018, 19:16
If the flight is cancelled more than 14 days in advance, I'm afraid that passengers can only ask for reimbursement...
That's what minister Peeters also adjusts: when an airline cancels and there is no force majeure, it's up to the passengers to choose between a rerouting and a reimbursement.

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Re: Strikes affecting Belgian airports in 2018

Post by sn26567 » 18 Jul 2018, 17:13

Ryanair cancels 50 of its 160 daily flights to/from Belgian airports on both 25 and 26 July, due to a strike of some cabin crew.

https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/ryana ... ew-trikes/
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Re: Strikes affecting Belgian airports in 2018

Post by Passenger » 20 Jul 2018, 14:41

Stop bullying the passengers!

Open letter from Luk De Wilde, senior aviation journalist:
https://travel-magazine.be/opiniestuk-s ... te-pesten/

free translation:
https://translate.google.com/

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Re: Strikes affecting Belgian airports in 2018

Post by sean1982 » 22 Jul 2018, 13:53

Passenger wrote:
20 Jul 2018, 14:41
Stop bullying the passengers!

Open letter from Luk De Wilde, senior aviation journalist:
https://travel-magazine.be/opiniestuk-s ... te-pesten/

free translation:
https://translate.google.com/
Open letter to Luk De Wilde:

This sounds more than trying to promote a certain political agenda then publishing an opinion. Having worked for Ryanair myself for about 13 years I know what I’m talking about. In those 13 years I saw the working conditions decrease year by year. For years I had no right to social security. When I got sick, I was unlucky, as I wouldn’t have a wage at the end of the month. And you, Mr De Wilde, are prepared to defend this kind of behaviour from a multinational just for some cheap tickets? I have seen colleagues having to survive on 20 packs of spaghetti and a bottle of ketchup in Brussels because it was all they could afford during winter. And you defend this? Being up close to internal negotiations directly with the company for 13 years we got nowhere. Every year we earned less, lost perks and worked more. No Mr De Wilde, it has nothing to do with only union recognition who are looking for a fresh well of money. It is about a highly nescessary protection of the employees who are working in conditions far below the minimum in most EU countries.

If you want to blame anyone on bullying passengers, you need to be in Dublin, where for at least 15 years no one listened to their employees.

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Re: Strikes affecting Belgian airports in 2018

Post by jan_olieslagers » 22 Jul 2018, 14:08

I thought most RyanAir staff were self-employed? At least the pilots, and cabin crew probably also? They can't be called employees, then. And (for this once :) ) that is more than vocabulary nitpicking. For one thing, self-employed workers are not welcome in the unions, at the contrary, at least in Belgium.

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Re: Strikes affecting Belgian airports in 2018

Post by sean1982 » 22 Jul 2018, 14:16

jan_olieslagers wrote:
22 Jul 2018, 14:08
I thought most RyanAir staff were self-employed? At least the pilots, and cabin crew probably also? They can't be called employees, then. And (for this once :) ) that is more than vocabulary nitpicking. For one thing, self-employed workers are not welcome in the unions, at the contrary, at least in Belgium.
Nope, cabin crew arent

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Re: Strikes affecting Belgian airports in 2018

Post by Passenger » 22 Jul 2018, 17:39

sean1982 wrote:
22 Jul 2018, 13:53
Passenger wrote:
20 Jul 2018, 14:41
Stop bullying the passengers!
Open letter from Luk De Wilde, senior aviation journalist:
https://travel-magazine.be/opiniestuk-s ... te-pesten/
Open letter to Luk De Wilde:

This sounds more than trying to promote a certain political agenda then publishing an opinion. Having worked for Ryanair myself for about 13 years I know what I’m talking about. In those 13 years I saw the working conditions decrease year by year. For years I had no right to social security. When I got sick, I was unlucky, as I wouldn’t have a wage at the end of the month. And you, Mr De Wilde, are prepared to defend this kind of behaviour from a multinational just for some cheap tickets? I have seen colleagues having to survive on 20 packs of spaghetti and a bottle of ketchup in Brussels because it was all they could afford during winter. And you defend this? Being up close to internal negotiations directly with the company for 13 years we got nowhere. Every year we earned less, lost perks and worked more. No Mr De Wilde, it has nothing to do with only union recognition who are looking for a fresh well of money. It is about a highly nescessary protection of the employees who are working in conditions far below the minimum in most EU countries.

If you want to blame anyone on bullying passengers, you need to be in Dublin, where for at least 15 years no one listened to their employees.
It seems you haven't read what Luk De Wilde wrote. He did not defend Ryanair's managements' behaviour at all. And he did not mention that the main reason is because tickets are cheap (he didn't use the phrase "cheap tickets" at all). What Luk De Wilde wrote, and to which you don't reply at all in your Open Letter, is: trade unions, stop using passengers in your dispute with Ryanair's management. And what he also wrote, is that the aim of this forthcoming strike is not the cabin crew working conditions: it's about the power of the trade unions themselves.

That no one in Dublin has listened to the employees may be true, but that is no reason to bully passengers. The trade unions cause damage to passengers, and the trade unions know no one will reimburse them. The trade unions know that Ryanair doens't even respects the basic principle from EU261/2004: passengers shall be offered a return flight to the first point of departure, at the earliest opportunity. Latest report in the Flemish press: a family has to shorten their holiday at Tenerife from 14 days to 10 days because Ryanair refuses to rebook them and refuses to give them any compensation at all. Imagine TUI would do this: this forum would explode. But when Ryanair does this, you shoot at the messenger (Luk De Wilde in this case).

You want to put pressure on Ryanair? Deflate O'Leary's car. Put glue in his door lock. Phone 3 times per minute to Kenny Jacobs. Refuse to sell scratch lottery cards. Refuse to sell drinks onboard. Refuse to charge for overweight luggage. Load fuel for a possible diversion to Cancun. Whatever. But don't bully the passengers with your social conflict.

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Re: Strikes affecting Belgian airports in 2018

Post by sn26567 » 22 Jul 2018, 18:50

Passenger wrote:
22 Jul 2018, 17:39
You want to put pressure on Ryanair? Deflate O'Leary's car. Put glue in his door lock. Phone 3 times per minute to Kenny Jacobs. Refuse to sell scratch lottery cards. Refuse to sell drinks onboard. Refuse to charge for overweight luggage. Load fuel for a possible diversion to Cancun. Whatever. But don't bully the passengers with your social conflict.
I'm afraid that the cabin crew who would dare to do that would be fired on the spot, like the Spanish cabin crew who refused to work after more than 12 hours on duty, with the agreement of their captain.
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Re: Strikes affecting Belgian airports in 2018

Post by sean1982 » 22 Jul 2018, 19:06

sn26567 wrote:
22 Jul 2018, 18:50
Passenger wrote:
22 Jul 2018, 17:39
You want to put pressure on Ryanair? Deflate O'Leary's car. Put glue in his door lock. Phone 3 times per minute to Kenny Jacobs. Refuse to sell scratch lottery cards. Refuse to sell drinks onboard. Refuse to charge for overweight luggage. Load fuel for a possible diversion to Cancun. Whatever. But don't bully the passengers with your social conflict.
I'm afraid that the cabin crew who would dare to do that would be fired on the spot, like the Spanish cabin crew who refused to work after more than 12 hours on duty, with the agreement of their captain.
Thank you André. Passenger, what you write is not only laughable, on top of that its a criminal offence. I completely agree that the customer should be the last one to be affected, HOWEVER, if after more than 15 years!! talks are getting nowhere, I think they’ve waited long enough. That Ryanair management does not want to compensate that unfortunate family is NOT the crew’s fault, nor is it their fault that there is a complete unwillingness for management to hold meaningfull talks.

If Mr de Wilde wants to write an opinion, thats his full right, however it is totally based on hearsay and lacks factual information. If the messenger is wrong on All accounts its my right to tell him so (which I did on twitter)

PS: its not my social conflict, I dont work for them.

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Strikes affecting Belgian airports in 2018

Post by Passenger » 23 Jul 2018, 10:47

sean1982 wrote:
22 Jul 2018, 19:06
sn26567 wrote:
22 Jul 2018, 18:50
I'm afraid that the cabin crew who would dare to do that would be fired on the spot, like the Spanish cabin crew who refused to work after more than 12 hours on duty, with the agreement of their captain.
Thank you André. Passenger, what you write is not only laughable, on top of that its a criminal offence.
Of course. The trade unions and the cabin crew cause for millions of damage to both the airline and the passengers, and I'm the criminal because I suggest that deflating the tyres on O'Leary's car would help as much as their strike.

Both the trade unions and the crew know that Ryanair doesn't respect EU-Rule 261/2004, and that therefore a strike will cause financial damage to passengers. You don't call a full strike then. You look for some other action that will hurt only management/owners. Or you leave that company.

Latest example: a press report from passengers, last Saturday: "we haven't been advised that our flight was cancelled - we had to find it out ourselves on the internet. We then have contacted Ryanair, but they could not re-route us. They will refund our tickets, but we now have to buy more expensive tickets".

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Re: Strikes affecting Belgian airports in 2018

Post by sean1982 » 23 Jul 2018, 10:59

Passenger wrote:
23 Jul 2018, 10:47


Both the trade unions and the crew know that Ryanair doesn't respect EU-Rule 261/2004, and that therefore a strike will cause financial damage to passengers. You don't call a full strike then. You look for some other action that will hurt only management/owners. Or you leave that company.

Latest example: a press report from passengers, last Saturday: "we haven't been advised that our flight was cancelled - we had to find it out ourselves on the internet. We then have contacted Ryanair, but they could not re-route us. They will refund our tickets, but we now have to buy more expensive tickets".

Going on strike is a legal right, putting glue in someone’s lock and deflating their tires is not only childish but also illegal

Again, that's not the crew's fault, Dublin is bullying passengers, not them. 15 years of patience is enough.

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Re: Strikes affecting Belgian airports in 2018

Post by flightlover » 23 Jul 2018, 11:48

Passenger wrote:
23 Jul 2018, 10:47
sean1982 wrote:
22 Jul 2018, 19:06
sn26567 wrote:
22 Jul 2018, 18:50
I'm afraid that the cabin crew who would dare to do that would be fired on the spot, like the Spanish cabin crew who refused to work after more than 12 hours on duty, with the agreement of their captain.
Thank you André. Passenger, what you write is not only laughable, on top of that its a criminal offence.
Of course. The trade unions and the cabin crew cause for millions of damage to both the airline and the passengers, and I'm the criminal because I suggest that deflating the tyres on O'Leary's car would help as much as their strike.

Both the trade unions and the crew know that Ryanair doesn't respect EU-Rule 261/2004, and that therefore a strike will cause financial damage to passengers. You don't call a full strike then. You look for some other action that will hurt only management/owners. Or you leave that company.

Latest example: a press report from passengers, last Saturday: "we haven't been advised that our flight was cancelled - we had to find it out ourselves on the internet. We then have contacted Ryanair, but they could not re-route us. They will refund our tickets, but we now have to buy more expensive tickets".
Don't forget that Ryanair has been shamed publicly more than once on their stance against the EU-Rule 261/2004. So the passengers should not be surprised that they loose money because Ryanair is not willing to respect basic norms in social negotiations. But no, why should they be blamed for the result of their hunger for low fares.

It's easy to blame the other without having in mind what they do themselves.

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Re: Strikes affecting Belgian airports in 2018

Post by Ozzie1969 » 23 Jul 2018, 13:27

Why aren't authorities throughout Europe fining Ryanair for illegal practices? Why do they allow them to fly in the first place?

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Re: Strikes affecting Belgian airports in 2018

Post by sn26567 » 23 Jul 2018, 14:06

Ryanair announced 31% cancellations in Belgium on 25-26 July. According to documents seen by La Libre Belgique, it will be 70% in Brussels and 50% in Charleroi. Some passengers will have a big surprise!

Meanwhile Ryanair has brought cabin crew from foreign countries to Belgium to help filling the voids...
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Re: Ryanair cabin crew strike 25 and 26 July 2018

Post by Aerofool » 24 Jul 2018, 12:23

Press release Ryanair:
"Ryanair To Cancel Up To 300 Of 2,400 Daily Flights Next Wed 25 And Thurs 26 To Minimise Disruption To Customers From Unnecessary Strikes By Some Cabin Crew In Belgium, Portugal & Spain."

– Up to 200 of over 830 daily Ryanair flights to/from Spain (24%)
– Up to 50 of over 180 daily Ryanair flights to/from Portugal (27%)
– Up to 50 of over 160 daily Ryanair flights to/from Belgium (31%)
– Up to 300 of over 2,400 daily Ryanair flights all over Europe (12%)

Full press release:
https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/ryana ... ew-trikes/

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Re: Ryanair cabin crew strike 25 and 26 July 2018

Post by luchtzak » 24 Jul 2018, 12:24

Ryanair insists that a cabin crew strike is an exceptional circumstance and will not pay a financial compensation: https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/ryana ... pensation/

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Re: Ryanair cabin crew strike 25 and 26 July 2018

Post by Passenger » 24 Jul 2018, 13:06

luchtzak wrote:
24 Jul 2018, 12:24
Ryanair insists that a cabin crew strike is an exceptional circumstance and will not pay a financial compensation: https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/ryana ... pensation/
What Ryanair says, is utterly bullshit. There might have been a bit of doubt till a few months ago that a strike by own staff is force majeure. But as Test-Aankoop/Test-Achats explained: there is European jurisprudence now that own strike is no force majeure (*).

Ryanair probably refers to the second part of initial remark (14) from EU-Rule 261/2004, but Ryanair ignores what is written in that same (14) about extraordinary circumstances:

"...As under the Montreal Convention, obligations on operating air carriers should be limited or excluded in cases where an event has been caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken. Such circumstances may, in particular, occur in cases of political instability, meteorological conditions incompatible with the operation of the flight concerned, security risks, unexpected flight safety shortcomings and strikes that affect the operation of an operating air carrier..."

EU judges have ruled that "strikes that affect the operation of an operating air carrier" refers to a strike by public servants (like the Fire Brigade). But the EU judges have ruled that "if all reasonable measures had been taken" is not the case with a strike by own staff (**). Specially not here, were "recognizion of the local unions by management" was one of the leading demands for the strike. Thus, it was easy for Ryanair to avoid the strike with a reasonable measure: by recognizing the local trade unions.

The reason why Ryanair hides itself behind "extraordinary circumstances", is because the scale of these strikes and the number of affected passengers are that high, that they risk to pay Tens of millions, just for the 250-400 Euro indemnity.

- - -

(*) The same principle applies for the recent strike by Brussels Airlines pilots, but that discussion is something for another topic. And the basic demands from the pilots were different, hence Brussels Airlines could refer to "reasonable measures".

(**) There is jurisprudence in labour courts that only a wildcat strike is force majeure. With "wildcat strike" being a sudden strike without warning or legal call, no previous warning signs, ...

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