Air Belgium in 2018

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TLspotting
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by TLspotting » 17 Nov 2018, 18:39

And if they need €4 mln to just set up the relaunch of the ops, without touching the capital?
I'm Thibault Lapers, spotter in Belgium for now 3 years, but not yet across the world and a huuuuuge aviation geek ! Join me on Facebook & Twitter @TLspotting

Passenger
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by Passenger » 17 Nov 2018, 21:11

TLspotting wrote:
17 Nov 2018, 18:39
And if they need €4 mln to just set up the relaunch of the ops, without touching the capital?
Passiva on their balance sheet: the capital is 20 mio € and remains 20 mio € (until a capital raise or a capital decrease). Capitaux propres (eigen vermogen): we don't know, but there was that alert few weeks ago that it was going down.

This loan request looks like they don't have enough Activa = they need more valeurs disponibles (liquide middelen) for short term debts/payments. Reason? No idea: maybe Air France is late with their ACMI payments, maybe British Airways is. Unfortunaetly, it may also be more serious = that much more money goes out then the money that comes in.

But what L'Echo writes about that new Chinese touroperator (aka investor aka administrator) is going to pay it back, is weird.

N77014
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by N77014 » 18 Nov 2018, 11:10

I understand Air Belgium stopped offering scheduled flights, at least for now, and concentrates on ACMI. But do we have any idea of the utilization rate of their planes, must be incredibly low, no ? Any idea in % ? Except for a few weeks AF and BA business, and some ocassional other missions, what are those planes doing ? Must cost tons of money, without consistent income, or what do I miss ?

Desert Rat
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by Desert Rat » 18 Nov 2018, 14:29

:roll:

Acid-drop
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by Acid-drop » 18 Nov 2018, 16:21

Its a short term "bridge" loan... waiting for chineese money, if i understood correctly.
My messages reflect my personal opinion which may be different than yours. I beleive a forum is made to create a debate so I encourage people to express themselves, the way they want, with the ideas they want. I expect the same understanding in return.

nordikcam
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by nordikcam » 18 Nov 2018, 18:15

N77014 wrote:
18 Nov 2018, 11:10
I understand Air Belgium stopped offering scheduled flights, at least for now, and concentrates on ACMI. But do we have any idea of the utilization rate of their planes, must be incredibly low, no ? Any idea in % ? Except for a few weeks AF and BA business, and some ocassional other missions, what are those planes doing ? Must cost tons of money, without consistent income, or what do I miss ?
What are the current ACMI contracts?

TLspotting
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by TLspotting » 18 Nov 2018, 18:15

I'm Thibault Lapers, spotter in Belgium for now 3 years, but not yet across the world and a huuuuuge aviation geek ! Join me on Facebook & Twitter @TLspotting

TLspotting
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by TLspotting » 18 Nov 2018, 18:16

nordikcam wrote:
18 Nov 2018, 18:15
N77014 wrote:
18 Nov 2018, 11:10
I understand Air Belgium stopped offering scheduled flights, at least for now, and concentrates on ACMI. But do we have any idea of the utilization rate of their planes, must be incredibly low, no ? Any idea in % ? Except for a few weeks AF and BA business, and some ocassional other missions, what are those planes doing ? Must cost tons of money, without consistent income, or what do I miss ?
What are the current ACMI contracts?
There's one for BA, and another one on the way for December. I will tell more in a few days.
I'm Thibault Lapers, spotter in Belgium for now 3 years, but not yet across the world and a huuuuuge aviation geek ! Join me on Facebook & Twitter @TLspotting

N77014
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by N77014 » 18 Nov 2018, 18:45

So that is one and a half active out of four, right ? Cannot be sustainable, can it ? And what with those crew members, can they cope with almost no flying time ?

Flyingknight
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by Flyingknight » 18 Nov 2018, 21:38

Very sad to see these happings. So nice morivated crews, but crap management, just looking on their own pockets. Have seen it, didn’t believe it. Hope all the best for the crews!

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sn26567
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by sn26567 » 18 Nov 2018, 23:33

Flyingknight wrote:
18 Nov 2018, 21:38
Very sad to see these happings. So nice motivated crews, but crap management, just looking on their own pockets. Have seen it, didn’t believe it. Hope all the best for the crews!
Crap management? The CEO put money from his own pocket into the company!
André
ex Sabena #26567

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Atlantis
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by Atlantis » 19 Nov 2018, 12:23

sn26567 wrote:
18 Nov 2018, 23:33
Flyingknight wrote:
18 Nov 2018, 21:38
Very sad to see these happings. So nice motivated crews, but crap management, just looking on their own pockets. Have seen it, didn’t believe it. Hope all the best for the crews!
Crap management? The CEO put money from his own pocket into the company!
Do you really believe that he is using money from his own private bank account???? nobody is doing this in business. And for sure not in aviation and for sure not in Belgian aviation where you know in advance that it will be extremely difficult.
So, money from his own pocket where he is also paying for food, credit, etc, forget it

Darjeeling
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by Darjeeling » 19 Nov 2018, 14:38

4 millions Euros barely pays one month of leasing cost for three A340, maybe four...

737MAX
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by 737MAX » 19 Nov 2018, 15:36

Darjeeling wrote:
19 Nov 2018, 14:38
4 millions Euros barely pays one month of leasing cost for three A340, maybe four...
Do you seriously believe the leasing cost of an A340 would be around a million €/month?
Ermm... you're waaaaaay out :shock: :shock:

And these A340's are most likely to be paid per block hour flown. Like many other old aircrafts nobody wants to use...

Matt
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by Matt » 19 Nov 2018, 16:28

sn26567 wrote:
18 Nov 2018, 23:33
Flyingknight wrote:
18 Nov 2018, 21:38
Very sad to see these happings. So nice motivated crews, but crap management, just looking on their own pockets. Have seen it, didn’t believe it. Hope all the best for the crews!
Crap management? The CEO put money from his own pocket into the company!
Well, the public image around Air Belgium is already bad. That is mainly due to poor management. Own money or not, he is doing a piss poor job...

Passenger
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by Passenger » 19 Nov 2018, 16:57

On 16th November, there was that terrible article in L'Echo:
https://www.lecho.be/entreprises/aviati ... 70336.html

And yesterday, Pagtour has sent out an even worse e-mail newsletter towards the travel trade:
http://pagtour.info/crash-evite-de-just ... r-belgium/

Just one quote from Pagtour: "...Il se dit (mais sans la moindre confirmation commerciale) que des vols reprendraient lors de la prochaine saison aéronautique qui démarre le 1er avril prochain..".

There is no problem that the Air Belgium team remains optimistic. But with above press coverage, realism should now preveal. Thus not "bookings as from 1st April 2019 are coming in", but "our actual bookings for April 2019 stand at ..% only". And when they look at that one figure, they have to realize they have to change their ongoing plan B.

Shonix
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by Shonix » 20 Nov 2018, 11:44

RTBF's evening news report on Air Belgium - 19/11/2018

https://www.rtbf.be/auvio/emissions/det ... 19h30?id=5#

Starts at 16'57''.

Journalist wanted to ask questions to AB's representatives. Only answer received: "Air Belgium focuses on the future".

Additional RTBF's press coverage: https://www.rtbf.be/info/economie/detai ... d=10077081

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luchtzak
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by luchtzak » 23 Nov 2018, 22:59

TLspotting wrote:
03 Oct 2018, 17:38
AB is going to fly for BA from Heathrow to Dubai as from 1/2 November until 14/15 December 2018.

BA105 LHR - DXB 20:40 - 07:55+1 1234567 A343
BA104 DXB - LHR 14:00 - 18:00 1234567 A343
ACMI flights extended until end of January 2019.

TLspotting
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by TLspotting » 23 Nov 2018, 23:06

luchtzak wrote:
23 Nov 2018, 22:59
TLspotting wrote:
03 Oct 2018, 17:38
AB is going to fly for BA from Heathrow to Dubai as from 1/2 November until 14/15 December 2018.

BA105 LHR - DXB 20:40 - 07:55+1 1234567 A343
BA104 DXB - LHR 14:00 - 18:00 1234567 A343
ACMI flights extended until end of January 2019.
Thank you TLspotting :P

Even further, until 30/31 March 2019 when it is going to be changed into AUH.

Same schedule, except for the last LHR-DXB-LHR flight due to time change :
BA105 LHR - DXB 20:40 - 07:45+1 A343 OO-AB* 30/03/2018
BA104 DXB - LHR 13:15 - 18:00 A343 OO-AB* 31/03/2018

Another news should be announced soon. I keep you in touch!
Last edited by TLspotting on 24 Nov 2018, 10:46, edited 1 time in total.
I'm Thibault Lapers, spotter in Belgium for now 3 years, but not yet across the world and a huuuuuge aviation geek ! Join me on Facebook & Twitter @TLspotting

convair
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by convair » 24 Nov 2018, 00:35

TLspotting wrote:
23 Nov 2018, 23:06
luchtzak wrote:
23 Nov 2018, 22:59
TLspotting wrote:
03 Oct 2018, 17:38
AB is going to fly for BA from Heathrow to Dubai as from 1/2 November until 14/15 December 2018.

BA105 LHR - DXB 20:40 - 07:55+1 1234567 A343
BA104 DXB - LHR 14:00 - 18:00 1234567 A343
ACMI flights extended until end of January 2019.
Thank you TLspotting :P

Even further, until 30/31 March 2019 when it is going to be changed into AUH.

Same schedule, except for the last LHR-DXB-LHR flight due to time change :
BA105 LHR - DXB 20:40 - 07:45+1 A343 OO-AB* 31/03/2018
BA104 DXB - LHR 13:15 - 18:00 A343 OO-AB* 31/03/2018

Another news should be announced soon. I keep you in touch!
Very good news for Air Belgium. Thank you TLspotting! ;)
At least they can keep 1 or 2 aircraft and some of their crews busy. Btw, is it AB or BA cabin crews on these flights?

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