Air Belgium in 2018

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luchtzak
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Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by luchtzak »

What is it then? An in between certificate?

Bralo20
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Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by Bralo20 »

A "continuing airworthiness management organisation" certificate, also known as CAMO.


Bralo20
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Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by Bralo20 »

Played a bit with the filename and found one for VLM Regional:

https://mobilit.belgium.be/sites/defaul ... mg_.27.pdf

Strange thing is that also mention an AOC number, but this is B-3054 while Air Belgium has B-3053 which is a lower number, the CAMO certificate of VLM dates back to January 2017 and the one of Air Belgium from this month. So I guess the AOC numbers mentioned are given at the request and doesn't actual mean that it was granted (same as in the Air Belgium file, no permit to fly).

simnam
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Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by simnam »

Bralo20 wrote: 21 Feb 2018, 21:01
...
in the last page, the approval schedule:
Permits to fly authorised: NO
...
Hello all,

the "permit to fly" referenced in the CAMO approval is linked to a privilege that may be grant to a CAMO (upon demonstration of compliance with the related requirements). If a CAMO has this privilege, it allows it to emit a Permit to Fly for a specific aircraft which would temporaly not be airworthy (e.g. because of a damage), to allow for example a ferry flight to a maintenance location.

It has nothing to do with the regular operation of the company.

I don't really find any surprise in the way things are going for AB. They have to get a lot of documentation (CAMO, AOC, A/C registration, etc...), and they are all connected.

A small example : as per Part ORO - "Application for an air operator certificate" - ORO.AOC.100 (c)(2), Applicants shall demonstrate to the competent authority that all aircraft operated have a certificate of airworthiness (CofA) in accordance with Regulation (EU) No 748/2012 or are dry-leased in accordance with ORO.AOC.110(d);
So in order to have your AOC, you have to get all the info of the A/C you will operate.

Now that they have received their registration, the CAMO approval, I have no doubt the AOC will follow, upon demonstration of all requirements to the competent authority...

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KriVa
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Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by KriVa »

Hi simnam, thanks for the explanation, and welcome to aviation24!
Thomas

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BrightCedars
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Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by BrightCedars »

Wishing happy lunar new year on social media to your followers 5 days after the date: check!

Are they trying hard to seem like a bunch of amateurs or are they just that?!

JOVAN
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Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by JOVAN »

BrightCedars wrote: 22 Feb 2018, 11:45 Wishing happy lunar new year on social media to your followers 5 days after the date: check!

Are they trying hard to seem like a bunch of amateurs or are they just that?!
Not to late to wish happy new year to Chinese friends and customers.
This is not for 1 day but a period of 5 to 10 days depending the country.

I wish you and AB a Happy Lunar New Year.
I hope they succeed and can bring new blood in Belgian aviation industry.

TLspotting
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Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by TLspotting »

Hello !
The first A343 OO-ABA is normally coming to Charleroi tomorrow. Does anyone know when ?
Hi. I'm Thibault Lapers. @ThibaultLapers & @TLspotting

SR20
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Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by SR20 »

TLspotting wrote: 22 Feb 2018, 19:54 Hello !
The first A343 OO-ABA is normally coming to Charleroi tomorrow. Does anyone know when ?
I don't know if OO-ABA is actually coming to CRL today.
What I know is that a training session is planned at LGG with the OO-ABB on tuesday february 27th betwern 11.00 and 16.00 local time ! 😄

Aviator81
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Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by Aviator81 »

I know someone from the BCAA, he would fly to Toulouse to supervise an acceptance of an A340 for Air Belgium on sunday 25th february but this event was cancelled due to unknown reason.

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luchtzak
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Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by luchtzak »

Aviator81 wrote: 23 Feb 2018, 09:22 I know someone from the BCAA, he would fly to Toulouse to supervise an acceptance of an A340 for Air Belgium on sunday 25th february but this event was cancelled due to unknown reason.
Indeed, the training flights scheduled for tomorrow have been suspended.

Read: viewtopic.php?p=363322#p363322

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MiStEr-T
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Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by MiStEr-T »

BrightCedars wrote: 20 Feb 2018, 10:15 I'm still not convinced about CRL, particularly due to the runway length and the penalty it induces in payload and full power take off but I guess if the business model works they'll go for something more efficient later on.
The runway length is not really a penalty for them, no real demand for air cargo from Belgium to China :roll:
They don't plan to take cargo to China

ZavCity
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Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by ZavCity »

Hallo
I will believe it when iI see it, an A340 Air Belgium full colors!And who says these planes will be PAINTED...I heard somewhere they might be STICKERED...As you see, rumours, nothing but rumours...We'll see !!
paul

Passenger
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Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by Passenger »

From their press release, 31st Jan 2018: "...Air Belgium’s first flights have been planned for the end of March 2018, with Hong Kong as the first official destination. The arrival of the first plane, mid-February 2018, allows the airline time to complete the process regarding its Operating License..."

I regard Terzakis and team a zillion time smarter then me, but I really don't understand this. On 31st January they hadn't sold a single ticket yet and they hadn't one confirmed group booking yet. But yet they planned to start flying 2 months later? Their load factors would have been dramaticly low during their first months, when they indeed would have started end of March.

I don't know the time lapse between booking date and flying date for Hong Kong, but it's surely more then two months. For leisure travel, it's probably more then 4-6 months.

Therefore: if they want good load factors, they should double the planned time lapse between "bookings open" and "first flight". There are other possibilities with their A340 - example backups for BE BL FR DE UK carriers. Just one example: KLM's Orange Pride 777 PH-BVA is AOG now for three weeks.

Shonix
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Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by Shonix »

Passenger wrote: 26 Feb 2018, 23:23 From their press release, 31st Jan 2018: "...Air Belgium’s first flights have been planned for the end of March 2018, with Hong Kong as the first official destination. The arrival of the first plane, mid-February 2018, allows the airline time to complete the process regarding its Operating License..."

I regard Terzakis and team a zillion time smarter then me, but I really don't understand this. On 31st January they hadn't sold a single ticket yet and they hadn't one confirmed group booking yet. But yet they planned to start flying 2 months later? Their load factors would have been dramaticly low during their first months, when they indeed would have started end of March.

I don't know the time lapse between booking date and flying date for Hong Kong, but it's surely more then two months. For leisure travel, it's probably more then 4-6 months.

Therefore: if they want good load factors, they should double the planned time lapse between "bookings open" and "first flight". There are other possibilities with their A340 - example backups for BE BL FR DE UK carriers. Just one example: KLM's Orange Pride 777 PH-BVA is AOG now for three weeks.
Don't worry, they know what they're doing. I had the opportunity to meet one of Air Belgium's executives. The only thing I would say is: some information just need to remain confidential. They are not amateurs.

Passenger
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Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by Passenger »

Shonix wrote: 27 Feb 2018, 10:45Don't worry, they know what they're doing. I had the opportunity to meet one of Air Belgium's executives. The only thing I would say is: some information just need to remain confidential. They are not amateurs.
Totally agree: they are not amateurs. But they never never never expected that it would take more then two years to get their AOC, and those two years have hurt their financial situation. There must be quite some pressure now to start flying and earn money. It's that pressure that could kill them.

They can't force the market. Passengers with a paid ticket elsewhere won't cancel that. Touroperators with group allotments won't cancel them because AB now offers flights out of CRL. There must be a certain time to get yourself in the market. Example: Cathay: they applied six months between announcement "HKG-BRU-HKG" and first flight.

If AB start flying too soon, their load factor will be terrible and they will loose money 100 times faster then happened till now. Just like what happened to VG Airlines in 2002 - they also had to wait extremely long for their AOC.

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CTBke
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Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by CTBke »

can't they lease some planes from Hifly to at least start the first operations ?
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Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by Acid-drop »

If AB start flying too soon, their load factor will be terrible and they will loose money 100 times faster then happened till now
Or they will have a 100% load factor because chineese tour operators will use them from the first day, just like they fill the planes going to LGG from April
My messages reflect my personal opinion which may be different than yours. I beleive a forum is made to create a debate so I encourage people to express themselves, the way they want, with the ideas they want. I expect the same understanding in return.

convair
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Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by convair »

Re the AOC, can't they sue the administration if it's dragging its feet unduly?

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