Air Belgium in 2018

Join this forum to discuss the latest news that happened in the world of commercial aviation.

Moderator: Latest news team

Post Reply
User avatar
Airbus330lover
Posts: 822
Joined: 21 Jul 2005, 00:00
Location: Rixensart

Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by Airbus330lover »

Not Real wrote: 31 Jan 2018, 14:19
Acid-drop wrote: 31 Jan 2018, 12:41
Shonix wrote: 31 Jan 2018, 12:13

It is. However, it will never be admitted publicly. This project is a Walloon vs Flemish battle. I'm also pretty sure the AOC is still not yet delivered for political reasons.
When Flanders wins, it's only normal.
When Wallonia wins, it becomes a political battle and everything is unfair.
It's one point of view.
From here, I have a different point of view : Wallonia invested massively in aviation, infrastructure, subsidies, political will. So yes, once in a while, it works ;)
VLM will be the equivalent success in Flanders, and everybody is happy.
Where Flanders wins in aviation? The 2 biggest airport in a whole country are french speaking meanwhile french speaking people is only 35% - 40% of the population in Belgium!

Second thing - all those "Chinese tourist" will visit Brussels, Gent, Brugge, Antwerpen - not Liege of Namur. So why Charleroi? Because of politic, so yes - Air Wallonia should be the name.

Third - yes, Flanders has VLM and nobody helps the company, neither the airport of Antwerpen. I don't understand why as more tourist come to Belgium to visit Flanders and Brussels...
They visit Europ, Belgium and the beautifull cities of Brugge, Gent, Brussels, Paris,....
The airport problem is a "no problem", the distances are so short in Europ.
Last edited by Airbus330lover on 31 Jan 2018, 15:02, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
luchtzak
Posts: 11484
Joined: 18 Sep 2002, 00:00
Location: Hofstade, Zemst - Belgium
Contact:

Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by luchtzak »

André Orban added some useful information in the article, check https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/air-b ... l-network/

Welcome to our newcomers btw!

User avatar
Airbus330lover
Posts: 822
Joined: 21 Jul 2005, 00:00
Location: Rixensart

Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by Airbus330lover »

Think positive...
New airline, more fun

User avatar
HQ_BRU_Lover
Posts: 327
Joined: 22 May 2013, 20:44

Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by HQ_BRU_Lover »

Acid-drop wrote:When Wallonia wins, it becomes a political battle and everything is unfair.
:lol:

Image

We, as aviation enthousiasts, should just be happy to see a new project starting. No matter it's from the North or South side of the country. But we shouldn't close our eyes neither for some doubtful procedures they've followed or strange decisions that they've made (from an outsiders point of view).

Didymus
Posts: 190
Joined: 17 Jul 2010, 15:13
Location: Ghent, Belgium
Contact:

Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by Didymus »

Not Real wrote: 31 Jan 2018, 14:19Where Flanders wins in aviation? The 2 biggest airport in a whole country are french speaking meanwhile french speaking people is only 35% - 40% of the population in Belgium!
BRU is on Flemish territory where the official language is Dutch only. The use of other languages in for instance signs at the airport is an exception on the language legislation. The majority of the BRU staff speaking French doesn't make it a French speaking airport...

crew1990
Posts: 1127
Joined: 29 Dec 2010, 21:46

Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by crew1990 »

Didymus wrote: 31 Jan 2018, 15:09
Not Real wrote: 31 Jan 2018, 14:19Where Flanders wins in aviation? The 2 biggest airport in a whole country are french speaking meanwhile french speaking people is only 35% - 40% of the population in Belgium!
BRU is on Flemish territory where the official language is Dutch only. The use of other languages in for instance signs at the airport is an exception on the language legislation. The majority of the BRU staff speaking French doesn't make it a French speaking airport...
BRU is a case very special as this is the national airport of Belgium, I'm not really convince that the worker are more french speaking or Dutch speaking, it's really depending where you go in the airport, most of the people working in duty-free shop are more dutch speaking. The one of helixir, certain other shop and restaurant, the hairdresser are french speaking. Tuifly is more Dutch speaking, At Brussels Airlines it's more Dutch speaking for the cabin crew and check in community, but it's half and half in te office. I actually think there is job for everyone.

Acid-drop
Posts: 2744
Joined: 29 Jun 2005, 00:00
Location: Liège, BE
Contact:

Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by Acid-drop »

Niky Terzakis mentioned that he had received a better offer from Brussels Airport, but this offer was tied to unacceptable conditions: Air Belgium would not be allowed to enter in competition with existing carriers.
This explains that.
From the business terminal, passengers will be able to go from the car park to the boarding area in a maximum of 20 minutes, with no queues.
Cant hope for that in BRU, you'd still be stuck on the ring
My messages reflect my personal opinion which may be different than yours. I beleive a forum is made to create a debate so I encourage people to express themselves, the way they want, with the ideas they want. I expect the same understanding in return.

Mr.Positive
Posts: 2
Joined: 31 Jan 2018, 13:41

Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by Mr.Positive »

Re short runway at CRL:
someone above hinted the CRL runway may get a 700 meter extension within the next 36 months or so.

That being said, please bear in mind that the eastbound flights to Asia typically enjoy vary favorable tailwinds, and that most eastbound flights hardly carry any cargo because of the huge eastbound overcapacity on the market; in addition, it is reasonable not to expect the route to commercially operate at full capacity during the initial period, (not to mention that Chinese passengers may on average weigh less ...).

But one thing is for sure: passengers hate technical stops, they mostly consider it a thing of the past.

Boavida
Posts: 497
Joined: 14 Sep 2010, 23:54

Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by Boavida »

It would have been nice to see the planes of the 'Belgian' carriers all together at the gates in BRU...

A A340 of Air Belgium next to a A330 of Brussels Airlines, a 787 TUI Dreamliner, and a VLM A330 :)

JOVAN
Posts: 484
Joined: 08 Jun 2006, 00:00

Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by JOVAN »

Boavida wrote: 31 Jan 2018, 13:04
Acid-drop wrote: 31 Jan 2018, 12:41
Shonix wrote: 31 Jan 2018, 12:13

It is. However, it will never be admitted publicly. This project is a Walloon vs Flemish battle. I'm also pretty sure the AOC is still not yet delivered for political reasons.
When Flanders wins, it's only normal.
When Wallonia wins, it becomes a political battle and everything is unfair.
It's one point of view.
From here, I have a different point of view : Wallonia invested massively in aviation, infrastructure, subsidies, political will. So yes, once in a while, it works ;)
VLM will be the equivalent success in Flanders, and everybody is happy.
It's not about being unfair or not, it's about making the right (business!) choices to make this project a success. Politics is never a good idea with these kind of (aviation) projects, with Sabena being the saddest example of this. I do hope Air Belgium will be a great success, but let's be honest, BRU would have been a better choice.

This being said, Wallonia did a far better job with its regional airports compared to the old, rusty ones in Flanders!

Wallonia really has a plan and strategy for Aviation. Flanders concentrates more on bicycles.

there is a huge market for chinese toursist coming to Europe. They all dream about it. The Chinese middle class is growing at enormous speed.

Charleroi is also very well located.

Mr. Terzakis is a business man. If BRU makes it difficult & expensive, leave them alone !! Competition is great !!.

Air Belgium is new. Their Management & People look competent to me. More than VLM honestly.
Anyway let us support both initiatives.

Let's bring a substantial part of the Chinese tourist business to Belgium, instead of leaving it to surrounding countries.
It is business, stupid !!

convair
Posts: 1812
Joined: 18 Nov 2011, 00:02

Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by convair »

luchtzak wrote: 31 Jan 2018, 15:00 André Orban added some useful information in the article, check https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/air-b ... l-network/
Did Terzakis give any (private) comment on the duration of the AOC procedure?

Didymus
Posts: 190
Joined: 17 Jul 2010, 15:13
Location: Ghent, Belgium
Contact:

Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by Didymus »

crew1990 wrote: 31 Jan 2018, 15:23BRU is a case very special as this is the national airport of Belgium, I'm not really convince that the worker are more french speaking or Dutch speaking.
Me neither; I used that statement solely for the sake of the argument.

Language policy and planning in public places is a complicated matter, which is often, and in Belgium by default, heavily regulated. The language of an airport is therefore determined by these policies, not by the preferred language of the staff, board or the majority of passengers.

crew1990
Posts: 1127
Joined: 29 Dec 2010, 21:46

Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by crew1990 »

Didymus wrote: 31 Jan 2018, 15:49
crew1990 wrote: 31 Jan 2018, 15:23BRU is a case very special as this is the national airport of Belgium, I'm not really convince that the worker are more french speaking or Dutch speaking.
Me neither; I used that statement solely for the sake of the argument.

Language policy and planning in public places is a complicated matter, which is often, and in Belgium by default, heavily regulated. The language of an airport is therefore determined by these policies, not by the preferred language of the staff, board or the majority of passengers.
Yes indeed but Brussels Airport is regulated by federal administration given the special status of the airport. When you enter the airport you are not in the flemish region anymore even if the airport is surrounded by the flemish region, you are not in the Brussels region neither, even if it's "Brussels Airport", you are actually in a national zone.

Passenger
Posts: 6861
Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by Passenger »

A quote from the article in the homepage: Shareholders. The capital of the company is changing. Air Belgium will issue a special news release later to explain how. The majority of the shares are in Belgian hands.
https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/air-b ... l-network/

Air Belgium sa/nv:
http://www.ejustice.just.fgov.be/cgi_ts ... iste=Liste
Investment is urgently needed indeed:
http://cri.nbb.be/bc9/web/catalog?lang= ... 0648801623

"Majority of chares in Belgium hands"? Maybe at Air Belgium, but not here:
http://www.ejustice.just.fgov.be/tsv_pd ... 166051.pdf
Avia Invest sa/nv:
http://www.ejustice.just.fgov.be/cgi_ts ... iste=Liste

User avatar
sn26567
Posts: 37274
Joined: 13 Feb 2003, 00:00
Location: Rosières/Rozieren, Belgium
Contact:

Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by sn26567 »

convair wrote: 31 Jan 2018, 15:45 Did Terzakis give any (private) comment on the duration of the AOC procedure?
No, he only said he expected to receive the AOC in February. He also said that this needed a lot of preparation, and from what I have seen, the people on the payroll have done a hell of a job. For example, they made sessions in Hong Kong to hire Chinese stewardesses (tri-lingual: Mandarin, Cantonese and English) and actually selected the future Chinese stewardesses, who will work together with Belgian tri-lingual cabin crew (English, French, Dutch).

And this is just an example.

There was another example last year: the competition to design the uniforms of the crew, in cooperation with fashion house Natan (Edouard Vermeulen). This has now resulted in the design that you can see in the article on the homepage.
André
ex Sabena #26567

Inquirer
Posts: 2088
Joined: 14 Feb 2012, 14:30

Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by Inquirer »

Passenger wrote: 31 Jan 2018, 16:29 A quote from the article in the homepage: Shareholders. The capital of the company is changing. Air Belgium will issue a special news release later to explain how. The majority of the shares are in Belgian hands.
https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/air-b ... l-network/

Air Belgium sa/nv:
http://www.ejustice.just.fgov.be/cgi_ts ... iste=Liste
Investment is urgently needed indeed:
http://cri.nbb.be/bc9/web/catalog?lang= ... 0648801623

"Majority of chares in Belgium hands"? Maybe at Air Belgium, but not here:
http://www.ejustice.just.fgov.be/tsv_pd ... 166051.pdf
Avia Invest sa/nv:
http://www.ejustice.just.fgov.be/cgi_ts ... iste=Liste
Some good research, that is.
Of course, the problem with official accounts is that they always lag vs the current situation, but they do give away quite a few things which seem to contradict the official version put out here: a brief summary, if I may, for those not so used to reading these type of documents?

The airline seems to be very weak on own cash with a limited additional backstop (from its shareholders, I suppose?), and it was burning a lot of money despite its operational inactivity (more money than it has access to), to the point they had to recapitalize it to avoid having to go to court to explain what's going on: that extra money seems to have come entirely from Hong Kong companies indeed.
A quick look at these figures does immediately explain why the BCAA seems very worried and reluctant to issue a permit of operation under Belgian flag! Based on this, I must say I don't understand why they are not applying for a permit in the country of real origin either??
Boavida wrote: 31 Jan 2018, 15:39 A A340 of Air Belgium next to a A330 of Brussels Airlines, a 787 TUI Dreamliner, and a VLM A330
That would be a nice sight indeed, but then maybe we should ask ourselves the question in which medium sized European country such a sight can be seen? Not in any Scandinavian country, not in the Benelux, not in Eastern or Southern Europe... Few -if any- country has more than 2 or 3 intercontinental airlines and for a good reason: in a industry were consolidation is accelerating and company size is a key driver for success, I doubt this line up will be long viewed in Belgium too, in fact.

sean1982
Posts: 3272
Joined: 18 Mar 2003, 00:00
Contact:

Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by sean1982 »

Hold your horses fanboys, there are enough protectionist hands above SN's head, which is best apparent by the "proposition" that BRU airport made. Laughable really :D

I do hope that Air Belgium will be a succes. There is nothing better for a market than some healthy competition.

Didymus
Posts: 190
Joined: 17 Jul 2010, 15:13
Location: Ghent, Belgium
Contact:

Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by Didymus »

crew1990 wrote: 31 Jan 2018, 16:05Yes indeed but Brussels Airport is regulated by federal administration given the special status of the airport. When you enter the airport you are not in the flemish region anymore even if the airport is surrounded by the flemish region, you are not in the Brussels region neither, even if it's "Brussels Airport", you are actually in a national zone.
That's not quite accurate. Even though the Federal government is responsible for the exploitation and equipment of BRU, this does not mean that the airport is not within the borders of the Flemish Region. The concept of a "national zone" you describe does not exist from a legal point of view. Similarly and in contrast to popular belief, embassies are still on the territory of the hosting nation. The fact that law enforcement of the hosting nation cannot enter the embassy of another nation has therefore nothing to do with the territorial principle.

User avatar
travellover
Posts: 297
Joined: 12 Aug 2007, 00:14
Location: plane heaven
Contact:

Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by travellover »

Thanks sn26567 for adding more information from Niky Terzakis.
Mainland China is the big boost these times ! The competition towards China becomes impressive. Revealing little by little their economic and demographic real strength. Many room left for all these different projects (CX, HU, Air Belgium, VLM, U-Tour ...). Many success to each of them !
Looking to the list of the 100 european busiest airports, one can see that BRU, CRL or LGG (cargo) are doing well but many airports have very impressive grows. Many work to keep growing.
And so, see BRU keeping up to be in the same league than VIE, DUS, LIS and very close to DUB, OSL, CPH, ZRH, ARN ... Major airlines like CX can help for this.
Nevertheless, CRL's short runway is a serious brake for Air Belgium's A343. 2021 seems so far away.
Competition is becoming increasingly fierce, dus one can primarily only welcome each of the new initiative in the belgian sky.
All the better that the Flemish ports are so competitive on the world map. And that Wallonia is developing aeronautically with its airports and Sonaca. That BRU is the second pole of economic growth for the country. Brussels Airport is the provider of more than 20,000 direct jobs and of 40,000 indirect jobs.
A win win situation.
Touristicaly, beside the musts of Brussels, Bruges, Ghent and many others, there are other note worthy sites like Dinant with Adolphe Sax and the surrounding landscapes. More and more international tourists
(Europe, China, Japan) can be seen over there.
Last edited by travellover on 31 Jan 2018, 23:23, edited 1 time in total.
Cheers

pitrixplanespotting
Posts: 589
Joined: 04 Feb 2016, 18:11

Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by pitrixplanespotting »

luchtzak wrote: 31 Jan 2018, 11:48 Today test flights are being performed on the A340, we should follow Flightradar24!
I don't find any test flights, maybe reg changed on the flightradars?

OO-ABA OH-LQB last flight 1 Aug 2016 (now at Bordeaux)
OO-ABB OH-LQC last flight 10 May 2017 (now at ???)
OO-ABC OH-LQD last flight 3 July 2017 (now at Bordeaux)
OO-ABD OH-LQE last flight 4 October 2017 (now at Tarbes)

source: adsbexchange.com

Post Reply