Pegasus Airlines off the runway at Trabzon; Boeing 737-82R registered TC-CPF

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pitrixplanespotting
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Re: Pegasus Airlines off the runway at Trabzon; Boeing 737-82R registered TC-CPF

Post by pitrixplanespotting » 14 Jan 2018, 18:55

jan_olieslagers wrote:
14 Jan 2018, 14:25
wondering how they did that
Have you spent much time piloting?
No, x-plane 10, yes, but that's certainly not the same. I'm not blaming pilots - they probably did the best possible - ice explaines everything.

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Re: Pegasus Airlines off the runway at Trabzon; Boeing 737-82R registered TC-CPF

Post by jan_olieslagers » 14 Jan 2018, 19:07

:grin: all said, then...

For myself, I have my reserves regarding who designed that airport layout - and about those who approved it. But I must admit architecture is not MY cup of tea, and perhaps the architects, just like the pilots, made the best of it, given the constraints in place.

Bralo20
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Re: Pegasus Airlines off the runway at Trabzon; Boeing 737-82R registered TC-CPF

Post by Bralo20 » 14 Jan 2018, 19:18

jan_olieslagers wrote:
14 Jan 2018, 18:47
Yes indeed, looking more and more like a write-off. According to wikipedia, one engine broke off to drop into the water - a severe loss, economically.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pegasus_A ... light_8622 - but that article has been nominated for deletion.
There's indeed an engine broken off, you can see it in the water on some pictures (which also gives a good image how shallow the water is).

Purely from a damage point of view I think it will be on the border of a write off. First flight was only 5 years ago, so it's still a fairly recent plane with a decent book value. I can't see any indications of a fuel leak so we can assume the wings survived this incident fairly well. I assume that it all happened at a fairly low speed due to the short distance the plane travelled when it went downhill, so there's quite a big chance that all the gears are intact (yet damaged beyond repair) and that the plane slowly sunk in the mud during the short distance. So I think that the chance that the fuselage itself is virtually undamaged is quite high...

In the end it will all depend on what the insurance will say, will they go for a recovery with a very hefty price tag or will they go for parting out the plane on the spot and recuperating value by reselling undamaged equipment. Even parting out will cost quite a bit, they have to build roads on the slopes to get heavy equipment, cranes & trucks right next to the plane.

They could always go for the cheapest option, leave the plane there and make it into a tourist spot :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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Re: Pegasus Airlines off the runway at Trabzon; Boeing 737-82R registered TC-CPF

Post by 737MAX » 14 Jan 2018, 19:31

luchtzak wrote:
14 Jan 2018, 14:08
pitrixplanespotting wrote:
14 Jan 2018, 13:52
Little bit strange position, wondering how they did that!
Ice and rain.
Interesting...

LTCG 132050Z 25001KT 2800 -RA BR BKN004 BKN025 08/07 Q1021 BECMG TL2100 3200=
LTCG 132020Z 24001KT 4000 -RA BR BKN003 BKN025 08/07 Q1021 NOSIG=

+8°C...

Ice with +8°C.
Yep, interesting I'd say... :lol:

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Re: Pegasus Airlines off the runway at Trabzon; Boeing 737-82R registered TC-CPF

Post by luchtzak » 14 Jan 2018, 19:34

Then Funchal is also a weird airport ...

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Re: Pegasus Airlines off the runway at Trabzon; Boeing 737-82R registered TC-CPF

Post by jan_olieslagers » 14 Jan 2018, 19:42

... and many more others. In English they call them "accidents waiting to happen" and now at Trabzon the waiting is done.

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Re: Pegasus Airlines off the runway at Trabzon; Boeing 737-82R registered TC-CPF

Post by Homo Aeroportus » 14 Jan 2018, 19:47

I suppose the parallel marks left in the mud next to the runway edge are those made by the main landing gear, as the gauge (5.70 m on a 738) appears compatible with the size of the fire trucks nearby.
0x0-trabzonda-faciadan-donuldu-gun-agarinca-ortaya-cikti-1515912424678 - Copy.jpg

But I don’t seem to see the track that the nose landing gear should have made between those visible.
On an average B738 (MGW 78 471 kg) the vertical force on the NLG is 7.8 tons, and each strut of the MLG applies 37 tons (max aft CG).
Considering the standard braking effort (10 ft/s²) on the apron, the whiplash effect makes the NLG to apply a vertical force of 12 tons.

These are the values at max taxi weight and in the case of Trabzon she was at the end of the flight but, mutatis mutandis (lower weight on the MLG, max deceleration), the vertical force applied on the nose wheels must have been significant compared to the one on the MLG.

So, was TC-CPF accelerating at the time of leaving the runway?

In any case a close escape. Could have been a bad start for the 2018 stats.

H.A.

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Re: Pegasus Airlines off the runway at Trabzon; Boeing 737-82R registered TC-CPF

Post by jan_olieslagers » 14 Jan 2018, 20:05

But I don’t seem to see the track that the nose landing gear should have made between those visible.
You have keen eyes! Perhaps the pilots kept the nose wheel(s) up for as long as they could? That ought to help in deceleration, by maximalising frontal area.

I heartily agree the outcome could have been much much worse.

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Re: Pegasus Airlines off the runway at Trabzon; Boeing 737-82R registered TC-CPF

Post by Passenger » 14 Jan 2018, 20:13

Bralo20 wrote:
14 Jan 2018, 19:18
I can't see any indications of a fuel leak so we can assume the wings survived this incident fairly well.
If you look very good at one of the photos, you can see that the left wing and the right wing have a different angle. Looks like the right wing deformed. Tail part also detached.

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Re: Pegasus Airlines off the runway at Trabzon; Boeing 737-82R registered TC-CPF

Post by Homo Aeroportus » 14 Jan 2018, 21:44

jan_olieslagers wrote:
14 Jan 2018, 20:05
But I don’t seem to see the track that the nose landing gear should have made between those visible.
You have keen eyes! Perhaps the pilots kept the nose wheel(s) up for as long as they could? That ought to help in deceleration, by maximalising frontal area.

I heartily agree the outcome could have been much much worse.
You mean a wheeling for 2400 metres?
Then a U-turn using the hand brake ;)

I downloaded the FR24 csv and worked the numbers a bit.
It looks they came in hot.
TC-CPF.png
Straight in, aligned at 18 miles out. CDA but considering that the wind speed on ground was 0-1 kt at that time, +140 kts GS seems a bit high no?

H.A.

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Re: Pegasus Airlines off the runway at Trabzon; Boeing 737-82R registered TC-CPF

Post by 737MAX » 15 Jan 2018, 09:28

Homo Aeroportus wrote:
14 Jan 2018, 21:44


Straight in, aligned at 18 miles out. CDA but considering that the wind speed on ground was 0-1 kt at that time, +140 kts GS seems a bit high no?

H.A.
No, 140kts target speed is perfectly normal for a B738.

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Re: Pegasus Airlines off the runway at Trabzon; Boeing 737-82R registered TC-CPF

Post by luchtzak » 15 Jan 2018, 10:42

FIRST STATEMENT of the pilots involved in Pegasus #PC8622 accident, Trabzon airport, January 13th (via www.twitter.com/airporthaber ):

"The plane made a normal landing, but when maneuvering to exit the runway, the right engine accelerated and the plane went to the left side". The pilots told the investigators the right engine suddenly accelerated while the plane was about to make a U-turn at the end of the runway and backtrack it, and it flicked the Boeing 737-800 towards the sea, in the opposite direction that the plane tried to turn. The pilots were examined for alcohol and no alcohol was found.

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Re: Pegasus Airlines off the runway at Trabzon; Boeing 737-82R registered TC-CPF

Post by RTM » 16 Jan 2018, 07:15

Bralo20 wrote:
14 Jan 2018, 19:18
jan_olieslagers wrote:
14 Jan 2018, 18:47
Yes indeed, looking more and more like a write-off. According to wikipedia, one engine broke off to drop into the water - a severe loss, economically.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pegasus_A ... light_8622 - but that article has been nominated for deletion.
There's indeed an engine broken off, you can see it in the water on some pictures (which also gives a good image how shallow the water is).

Purely from a damage point of view I think it will be on the border of a write off. First flight was only 5 years ago, so it's still a fairly recent plane with a decent book value. I can't see any indications of a fuel leak so we can assume the wings survived this incident fairly well. I assume that it all happened at a fairly low speed due to the short distance the plane travelled when it went downhill, so there's quite a big chance that all the gears are intact (yet damaged beyond repair) and that the plane slowly sunk in the mud during the short distance. So I think that the chance that the fuselage itself is virtually undamaged is quite high...

In the end it will all depend on what the insurance will say, will they go for a recovery with a very hefty price tag or will they go for parting out the plane on the spot and recuperating value by reselling undamaged equipment. Even parting out will cost quite a bit, they have to build roads on the slopes to get heavy equipment, cranes & trucks right next to the plane.

They could always go for the cheapest option, leave the plane there and make it into a tourist spot :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
A write off for sure. Engine torn off, gear broke off, and came through the top of the wing, severe belly and wing damage... No way it will fly again. Just put airbags on it, and drag it into the sea, to a point where it can be hoisted onto a barge.

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Re: Pegasus Airlines off the runway at Trabzon; Boeing 737-82R registered TC-CPF

Post by quixoticguide » 17 Jan 2018, 22:23

They see the runway FO disengages the autopilot but at the same time he presses the toga buttons.
Captain takes over and lowers the nose and retards both thrust levers to idle, they land at idle thrust and aircraft was dispatched with one reverser inop. Captain deploys the thrust reverser of the left engine and releases the right engine.

Since he hadn't disconnect the auto throttle right engine goes to TOGA thrust. Aircraft starts to accelerate and skids off the runway from the left. Right engine saparates.

All passengers evacuate the aircraft from the rear door. No smoke in the cabin no injuries. But they were close to death .
Visit my flights on: http://www.quixoticguide.com

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Re: Pegasus Airlines off the runway at Trabzon; Boeing 737-82R registered TC-CPF

Post by luchtzak » 18 Jan 2018, 12:26

jan_olieslagers wrote:
14 Jan 2018, 12:47
Recovery from the runway would be quite an enterprise indeed. Crane(s) on ship/barge? Could the Antwerp port rent out their "Grote Gust" floating crane? :)

Or helicopter? But even a Mi-26 has a payload of "only" 20 tons so at least two would be needed.
Works to remove the aircraft have started. Will that crane be able to lift it ?

Image

Image

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Re: Pegasus Airlines off the runway at Trabzon; Boeing 737-82R registered TC-CPF

Post by luchtzak » 18 Jan 2018, 12:29

LIve stream via: https://www.facebook.com/skynews/videos ... Mw4F1b-168

They simply lift the aircraft, hull loss ?

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Re: Pegasus Airlines off the runway at Trabzon; Boeing 737-82R registered TC-CPF

Post by Bralo20 » 18 Jan 2018, 13:04

Seems they stabilised the ground for the cranes to be able to position close to the edge.

Seems that the plane is less damaged than I thought:
Screen Shot 2018-01-18 at 13.02.28kopie.jpg


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Re: Pegasus Airlines off the runway at Trabzon; Boeing 737-82R registered TC-CPF

Post by RTM » 18 Jan 2018, 14:07

Damage to the belly doesn't seem to bee too bad. I anticipated worse... But pictures do not show enough detail to see wrinkling and or buckling of the fuselage. That will help indicate how far of it will be from a hull loss. Though the right gear and pylon being ripped off, are not a good sign. But if the fuselage is still straight, and the structural damage to the wing is repairable, it might have a future yet... Big "ifs" though...


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