Ryanair in 2018

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luchtzak
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Re: Ryanair in 2018

Post by luchtzak » 22 Oct 2018, 12:05

sean1982 wrote:
21 Oct 2018, 17:50
Did I contest that? I wasnt speaking in Ryanair’s defense but merely explaining Why the crew cant just arrange everything themselves
Not at all!

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Re: Ryanair in 2018

Post by luchtzak » 22 Oct 2018, 12:05


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Re: Ryanair in 2018

Post by luchtzak » 23 Oct 2018, 21:53

The Ryanair crew members that staged the sleeping-on-the-floor picture have been summoned to Dublin.

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Re: Ryanair in 2018

Post by sn26567 » 23 Oct 2018, 22:20

luchtzak wrote:
23 Oct 2018, 21:53
The Ryanair crew members that staged the sleeping-on-the-floor picture have been summoned to Dublin.
Will they also sleep on the floor in Dublin Airport or did the airline book them in a decent hotel?
André
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Re: Ryanair in 2018

Post by sean1982 » 23 Oct 2018, 22:27

sn26567 wrote:
23 Oct 2018, 22:20
luchtzak wrote:
23 Oct 2018, 21:53
The Ryanair crew members that staged the sleeping-on-the-floor picture have been summoned to Dublin.
Will they also sleep on the floor in Dublin Airport or did the airline book them in a decent hotel?
up and down the same day, but un-employed on the way back, that's my guess

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Re: Ryanair in 2018

Post by luchtzak » 23 Oct 2018, 23:11

I think they have other worries to tackle ...

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Re: Ryanair in 2018

Post by luchtzak » 25 Oct 2018, 19:06

2 wins for Ryanair pilots & their unions in only 2 days: Belgian labour law – instead of Irish – will apply as of 31 Jan. 2019 to all directly employed pilots & cabin crew based in Belgium.

This comes only one day after Ryanair pilots based in Spain achieved the same – national labour law, with no preconditions.

Now the real work can start: negotiating a comprehensive Collective Labour Agreement on the many issues where pilots want to see improvements in their working environment & conditions. A big job ahead.

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Re: Ryanair in 2018

Post by 737MAX » 25 Oct 2018, 19:08

Does that mean they’ll pay their taxes in Belgium, instead of Ireland? :?

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Re: Ryanair in 2018

Post by luchtzak » 25 Oct 2018, 20:57

737MAX wrote:
25 Oct 2018, 19:08
Does that mean they’ll pay their taxes in Belgium, instead of Ireland? :?
No idea!

Here is our article: https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/ryan ... c-lbc-nvk/

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Re: Ryanair in 2018

Post by luchtzak » 26 Oct 2018, 10:29


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Re: Ryanair in 2018

Post by Passenger » 26 Oct 2018, 11:18

luchtzak wrote:
25 Oct 2018, 20:57
737MAX wrote:
25 Oct 2018, 19:08
Does that mean they’ll pay their taxes in Belgium, instead of Ireland? :?
No idea!
Here is our article: https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/ryan ... c-lbc-nvk/
There is international legislation for aircrew, allowing them to choose (income tax and/or social security taxes?). But this legislation ends in 2020 or 2022, me thinks. Not sure - I think that Sean has posted about that issue some time ago.

Working under Belgian labour legislation means they will have better rules for sickness, for special leave (like maternity or attending funerals), for insurance matters, ...

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Re: Ryanair in 2018

Post by sean1982 » 26 Oct 2018, 14:53

Passenger wrote:
26 Oct 2018, 11:18
luchtzak wrote:
25 Oct 2018, 20:57
737MAX wrote:
25 Oct 2018, 19:08
Does that mean they’ll pay their taxes in Belgium, instead of Ireland? :?
No idea!
Here is our article: https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/ryan ... c-lbc-nvk/
There is international legislation for aircrew, allowing them to choose (income tax and/or social security taxes?). But this legislation ends in 2020 or 2022, me thinks. Not sure - I think that Sean has posted about that issue some time ago.

Working under Belgian labour legislation means they will have better rules for sickness, for special leave (like maternity or attending funerals), for insurance matters, ...
Yeah, it’s a choice and also not a choice. So called “grandfather rights” lets the crewmember keep the contract until 2020 when they will have to start paying local social security. However the employer, employee or any change in contract can or does make the right void and you would have to start paying locally straight away.

Tax is a different issue and that depends on your country of emplyment, time spend in another country and whether or not there is a double tax agreemenrt.

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Re: Ryanair in 2018

Post by epsilon » 26 Oct 2018, 20:55

Passenger wrote:
26 Oct 2018, 11:18
luchtzak wrote:
25 Oct 2018, 20:57
737MAX wrote:
25 Oct 2018, 19:08
Does that mean they’ll pay their taxes in Belgium, instead of Ireland? :?
No idea!
Here is our article: https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/ryan ... c-lbc-nvk/
There is international legislation for aircrew, allowing them to choose (income tax and/or social security taxes?). But this legislation ends in 2020 or 2022, me thinks. Not sure - I think that Sean has posted about that issue some time ago.

Working under Belgian labour legislation means they will have better rules for sickness, for special leave (like maternity or attending funerals), for insurance matters, ...
Grandfather rights end in 2022 I believe. However they end immediately if there is a “significant” change in circumstances or contract. The Irish office of social affairs already made a statement that indeed they view this as “change of circumstances” and will no longer issue an A1 certificate. The Belgian union said it is not a change of circumstances... (Irish social tax is 4%, Belgian 13,07%).
For income tax there is no change, Irish tax is payable (about 45% for pilots over the year I think)

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Re: Ryanair in 2018

Post by Passenger » 01 Nov 2018, 11:36

Passenger wrote:
18 Oct 2018, 08:49
Court case in Den Bosch (NL) today (18/10/2018): 13 Ryanair pilots demand that the court forbits Ryanair to close their base there, because that's done as a reaction to the past strike. Ryanair claims that Eindhoven base will be closed because of raising fuel prices, cheaper tickets and lower demand.
Court verdict: the judge forbits Ryanair to close its Eindhoven base!
https://www.nu.nl/ondernemen/5547032/ry ... uiten.html

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Re: Ryanair in 2018

Post by Passenger » 01 Nov 2018, 12:04

Passenger wrote:
01 Nov 2018, 11:36
Passenger wrote:
18 Oct 2018, 08:49
Court case in Den Bosch (NL) today (18/10/2018): 13 Ryanair pilots demand that the court forbits Ryanair to close their base there, because that's done as a reaction to the past strike. Ryanair claims that Eindhoven base will be closed because of raising fuel prices, cheaper tickets and lower demand.
Court verdict: the judge forbits Ryanair to close its Eindhoven base!
https://www.nu.nl/ondernemen/5547032/ry ... uiten.html
Full verdict (in Dutch only):
https://uitspraken.rechtspraak.nl/inzie ... :2018:5330

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Re: Ryanair in 2018

Post by convair » 01 Nov 2018, 13:14

Passenger wrote:
01 Nov 2018, 11:36
Passenger wrote:
18 Oct 2018, 08:49
Court case in Den Bosch (NL) today (18/10/2018): 13 Ryanair pilots demand that the court forbits Ryanair to close their base there, because that's done as a reaction to the past strike. Ryanair claims that Eindhoven base will be closed because of raising fuel prices, cheaper tickets and lower demand.
Court verdict: the judge forbits Ryanair to close its Eindhoven base!
https://www.nu.nl/ondernemen/5547032/ry ... uiten.html
I'm certainly no supporter of Ryanair, but the Dutch Justice is going astray there, imho.

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Re: Ryanair in 2018

Post by euroflyer » 01 Nov 2018, 13:36

sn26567 wrote:
23 Oct 2018, 22:20
luchtzak wrote:
23 Oct 2018, 21:53
The Ryanair crew members that staged the sleeping-on-the-floor picture have been summoned to Dublin.
Will they also sleep on the floor in Dublin Airport or did the airline book them in a decent hotel?
One way ticket I guess ...
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Re: Ryanair in 2018

Post by Passenger » 01 Nov 2018, 15:22

convair wrote:
01 Nov 2018, 13:14
Passenger wrote:
01 Nov 2018, 11:36
Passenger wrote:
18 Oct 2018, 08:49
Court case in Den Bosch (NL) today (18/10/2018): 13 Ryanair pilots demand that the court forbits Ryanair to close their base there, because that's done as a reaction to the past strike. Ryanair claims that Eindhoven base will be closed because of raising fuel prices, cheaper tickets and lower demand.
Court verdict: the judge forbits Ryanair to close its Eindhoven base!
https://www.nu.nl/ondernemen/5547032/ry ... uiten.html
I'm certainly no supporter of Ryanair, but the Dutch Justice is going astray there, imho.
Indeed: a very strange verdict, specially because it's a "voorzieningenrechter" = a short-case-tribunal, and thus no an in-depth Judge. This verdict looks very indepth to me. But it's in line with the previous short-case (kortgeding) court decision about the Ryanair strikes: a Dutch judge has forbitten that Ryanair would use foreign based pilots to counter a strike by Dutch pilots. The judge ruled that Ryanair had to submit itself to the strike...

Remembers me to that other Dutch court verdict where a judge ruled that a birdstrike is no extraordinary circumstance because the manual of aircraft manufacturers describes what to do then. So a birdstrike is part of normal flight operations, the judge ruled: "...Dat in het handboek van de producent wordt beschreven hoe gehandeld dient te worden na een birdstrike duidt er eveneens op dat het hierbij gaat om een omstandigheid die inherent is aan de normale uitoefening van het bedrijf van de luchtvaartmaatschappij..."
https://uitspraken.rechtspraak.nl/inzie ... :2016:5853

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Re: Ryanair in 2018

Post by KriVa » 01 Nov 2018, 16:36

A rather strange reasoning behind the verdict indeed.
“All engines out” is also a procedure described in the manual of every aircraft, though I’d doubt you’ll find any pilot describes it as a part of normal flight operations.
Thomas

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Re: Ryanair in 2018

Post by Passenger » 01 Nov 2018, 17:21

Passenger wrote:
01 Nov 2018, 12:04
Passenger wrote:
01 Nov 2018, 11:36
Passenger wrote:
18 Oct 2018, 08:49
Court case in Den Bosch (NL) today (18/10/2018): 13 Ryanair pilots demand that the court forbits Ryanair to close their base there, because that's done as a reaction to the past strike. Ryanair claims that Eindhoven base will be closed because of raising fuel prices, cheaper tickets and lower demand.
Court verdict: the judge forbits Ryanair to close its Eindhoven base!
https://www.nu.nl/ondernemen/5547032/ry ... uiten.html
Full verdict (in Dutch only):
https://uitspraken.rechtspraak.nl/inzie ... :2018:5330
Short statement from Ryanair: Ryanair will appeal to the court verdict and Ryanair will close Eindhoven on 6th November, as planned.

It's quite obvious that this verdict will not stand. Maybe Dutch appeal judges will support their colleagues, but a higher court (EU Court of Justice) will annull it. In a free market society, a judge has no jurisdiction about internal company policies. And unfortunately for the pilots, the above court verdict "Dutch labour legislation applies in the Netherlands" is based upon the judges' subjective and biased personal opinion. I can only hope for the pilots that the EU-Court withholds that part of the judgement (but we first have to await the Dutch appeal court verdict).

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