VLM (SHS Antwerp Aviation) news 2018 - 2019

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ironspan
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Re: VLM Airlines Regional (SHS Antwerp Aviation) news 2018

Post by ironspan » 27 Mar 2018, 13:00

Wouldn’t it be much better that they first focus on getting sufficient yield/load factors on their existing flights to ZRH, BHX, MUC, before embarking on a (costly) start-up of another new route? LCY is doing well, but the other destinations should still improve (which is surprising, given for example the much cheaper offer of VLM to ZRH versus SN or LX from BRU). From the past we know that MAN was successful from ANR, but a mid-day flight to OST needs to be build from scratch. Anyhow, we should give them time to grow their network, I would already be very pleased if they could sustain flying profitably to the current destinations (and maybe look for a codesharing with LX on ZRH, or LH on MUC), and by time switch to newer aircraft. Currently keeping one extra F50 as a back-up, is probably not a bad idea during the start-up of new routes (in case of technical problems, pax are stuck at ANR, there are no alternatives).

Avnu
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Re: VLM Airlines Regional (SHS Antwerp Aviation) news 2018

Post by Avnu » 27 Mar 2018, 14:39

I'm not sure where this idea comes from that VLM is much cheaper than Swiss to ZRH. I can fly LX next Wednesday return for 138 euro with a choice of flights including the first one out and last one in. And I can do so on most days. Or stay 1 night or more. Sure, it's hand luggage only at that price but that shouldn't be too big a problem for a quick business trip. And that means VLM is charging 20 euro less. Hard to change habits at that price.

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sn26567
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Re: VLM Airlines Regional (SHS Antwerp Aviation) news 2018

Post by sn26567 » 27 Mar 2018, 15:17

ironspan wrote:
27 Mar 2018, 13:00
(and maybe look for a codesharing with LX on ZRH, or LH on MUC)
Exactly. Like bmi when they flew from LGG to MUC in codeshare with LH.

Now, VLM is a point-to-point airline. I doubt that there are any passengers changing planes at ANR. A codeshare with LH would give them access to the LH long-haul network at MUC (as well from ANR as from MBX). Idem for a codeshare with LX at ZRH.

But I doubt that anybody in the LH Group will want to codeshare with an airline that is essentially a competitor! Thus VLM is condemned to stand alone, or to codeshare with SkyTeam or oneworld airlines to whose hubs they don't fly!!!
André
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ironspan
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Re: VLM Airlines Regional (SHS Antwerp Aviation) news 2018

Post by ironspan » 27 Mar 2018, 15:22

Thx Avnu, then LX has adjusted its prices recently, because a few weeks ago a return trip was close to 500€ (if my source is correct). Obviously, this is not so good news for VLM, since they do not have the financial power of a Star-alliance partner with 5 flights/day from BRU with jet aircraft. Maybe better to go for codesharing, which would give ANR an access gate to the rest of the world thru the LX network.

AAI
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Re: VLM Airlines Regional (SHS Antwerp Aviation) news 2018

Post by AAI » 27 Mar 2018, 17:29

if i want to go to ZRH tomorrow morning and come back on thursday evening
i 've to pay with Swiss : 1.183 € !
i 've to pay with VLM : 483 € !

FLYAIR10
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Re: VLM Airlines Regional (SHS Antwerp Aviation) news 2018

Post by FLYAIR10 » 27 Mar 2018, 17:40

by Avnu » 27 Mar 2018, 14:39
I'm not sure where this idea comes from that VLM is much cheaper than Swiss to ZRH. I can fly LX next Wednesday return for 138 euro with a choice of flights including the first one out and last one in. And I can do so on most days. Or stay 1 night or more. Sure, it's hand luggage only at that price but that shouldn't be too big a problem for a quick business trip. And that means VLM is charging 20 euro less. Hard to change habits at that price.
I assume you have booked this trip some time in advance.
A month ago it was almost impossible to book any short-term return below 1000 Euro.
Indeed, it seems Swiss has been lowering their tariffs on ZRH-BRU the last week on some days.(reaction to competition from VLM?)
However, if you are to travel at short notice to ZRH from Belgium , you still have to pay avbove 1000 EUR with Swiss,which is 3 times as much as with VLM. On top of that the parking at antwerp is cheaper and total travel time is less for people living/based near Antwerp or beyond.

b720
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Re: VLM Airlines Regional (SHS Antwerp Aviation) news 2018

Post by b720 » 27 Mar 2018, 19:07

Return same day end if april on Swiss EUR 780 (economy Light)
Same day return trip on VLM EUR 262 both searches
For April 20 return trip on the same day.

convair
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Re: VLM Airlines Regional (SHS Antwerp Aviation) news 2018

Post by convair » 27 Mar 2018, 20:52

ironspan wrote:
27 Mar 2018, 15:22
. Maybe better to go for codesharing, which would give ANR an access gate to the rest of the world thru the LX network.
As sn26567 wrote just before your post, why would any member of the LH group codeshare with a competitor of a sister company?

Moreover, airlines make money on their long-haul destinations and often accept negative return on their feeder flights. Is that what you suggest VLM to do; to become a feeder at lower than rockbottom prices?

jan_olieslagers
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Re: VLM Airlines Regional (SHS Antwerp Aviation) news 2018

Post by jan_olieslagers » 27 Mar 2018, 21:00

It is certainly not what made VLM's previous success: they scored best on one single high yield niche point-to-point business route. But yes, times do change, and so should businesses.

b720
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Re: VLM Airlines Regional (SHS Antwerp Aviation) news 2018

Post by b720 » 27 Mar 2018, 22:20

Any idea on How the MUC and ZRH routes are doing?

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sn26567
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Re: VLM Airlines Regional (SHS Antwerp Aviation) news 2018

Post by sn26567 » 27 Mar 2018, 23:45

I flew to and from MUC last week, when there was still only one daily flight. There were 9 pax outbound (including 3 to MBX) and 10 pax inbound (including 4 from MBX). Load factor respectively 18 and 20%.

I don't know actually how many pax flew between MUC and MBX.
André
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convair
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Re: VLM Airlines Regional (SHS Antwerp Aviation) news 2018

Post by convair » 27 Mar 2018, 23:51

jan_olieslagers wrote:
27 Mar 2018, 21:00
But yes, times do change, and so should businesses.
Sure, but to the non-expert that I am, it seems the fundamentals haven't changed much for that link: 2 no-hassle airports located close to city centers, low operating costs airline with little overheads... If they keep their customers happy with a good and reliable service, they can go a long way. Anyway, I do hope they will.

ironspan
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Re: VLM Airlines Regional (SHS Antwerp Aviation) news 2018

Post by ironspan » 27 Mar 2018, 23:54

1. Simple math: flying with 15 pax at 160€ each = 2.400€ or having 45 pax (feeder) at rockbottom 80€ per pax = 3.600€ with a very low-cost aircraft. Of course it would be better to get 45 pax at 160€, but the demand for point-to-point ANR-ZRH is not that strong. I wonder how many of the pax on the BRU-ZRH route really end up in Zurich...
2. If I would be a Star-Alliance partner, I would look at ANR to attract customers from the Southern part of Holland (just check how many Dutch people fly from ANR with TUIFly) and try to get pax from the backyard of the Skyteam territory😃
3. Swiss has a different network than SN, is for example stronger in East-Asia or East-Europe. So no direct competition.
4. It does not help that VLM is not part of any alliance. Many business passengers try to accumulate miles with the same alliance. If then the price difference is not so big, they will fly where they can get the best miles credits. Again a reason to go for codesharing for VLM, with an LX-flight number you can get Miles & More miles

Finally, also VOKA should be more actively promoting ANR direct service to ZRH and MUC. They were the ones who have advised VLM to start the routes, based on a survey conducted amongst their members. The business partners of VOKA then also have to ‘walk the talk’, and ‘gently’ push to fly VLM.

Mariborchanka
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Re: VLM Airlines Regional (SHS Antwerp Aviation) news 2018

Post by Mariborchanka » 28 Mar 2018, 00:18

sn26567 wrote:
27 Mar 2018, 23:45
I don't know actually how many pax flew between MUC and MBX.
Number of passengers for the first four weeks:

Image
___
prihodi (MUC-MBX) = arrivals
odhodi (MBX-MUC) = departures
odpovedan let = canceled flight
Sobota + nedelja (ni leta) = there is no flight on Saturday and Sunday

convair
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Re: VLM Airlines Regional (SHS Antwerp Aviation) news 2018

Post by convair » 28 Mar 2018, 00:53

ironspan wrote:
27 Mar 2018, 23:54
1. Simple math: flying with 15 pax at 160€ each = 2.400€ or having 45 pax (feeder) at rockbottom 80€ per pax = 3.600€ with a very low-cost aircraft. Of course it would be better to get 45 pax at 160€, but the demand for point-to-point ANR-ZRH is not that strong. I wonder how many of the pax on the BRU-ZRH route really end up in Zurich...
2. If I would be a Star-Alliance partner, I would look at ANR to attract customers from the Southern part of Holland (just check how many Dutch people fly from ANR with TUIFly) and try to get pax from the backyard of the Skyteam territory😃
3. Swiss has a different network than SN, is for example stronger in East-Asia or East-Europe. So no direct competition.
4. It does not help that VLM is not part of any alliance. Many business passengers try to accumulate miles with the same alliance. If then the price difference is not so big, they will fly where they can get the best miles credits. Again a reason to go for codesharing for VLM, with an LX-flight number you can get Miles & More miles

Finally, also VOKA should be more actively promoting ANR direct service to ZRH and MUC. They were the ones who have advised VLM to start the routes, based on a survey conducted amongst their members. The business partners of VOKA then also have to ‘walk the talk’, and ‘gently’ push to fly VLM.
Good points, but not fully convincing imho:
1. I don't know which amount LX would be ready to pay for the feeder segment; but it could be even much lower than the 80€ in your assumption; the O&D portion of the pax is indeed an important factor which VOKA should have addressed in their survey, and maybe they did but we don't know.
2. It's a tempting idea, of course, but even more tempting for a group that doesn't use an airport, could be to let it develop as slowly as possible. LH group is obviously focusing its Belgium activities on BRU, and only BRU.
3. True, but the competition, seen from the LH group perspective is between VLM and SN (or ANR and BRU) on the Belgium-ZRH segment.
4. You're absolutely right but, apparently, the alliances are not interested, for reasons given above.

Regarding the VOKA, it might be their role to do such surveys but these organizations do not usually take responsibility for the outcome of their suggestions. Or they might need some incentive to promote the flights.

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Re: VLM Airlines Regional (SHS Antwerp Aviation) news 2018

Post by sonic boom » 28 Mar 2018, 01:16

What I didn't understand, why didn't they take over the ANR - SIR route from PowdAir by flying ANR - ZRH - SIR. Are the pilot's not qualified enough to land at that airport? They would also solve the demand for the ZRH - SIR route.

Next to that they would fly 4 airports within 1 - 2 hours from major ski area's. Combined with free luggage, this seems an excellent addition to fill up planes. And also a clear market strategy towards leasure travelers. And for the SIR route, fares would be way lower than Powdair which were €300 roundtrip.

b720
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Re: VLM Airlines Regional (SHS Antwerp Aviation) news 2018

Post by b720 » 28 Mar 2018, 07:33

That would be a Swiss dimestic service. LX Will definitly block that if they consider VLM as competition to their BRU service.

b720
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Re: VLM Airlines Regional (SHS Antwerp Aviation) news 2018

Post by b720 » 28 Mar 2018, 07:36

sonic boom wrote:
28 Mar 2018, 01:16
What I didn't understand, why didn't they take over the ANR - SIR route from PowdAir by flying ANR - ZRH - SIR. Are the pilot's not qualified enough to land at that airport? They would also solve the demand for the ZRH - SIR route.

Next to that they would fly 4 airports within 1 - 2 hours from major ski area's. Combined with free luggage, this seems an excellent addition to fill up planes. And also a clear market strategy towards leasure travelers. And for the SIR route, fares would be way lower than Powdair which were €300 roundtrip.

SIR could be a destination on its own, specially week ends in the winter season..when most Vlm a/c are idle.
From ANR maybe other Belgian airports as well ..

VLM_Antwerp
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Re: VLM Airlines Regional (SHS Antwerp Aviation) news 2018

Post by VLM_Antwerp » 28 Mar 2018, 08:36

Mariborchanka wrote:
28 Mar 2018, 00:18
sn26567 wrote:
27 Mar 2018, 23:45
I don't know actually how many pax flew between MUC and MBX.
Number of passengers for the first four weeks:

Image
___
prihodi (MUC-MBX) = arrivals
odhodi (MBX-MUC) = departures
odpovedan let = canceled flight
Sobota + nedelja (ni leta) = there is no flight on Saturday and Sunday
Nice figure, terrible results though :cry:
Is their any information like this available on the Zurich, Munich and London route? I hope for VLM they reach higher load factors on those routes.

Avnu
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Re: VLM Airlines Regional (SHS Antwerp Aviation) news 2018

Post by Avnu » 28 Mar 2018, 09:07

Numbers to and from UK airports are published by the Civil Aviation Authority and thus public. They're shown as total number of passengers per route (arrivals plus departures) but lucky for us, there's only one operator on the ANR-LCY route and only one aircraft type.

So with that in mind: the latest numbers for LCY are those for February, showing 3117 passengers. Looking at Flightradar, VLM did 61 round trips that month meaning they offered a total of 6100 seats. That would come down to a load factor of just over 51 percent.

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