Brussels Airlines in 2018

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convair
Posts: 1762
Joined: 18 Nov 2011, 00:02

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by convair » 06 Feb 2018, 13:12

Inquirer wrote:
06 Feb 2018, 11:06
They just seem to want to finally run the place they own and which has already costed them a small fortune, themselves. And they apparently want to do it in order to run the place a bit more rational than it has been done so far, meaning more focus on their core businesses and strenghts, and more emphasis on making use of logical synergies which so far have been refused to be considered for no obvious reason but the almost childish desire to do all things alone, even if it means doing pretty much the same things twice: eurowings' business model as of today is pretty much that of brussels airlines in fact, apart from some details, or vice versa, as you wish: their apparent refusal not to call themselves a hybrid airline -while they really are- is just as childish as a reluctance to work with them because of that.
I fail to see where the management went wrong actually: SN expanded largely in the last few years, both in terms of destinations and seats capacity. Sure they didn't make a lot of money but still they made a small profit, which isn't so bad when you expand your activity with little means to start with; you need to create the business before reaping the profits, don't you. Is EW so profitable for the moment?

And the refusal to "make use of local synergies" isn't so obvious, imho. They made the TCB arrangement which shoud be a win-win project and they accepted the EW operation from DUS, maybe reluctantly- I don't know about that- but they did. I think Gustin was right to defend the scheme he believed in; every manager should do that. Maybe he was a bit too adamant in doing so, if you follow what Davignon said about irreconcilable personnalities.

Anyway, as I said before:
convair wrote:
06 Feb 2018, 00:35
Otoh, Gustin has probably given SN most of what he could bring and it's not a bad moment to make a management change. And when Christina Foerster was given the Commercial job last year, coming straight from the LH cradle, Gustin must have understood the purpose of that move.
And, maybe, Gustin realizing that he was going to be axed anyway tried to go as far as possible with his plans.

SabenaForever
Posts: 480
Joined: 24 Dec 2003, 00:00

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by SabenaForever » 06 Feb 2018, 13:16

sean1982 wrote:
06 Feb 2018, 13:02
Inquirer wrote:
06 Feb 2018, 12:43
Sir, it does not annoy me the slightest, but I fail to see why you think it should give you any extra credibity? Clearly you feel for yourself you are often struggling to come accross as anything convincing in these discussions. Maybe rather than trying to overbluff people you dont know at all with your professional background, you might consider the fact for a minute that you're not the only person in the world who has set some initial steps on the ladder of hierarchy and that some Belgians actually hold very senior positions at multinationals far bigger than your employer and that they may just be interested in aviation too and thus come over here from time to time, shedding some light and sharing their point-of-view too.
Not to be disrespectful to you, sir, but just saying that the chance that you'd actually be reporting (via others even) to several people who occasionally post here to be far bigger than them ever having to report to you, should they decide to take up equivalent positions they now hold, at your employer.
Just search your posts and analysis about Brussels airlines over the last couple of years and mine. I rest my case. “Your position on the ladder” doesn’t interest me in the slightest (and neither does mine)
Please, fight your disputes in private messages. Nobody cares. This is about Brussels Airlines, nothing else. thanks

Stij
Posts: 2198
Joined: 07 Mar 2005, 00:00
Location: Belgium

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Stij » 06 Feb 2018, 14:03

SabenaForever wrote:
06 Feb 2018, 13:16
Please, fight your disputes in private messages. Nobody cares. This is about Brussels Airlines, nothing else. thanks
Thank-you SabenaForever!!!!

Stij

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CTBke
Posts: 1082
Joined: 13 May 2003, 00:00

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by CTBke » 06 Feb 2018, 14:20

What is likely going to happen with the wetlease contracts SN has at this moment ? ( BMI and WX) Will Lufthansa replace it with their own metal from Cityline, the Q400's from LGW or just keep it ?
Citybird
The flying dream

Ansett
Posts: 409
Joined: 13 Apr 2016, 19:12

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Ansett » 06 Feb 2018, 15:30

Today, the Flemish daily newspaper, De Morgen, quoted columnist Guillaume Van der Stighelen : "What you sell, is no longer yours". That says it all and is a good summary of the situation : Brussels Airlines does not belong to us anymore. The new owner can do what he wants with his new acquisition. We have to accept this and learn to live with it. Too bad, but that's the way it is.

The fifty or so Belgian captains of industry who signed a letter of support for Gustin and De Raeymakers should have put money on the table when it was necessary to keep SN Belgian, but nobody was prepared to take the smallest financial risk except LH. They own SN now. It's their property. They can do as they like (even if we don't like it).

convair
Posts: 1762
Joined: 18 Nov 2011, 00:02

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by convair » 06 Feb 2018, 15:40

CTBke wrote:
06 Feb 2018, 14:20
What is likely going to happen with the wetlease contracts SN has at this moment ? ( BMI and WX) Will Lufthansa replace it with their own metal from Cityline, the Q400's from LGW or just keep it ?
I assume SN has contracts with them for a certain period, so they will go on as SN still legally exists as a belgian company.
After that, SN will have several options: renew the contract(s); use other sub-contractors; use LH metal; drop these lines etc...

Passenger
Posts: 6316
Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Passenger » 06 Feb 2018, 15:45

Av24.be wrote:
05 Feb 2018, 13:40
Congolese civil aviation authorities have decided to reduce the daily Brussels Airlines flights to Kinshasa to 4 per week with immediate effect..
https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/lufth ... te-effect/
Update and opinion Radio Okapi: "...Le plus grand perdant, c’est le Congolais..."
https://www.radiookapi.net/2018/02/06/ ... s-analyste

Poiu
Posts: 626
Joined: 14 Nov 2015, 09:38

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Poiu » 06 Feb 2018, 15:48

Ansett wrote:
06 Feb 2018, 15:30

The fifty or so Belgian captains of industry who signed a letter of support for Gustin and De Raeymakers should have put money on the table when it was necessary to keep SN Belgian, but nobody was prepared to take the smallest financial risk except LH. They own SN now. It's their property. They can do as they like (even if we don't like it).
They didn’t sign a letter of support for Gustin and De Raeymaker, they signed a letter to support a strong airline with a base in Brussels.

Deejay
Posts: 11
Joined: 06 Feb 2018, 09:20

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Deejay » 06 Feb 2018, 16:05

hello
i am new here, and do not have any professional experience in the airline business. so, sorry if I ask silly questions ....
nevertheless, i am an airline customer, and FTL with M&M...
i acquired this status mainly with LX and OS, and I must tell you that if I have the choice between one of these two and SN, i do not hesitate, I take the first choice.
As a customer, I do not believe in the so called "hybrid" model = normal price, but low service
Why can't SN evolve to something like the two other cousins; and have the low cost side of the hybrid model evolve to EW ?
Have the people at LH said that there is no place for a belgian based premium carrier, and why can they operate premium carriers in ZRH and VIE, and not possible in the capital of the EU, strange, no ?

Poiu
Posts: 626
Joined: 14 Nov 2015, 09:38

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Poiu » 06 Feb 2018, 16:10

Bralo20 wrote:
05 Feb 2018, 20:02
On the other hand, the whole thing is quite weird. It's like they adopted Gustin's vision for the future but that they went ahead with the terminations to save face. The fact that both "support" the transition suggests that they probably got a huge bonus to go away without making to much fuss.

Could be that the board meeting went against Spohr's wishes after all, we'll probably never know...

Just saying ;)
I don’t think so, tomorrow ‘s news will tell us. I just had a look at my crystal ball: EW will grow in Brussels, SN will be long haul only, job losses in the offices are unavoidable.

Ansett
Posts: 409
Joined: 13 Apr 2016, 19:12

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Ansett » 06 Feb 2018, 16:19

Poiu wrote:
06 Feb 2018, 15:48
Ansett wrote:
06 Feb 2018, 15:30

The fifty or so Belgian captains of industry who signed a letter of support for Gustin and De Raeymakers should have put money on the table when it was necessary to keep SN Belgian, but nobody was prepared to take the smallest financial risk except LH. They own SN now. It's their property. They can do as they like (even if we don't like it).
They didn’t sign a letter of support for Gustin and De Raeymaker, they signed a letter to support a strong airline with a base in Brussels.
You are right, Poiu. My mistake. However, it does not change anything to the heart ot the matter : where were these captains of Belgian industry, especially the heavy-weights, when SN needed investment to keep SN Belgian or to keep a majority vote in the Board ?

Passenger
Posts: 6316
Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Passenger » 06 Feb 2018, 16:22

Deejay wrote:
06 Feb 2018, 16:05
As a customer, I do not believe in the so called "hybrid" model = normal price, but low service.
Actually, "Brussels Airlines is a hybrid airline" means they combine the possibility for low cost fares for their short haul flights (= to compete against Ryanair and other low-cost-only carriers) with normal fares for their long haul flights (India, Africa) and for non-competing routes.

Homo Aeroportus
Posts: 1076
Joined: 24 Feb 2007, 18:28
Location: 2300NM due South of North Pole

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Homo Aeroportus » 06 Feb 2018, 16:27

Actually hybrid model in short haul, no?

You can buy a ticket for full service in the front cabin and backpackers find what they look for in the back of the cabin.
Isn't this mix, on the same flight, what is referred to as hybrid?

H.A.

Passenger
Posts: 6316
Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Passenger » 06 Feb 2018, 16:34

Homo Aeroportus wrote:
06 Feb 2018, 16:27
Actually hybrid model in short haul, no?
You can buy a ticket for full service in the front cabin and backpackers find what they look for in the back of the cabin.
Isn't this mix, on the same flight, what is referred to as hybrid?
Yes, but when you talk about "hybrid" as airline concept, you have to include long haul too.

b720
Posts: 855
Joined: 04 May 2006, 00:00

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by b720 » 06 Feb 2018, 16:36

SN is already An LCC on the short haul sector.
They have have recently eliminated dedicated catering for C class pax.
They are given the menu card of Lite service instead and offered to choose (without paying).

evyncke
Posts: 72
Joined: 27 Mar 2016, 19:28

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by evyncke » 06 Feb 2018, 17:03

Deejay wrote:
06 Feb 2018, 16:05
Have the people at LH said that there is no place for a belgian based premium carrier, and why can they operate premium carriers in ZRH and VIE, and not possible in the capital of the EU, strange, no ?
Beside the language shared by LH, OS and LX (and possibly mentality and having more than 1 SN domestic airport), this is indeed an obvious question which really puzzles me...

What about Star Alliance ?
And now talking as a Star Alliance Gold (on UA), I really wonder whether Eurowings/Belgium will keep the Gold benefits: miles, lounge access, priority boarding, fast lane, ... this is really important when you travel a lot... And, my experience with Eurowings has been very negative on the above points :-(

Stij
Posts: 2198
Joined: 07 Mar 2005, 00:00
Location: Belgium

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Stij » 06 Feb 2018, 17:07

Deejay wrote:
06 Feb 2018, 16:05
hello
i am new here, and do not have any professional experience in the airline business. so, sorry if I ask silly questions ....
nevertheless, i am an airline customer, and FTL with M&M...
i acquired this status mainly with LX and OS, and I must tell you that if I have the choice between one of these two and SN, i do not hesitate, I take the first choice.
As a customer, I do not believe in the so called "hybrid" model = normal price, but low service
Why can't SN evolve to something like the two other cousins; and have the low cost side of the hybrid model evolve to EW ?
Have the people at LH said that there is no place for a belgian based premium carrier, and why can they operate premium carriers in ZRH and VIE, and not possible in the capital of the EU, strange, no ?
Welcome to our forum Deejay!!!
I must admit I kind of share your opinion: SN sometimes asks 280€ for a round trip in check and go... as you wrote... normal price... low service...

Stij

FLYAIR10
Posts: 479
Joined: 08 Sep 2008, 22:05

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by FLYAIR10 » 06 Feb 2018, 17:24

What about Eurowings and CARGO ? at first sight I didn't find any trace of Cargo-operations on the Eurowings website...
Are all the EW-flights open for carrying cargo ?
And is the belly space marketed by LH maybe?

If I remember well SN is getting an important part of its revenue from Freight,especially in the Africa operation.
What would be the future for SN 'cargo' in an Eurowings context?

Bralo20
Posts: 1432
Joined: 12 Aug 2008, 13:48

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Bralo20 » 06 Feb 2018, 18:13

FLYAIR10 wrote:
06 Feb 2018, 17:24
What about Eurowings and CARGO ? at first sight I didn't find any trace of Cargo-operations on the Eurowings website...
Are all the EW-flights open for carrying cargo ?
And is the belly space marketed by LH maybe?

If I remember well SN is getting an important part of its revenue from Freight,especially in the Africa operation.
What would be the future for SN 'cargo' in an Eurowings context?
Lufthansa Cargo:

https://lufthansa-cargo.com/-/lufthansa ... -to-market

Passenger
Posts: 6316
Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Passenger » 06 Feb 2018, 18:38

These are my conclusions from last weekend and Monday:

1. total madness from the trade unions, who must have known what was on table, but yet tried to put the house on fire. Only excuse for their stupid behaviour: they wanted to overclass each other.

2. total failure of the main stream media, who believed every single word that the unions told them and who failed with the basic principle of journalism: double check your sources.

3. regarding this forum and this topic: three glory days for a handfull of Brussels Airlines haters, however ending with a unbelievable disappointment for them on Monday evening.

3. what a relief that our travel & aviation journalists countered the unions and the main stream media.

4. Employment in Belgian aviation was saved, once again, by one very senior citizen: 85-year old Etienne Davignon.

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