Brussels Airlines in 2018

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brabel
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by brabel » 22 Nov 2018, 16:56

So for next summer season, SN isn't adding any new destinations, except for Kiev en Wroclaw that start this winter.
There are some extra frequencies on African destinations (Monrovia, Freetown (both probably because KLM is leaving these destinations), Accra, Lomé) and some European routes.

Shame there are no "new" routes anounced....

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luchtzak
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by luchtzak » 22 Nov 2018, 17:06

brabel wrote:
22 Nov 2018, 16:56
So for next summer season, SN isn't adding any new destinations, except for Kiev en Wroclaw that start this winter.
There are some extra frequencies on African destinations (Monrovia, Freetown (both probably because KLM is leaving these destinations), Accra, Lomé) and some European routes.

Shame there are no "new" routes anounced....
Full press release= https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/luft ... tinations/

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by sn26567 » 22 Nov 2018, 21:46

luchtzak wrote:
22 Nov 2018, 17:06
brabel wrote:
22 Nov 2018, 16:56
So for next summer season, SN isn't adding any new destinations, except for Kiev en Wroclaw that start this winter.
There are some extra frequencies on African destinations (Monrovia, Freetown (both probably because KLM is leaving these destinations), Accra, Lomé) and some European routes.

Shame there are no "new" routes anounced....
Full press release= https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/luft ... tinations/
I quote: "Brussels Airlines increases its flight frequencies to African destinations Accra, Freetown, Lomé and Monrovia to offer more flexibility and even better connecting options."

Seriously, Mr Spohr, is that a characteristic of a network airline or a low-cost carrier?
André
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cathay belgium
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by cathay belgium » 22 Nov 2018, 22:25

Hi,

Guess Africa will be Lufthansa operated by Brussels Airlines in SN livery .. with good connections to FRA-MUC.

All the rest will be Eurowings low cost ...

So the money spend is less and AFI will get used to Lufthansa...

Aren't they ,us belgians, getting used to Eurowings nowadays ... even to New York now !

CXB
New types 2018 : AN140-B1900D-Bell212-Bergfalke4-B772LR-A320NEO-YAK42

Passenger
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Passenger » 22 Nov 2018, 22:57

sn26567 wrote:
22 Nov 2018, 21:46
Seriously, Mr Spohr, is that a characteristic of a network airline or a low-cost carrier?
What you have sold, isn't yours anymore. Lufthansa and/or Eurowings and/or Carsten Spohr and/or Thorsten Dirks do with Brussels Airlines whatever they think that is the best for the whole group. Actually, it's Africa that keeps Brussels Airlines in the air. The yield is superb, mainly because competion is low.

The staff I know from Brussels Airlines don't care how their airline is categorized on this forum = network airline or low cost airline. All they see is more passengers, more flights and larger aircraft.

Stij
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Stij » 23 Nov 2018, 05:39

Passenger wrote:
22 Nov 2018, 22:57
sn26567 wrote:
22 Nov 2018, 21:46
Seriously, Mr Spohr, is that a characteristic of a network airline or a low-cost carrier?
What you have sold, isn't yours anymore. Lufthansa and/or Eurowings and/or Carsten Spohr and/or Thorsten Dirks do with Brussels Airlines whatever they think that is the best for the whole group. Actually, it's Africa that keeps Brussels Airlines in the air. The yield is superb, mainly because competion is low.

The staff I know from Brussels Airlines don't care how their airline is categorized on this forum = network airline or low cost airline. All they see is more passengers, more flights and larger aircraft.
Africa requires per definition connections and therefore... network carrier... When the shareholder wants SN to be a PTP carrier... that could be the prelude to a consolidation of the hubs in FRA or MUC and then it s bye bye more passengers.

Funny... the staff I know aren’t that enthusiast... especially on the assimilation to Eurowings...

The reason I care is that to me the problem with ptp carriers is that they fly every bloody island in the Mediterranean but not to business destinations... the ones our non aviation companies need... large and small...

Cheers,

Stij
See where I've flown at OpenFlights!

Poiu
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Poiu » 23 Nov 2018, 08:40

sn26567 wrote:
22 Nov 2018, 21:46

Seriously, Mr Spohr, is that a characteristic of a network airline or a low-cost carrier?
SN tried to be a network airline, but failed, without state aid and LH this topic would not even exist as the airline would be history since long.
You have to accept it will be the German way or no way.
Eurowings or no Wings, the choice is yours, but please don’t shoot the messenger!

Stij
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Stij » 23 Nov 2018, 09:02

Poiu wrote:
23 Nov 2018, 08:40
SN tried to be a network airline, but failed, without state aid and LH this topic would not even exist as the airline would be history since long.
You have to accept it will be the German way or no way.
Eurowings or no Wings, the choice is yours, but please don’t shoot the messenger!
And circumstances of course never change...

The fleet is much more efficient than before… the loadfactor is much higher… The airline is profitable… Part thanks to the Germans and their money, for sure! Even Spohr recently admitted Brussels Airlines is doing very good work… why change a winning team?

The SN of today is not a ptp airline but at least a hybrid, whenever I fly them, there's always a lot of connecting people, especially to / from Africa but also intra-Europe...

Maybe Eurowings should be integrated in SN? For the moment SN is doing way better than Eurowings.

Cheers,

Stij
See where I've flown at OpenFlights!

sean1982
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by sean1982 » 23 Nov 2018, 09:16

Passenger wrote:
22 Nov 2018, 22:57


The staff I know from Brussels Airlines don't care how their airline is categorized on this forum = network airline or low cost airline. All they see is more passengers, more flights and larger aircraft.
Then, like André, I am also talking to other people than you are. Most people I know want out and are looking elsewhere.

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by sn26567 » 23 Nov 2018, 10:15

Two days ago I was flying EDI-BRU on SN. A large number of passengers were connecting in BRU to a score of European destinations and to TLV. I ask again: network airline or point-to-point? Carsten Spohr is of bad faith if he doesn't realise this.
André
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FLYAIR10
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by FLYAIR10 » 23 Nov 2018, 11:43

Two days ago I was flying EDI-BRU on SN. A large number of passengers were connecting in BRU to a score of European destinations and to TLV. I ask again: network airline or point-to-point? Carsten Spohr is of bad faith if he doesn't realise this.
Valid point indeed.
Last year(sept) we came back from Faro and I was surprised to hear the number of intra-European connections being called off; VIE(SN & OS flights),HAM,CPH,MUC,MAN,MIL,GOT,BMA,...

Plane was close to full; So I believe connecting- and PTP-passengers are complementary and make even low yield 'holiday-destination' routes profitable.

Poiu
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Poiu » 23 Nov 2018, 12:19

FLYAIR10 wrote:
23 Nov 2018, 11:43
Two days ago I was flying EDI-BRU on SN. A large number of passengers were connecting in BRU to a score of European destinations and to TLV. I ask again: network airline or point-to-point? Carsten Spohr is of bad faith if he doesn't realise this.
Valid point indeed.
Last year(sept) we came back from Faro and I was surprised to hear the number of intra-European connections being called off; VIE(SN & OS flights),HAM,CPH,MUC,MAN,MIL,GOT,BMA,...

Plane was close to full; So I believe connecting- and PTP-passengers are complementary and make even low yield 'holiday-destination' routes profitable.
Connecting passengers are low yield, a ticket CDG-BRU-AFI is often cheaper than BRU-AFI on the same flight.
Same with intra-European connections, you fill your aircraft, but are loosing money.

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Conti764 » 23 Nov 2018, 12:24

Poiu wrote:
23 Nov 2018, 08:40
sn26567 wrote:
22 Nov 2018, 21:46

Seriously, Mr Spohr, is that a characteristic of a network airline or a low-cost carrier?
SN tried to be a network airline, but failed, without state aid and LH this topic would not even exist as the airline would be history since long.
You have to accept it will be the German way or no way.
Eurowings or no Wings, the choice is yours, but please don’t shoot the messenger!
SN was founded about the time the worst financial crisis in ages started and trough this globally challenging time was flying old, thirsty birds as a de facto stand alone carrier.

No wonder they had a hard time making money. SN Brussels Airlines was running a profit before the merger with Virgin Express.

The reason why SN is the only asset of the Eurowings Group performing well, is because they are a network carrier. And when even the historically underperforming European network is turning a profit, LH should realise SN has more to offer to the group then just being a low cost airline.

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Conti764 » 23 Nov 2018, 12:25

Poiu wrote:
23 Nov 2018, 12:19
FLYAIR10 wrote:
23 Nov 2018, 11:43
Two days ago I was flying EDI-BRU on SN. A large number of passengers were connecting in BRU to a score of European destinations and to TLV. I ask again: network airline or point-to-point? Carsten Spohr is of bad faith if he doesn't realise this.
Valid point indeed.
Last year(sept) we came back from Faro and I was surprised to hear the number of intra-European connections being called off; VIE(SN & OS flights),HAM,CPH,MUC,MAN,MIL,GOT,BMA,...

Plane was close to full; So I believe connecting- and PTP-passengers are complementary and make even low yield 'holiday-destination' routes profitable.
Connecting passengers are low yield, a ticket CDG-BRU-AFI is often cheaper than BRU-AFI on the same flight.
Same with intra-European connections, you fill your aircraft, but are loosing money.
Yet again, SN is making money intra Europe as well.

Stij
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Stij » 23 Nov 2018, 12:45

Poiu wrote:
23 Nov 2018, 12:19

Connecting passengers are low yield, a ticket CDG-BRU-AFI is often cheaper than BRU-AFI on the same flight.
Same with intra-European connections, you fill your aircraft, but are loosing money.
And without connections you won t fill it and loose even more... especially on long haul...

Stij
See where I've flown at OpenFlights!

Poiu
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Poiu » 23 Nov 2018, 13:40

Stij wrote:
23 Nov 2018, 12:45
Poiu wrote:
23 Nov 2018, 12:19

Connecting passengers are low yield, a ticket CDG-BRU-AFI is often cheaper than BRU-AFI on the same flight.
Same with intra-European connections, you fill your aircraft, but are loosing money.
And without connections you won t fill it and loose even more... especially on long haul...

Stij
And that is exactly why the unsustainable growth of SN has been halted by the Germans.

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b.lufthansa
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by b.lufthansa » 23 Nov 2018, 13:57

Correct, I also strongly doubt the point-to-point concept for Brussels Airlines that Eurowings wants to impose. The lack of news only confirms that management has doubts on the future way to go.

convair
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by convair » 23 Nov 2018, 15:47

b.lufthansa wrote:
23 Nov 2018, 13:57
Correct, I also strongly doubt the point-to-point concept for Brussels Airlines that Eurowings wants to impose. The lack of news only confirms that management has doubts on the future way to go.
Let's hope so. As someone wrote above, things and circumstances change. SN's new CEO, COO and CFO are probably doing a detailed analysis of the performance on each destination, including for connecting flights and their pricing. It's not an easy task but it's their job.

Provided there isn't too much interference from HQ, they should be able to take the right decisions. We'll see. 8-)

Inquirer
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Inquirer » 23 Nov 2018, 18:02

As to the repeated statement that the airline is now profitable also on its regional routes: let's not forget the backoffice integration is reportedly in full wing and so I assume this drives overhead cost down.
As a stand alone, these costs would rise again, negatively impacting the bottom line of course.
The benefit of scale is likely what makes all the difference at b.air at present.

As to the product and network strategy of the bigger group:
I think eurowings alone would do well being more like b.air.
Question is: are they allowed within the group?
One can imagine Lufthansa is not too keen to see internal competition from them on the network side, hence them being oriented towards complementary markets only, quite clearly.

Stij
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Stij » 25 Nov 2018, 09:20

Inquirer wrote:
23 Nov 2018, 18:02
One can imagine Lufthansa is not too keen to see internal competition from them on the network side, hence them being oriented towards complementary markets only, quite clearly.
Why? I don’t think LH cares wether you fly via MUC or FRA as long as you fly them!

Stij
See where I've flown at OpenFlights!

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