Brussels Airlines in 2018

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Bralo20
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Joined: 12 Aug 2008, 13:48

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Bralo20 »

JustPlanes wrote: 03 Feb 2018, 02:04 OK I'm dreaming a bit now.... but Belgium should bring SABENA back this year and slowly start putting the airline back on track... so the country can have a National airline... Go talk to Al Bakker :) he has enough money and I don't think he's particularly friends with LH.... He just put money into Meridiana to get a gig in Italy... maybe he wants to put money into an airline in Belgium... He has enough planes too and he can set up a hub in Brussels...
Unfortunately the Sabena brand is owned by Lufthansa now. A few years ago the brand was transferred from Sabena NV in liquidation to SN Airholding NV and thus the current owner is the Lufthansa group. Since LH wants to transform SN into an LCC there no chance in hell that they'll revive the Sabena brand.

Bralo20
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Bralo20 »

Het Nieuwsblad also picked the story up:

http://www.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20180202_03336847

(In Dutch)

And so did HLN:

https://www.hln.be/geld/onrust-groot-bi ... t~a6832c63

(Dutch)

Also De Standaard, etc...

brabel
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Joined: 17 Jun 2015, 10:51

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by brabel »

So the article says Gustin is disappointed in d'Avignon and LH wants to move the intercontinental flights to FRA? :|
I'm quite shocked

nordikcam
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by nordikcam »

brabel wrote: 03 Feb 2018, 09:43 So the article says Gustin is disappointed in d'Avignon and LH wants to move the intercontinental flights to FRA? :|
I'm quite shocked
So...bye bye Sn and bye bye BRU for long haul ? Big news !

CRJ 900
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by CRJ 900 »

nordikcam wrote: 03 Feb 2018, 10:27
brabel wrote: 03 Feb 2018, 09:43 So the article says Gustin is disappointed in d'Avignon and LH wants to move the intercontinental flights to FRA? :|
I'm quite shocked
So...bye bye Sn and bye bye BRU for long haul ? Big news !
Unfortunately it looks so. An inside source told me that the LH direction is considering to move the whole Africa operations to FRA. I couldn´t believe it, but apparently it might come true. Sad, very sad. And awful news for SN and BRU.
Really hope someone has enough power to oppose this!
I ´m flying tens of years as well LH, SN, LX as even EW and always as a happy, satisfied customer, but this decision is so wrong if it turns out to be true. In latest LH inflight magazine Mr Spohr mentioned in his welcome word EW and SN as ´secondary airlines´. That language... Really shows respect for the SN people and passangers :evil:
Rgds,
CRJ 900

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Conti764 »

Boavida wrote: 02 Feb 2018, 22:27 I remember Carsten Spohr saying at the time of the full takeover that if they would change the name of the company "it would be a better one with a Belgian touch".

I don't see Eurowings have any Belgian touch... Is Spohr just a liar?
Basicly, yes. He doesn't care about what he said to Belgian newspapers somewhere in the winter of 2017.

He's German, Lufthansa is German, the board is German and like it has always been for those guys: Deutschland über alles.

EW will succeed and if he has to axe some Belgian company for it: he doesn't care. Even being hated in Belgium, if any, he wouldn't care.

I don't know what is possible now, but maybe BRU should reconsider its position towards Air Belgium and in time, transfer all traffic rights from SN(EW) to AB.

Like I've said many times: LH has no reason to acquire SN but to kill of possible competition and fence off its backyard.

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Conti764 »

CRJ 900 wrote: 03 Feb 2018, 11:24
nordikcam wrote: 03 Feb 2018, 10:27
brabel wrote: 03 Feb 2018, 09:43 So the article says Gustin is disappointed in d'Avignon and LH wants to move the intercontinental flights to FRA? :|
I'm quite shocked
So...bye bye Sn and bye bye BRU for long haul ? Big news !
Unfortunately it looks so. An inside source told me that the LH direction is considering to move the whole Africa operations to FRA. I couldn´t believe it, but apparently it might come true. Sad, very sad. And awful news for SN and BRU.
Really hope someone has enough power to oppose this!
I ´m flying tens of years as well LH, SN, LX as even EW and always as a happy, satisfied customer, but this decision is so wrong if it turns out to be true. In latest LH inflight magazine Mr Spohr mentioned in his welcome word EW and SN as ´secondary airlines´. That language... Really shows respect for the SN people and passangers :evil:
Rgds,
CRJ 900
How can LH move the Africa operations to FRA if these are subject to Belgian bilaterals?

And even if they could, these bilaterals 'stay in Belgium', ideal moment to shift them to another airline (I hear Air Belgium knocking on the door?)

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Yuqu12
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Yuqu12 »

Another option could be Europe and other (German) airlines: if LH transfers all Africa and other long haul flights to FRA, there is hardly competition in Europe. Not sure whether the Comission would like this...

CRJ 900
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by CRJ 900 »

Conti764 wrote: 03 Feb 2018, 11:34
CRJ 900 wrote: 03 Feb 2018, 11:24
nordikcam wrote: 03 Feb 2018, 10:27

So...bye bye Sn and bye bye BRU for long haul ? Big news !
Unfortunately it looks so. An inside source told me that the LH direction is considering to move the whole Africa operations to FRA. I couldn´t believe it, but apparently it might come true. Sad, very sad. And awful news for SN and BRU.
Really hope someone has enough power to oppose this!
I ´m flying tens of years as well LH, SN, LX as even EW and always as a happy, satisfied customer, but this decision is so wrong if it turns out to be true. In latest LH inflight magazine Mr Spohr mentioned in his welcome word EW and SN as ´secondary airlines´. That language... Really shows respect for the SN people and passangers :evil:
Rgds,
CRJ 900
How can LH move the Africa operations to FRA if these are subject to Belgian bilaterals?

And even if they could, these bilaterals 'stay in Belgium', ideal moment to shift them to another airline (I hear Air Belgium knocking on the door?)
Hi Conti764,
I have no knowledge on the traffic rights issues: just a simple frequent flyer. ;)
But the guy I talked with seemed to be very sure about this. Is there a way they can obtain or take over these rights?
But as said before: I hope for everybody in BRU all this is just gossip and not true.
Rgds
CRJ 900

Homo Aeroportus
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Homo Aeroportus »

Lufthansa to decide on 27 April whether to take over all of Brussels Airlines
Post by Inquirer » 27 Apr 2016,
The article in De Tijd now mentions the fact that the odd extension by just 3 months (rather than simply wait till next year like I had expected) is a clear sign the decision is taken in principle.

Air Belgium: a rebirth?
Post by sn26567 » 24 Jun 2016,
What is this?
http://airbelgium.com/

Aviation24.be Home page
By André Orban 31 January, 2018
Air Belgium will launch its flights to Asia from Brussels South Charleroi Airport (BSCA), the start-up announced in a press conference this morning.


Brussels Airlines in 2018
Post by brabel » 03 Feb 2018, 09:43
So the article says Gustin is disappointed in d'Avignon and LH wants to move the intercontinental flights to FRA?


Brussels Airlines in 2018
Post by Conti764 » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:34 am
How can LH move the Africa operations to FRA if these are subject to Belgian bilaterals?
And even if they could, these bilaterals 'stay in Belgium', ideal moment to shift them to another airline (I hear Air Belgium knocking on the door?)


Air Belgium: a rebirth?
Post by carllegein » 31 Jan 2018, 20:33
I have the privilege working with Niky Terzakis. He is one of the exceptional great minds in aviation. I would not underestimate his strategic plans. A blessing for belgian aviation !


Yours Truly 2018-02-03 :
+1

H.A.

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Yuqu12
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Yuqu12 »

I think the only way to take over these bilateral rights is that LH concludes bilateral agreements with the African countries and that the African States end the bilateral agreements with SN.

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Conti764 »

CRJ 900 wrote: 03 Feb 2018, 11:50
Conti764 wrote: 03 Feb 2018, 11:34
CRJ 900 wrote: 03 Feb 2018, 11:24

Unfortunately it looks so. An inside source told me that the LH direction is considering to move the whole Africa operations to FRA. I couldn´t believe it, but apparently it might come true. Sad, very sad. And awful news for SN and BRU.
Really hope someone has enough power to oppose this!
I ´m flying tens of years as well LH, SN, LX as even EW and always as a happy, satisfied customer, but this decision is so wrong if it turns out to be true. In latest LH inflight magazine Mr Spohr mentioned in his welcome word EW and SN as ´secondary airlines´. That language... Really shows respect for the SN people and passangers :evil:
Rgds,
CRJ 900
How can LH move the Africa operations to FRA if these are subject to Belgian bilaterals?

And even if they could, these bilaterals 'stay in Belgium', ideal moment to shift them to another airline (I hear Air Belgium knocking on the door?)
Hi Conti764,
I have no knowledge on the traffic rights issues: just a simple frequent flyer. ;)
But the guy I talked with seemed to be very sure about this. Is there a way they can obtain or take over these rights?
But as said before: I hope for everybody in BRU all this is just gossip and not true.
Rgds
CRJ 900
Neither am I ;)

But as far as I know, traffic rights are subject to bilaterals signed between country X and country Y. Belgium has a lot of bilaterals with different African countries which SN uses. I even think they just state 'traffic rights between an airport in Belgium and an airport in, f.e. DR Congo,...'

Correct my if I'm wrong.

ZavCity
Posts: 270
Joined: 11 Nov 2014, 17:58

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by ZavCity »

I don' t think African countries will object to LH/EW coming to their airports..For them a plane is a plane, revenues will be the same..For BRU it will be the end of speculations concerning the expansions..Will be a quieter airport than CRL!!bad bad news IF confirmed..
gtz
paul

Boavida
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Boavida »

Conti764 wrote: 03 Feb 2018, 11:30

I don't know what is possible now, but maybe BRU should reconsider its position towards Air Belgium and in time, transfer all traffic rights from SN(EW) to AB.
Exactly.

If this worst case scenario is true, the situation is as dramatic for the country as the bankruptcy of Sabena. I hope all alarm bells at the government are ringing!! We don't only lose our national airline, but also the position of BRU as a (medium) hub!

If Belgians are thrown away like trash at the LH Group, we still have some power we can use through BRU.

Like Conti said: BRU should reconsider its position towards Air Belgium, even roll out the red carpet (also for VLM). If we lose SN, AB could be the distant light at the horizon. If SN becomes a second Ryanair, why can't AB become the new national carrier and adopt the same (successful) hybrid business model of ex-Brussels Airlines?

The Belgian govt should call for a 'staten generaal-etats generaux' of the Belgian business world together with BRU. Aren't there big Belgian companies that want to invest in a new national carrier? Like AB Inbev for example? Just thinking out loud. Action is needed.

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Conti764 »

Boavida wrote: 03 Feb 2018, 12:17
Conti764 wrote: 03 Feb 2018, 11:30

I don't know what is possible now, but maybe BRU should reconsider its position towards Air Belgium and in time, transfer all traffic rights from SN(EW) to AB.
Exactly.

If this worst case scenario is true, the situation is as dramatic for the country as the bankruptcy of Sabena. I hope all alarm bells at the government are ringing!! We don't only lose our national airline, but also the position of BRU as a (medium) hub!

If Belgians are thrown away like trash at the LH Group, we still have some power we can use through BRU.

Like Conti said: BRU should reconsider its position towards Air Belgium, even roll out the red carpet (also for VLM). If we lose SN, AB could be the distant light at the horizon. If SN becomes a second Ryanair, why can't AB become the new national carrier?

The Belgian govt should call for a 'staten generaal-etats generaux' of the Belgian business world together with BRU. Aren't there big Belgian companies that want to invest in a new national carrier? Like AB Inbev for example? Just thinking out loud. Action is needed.
The thing is, we are reacting emotional. Companies which are requested to invest in (AB) are not. They just look at the ROI. And accept for Belgian possible Belgian investors, you also have to convince the Chinese main share holder. But if there is a case to make money, it might work.

Maybe turn an eye to Oneworld as well, the only alliance in which a Belgian national carrier would make sense. Give full support to Air Belgium, transfer all traffic rights subject to bilaterals to AB and in the meanwhile have Oneworld expand their (long haul) operations at BRU...

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Yuqu12
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Yuqu12 »

The CAA should perhaps hurry up with the AOC's of AB and VLM, so they can fill a possible long haul gap at BRU when necessary. The situation at stake here is a possible economic crisis: no SN at BRU will mean less interesting for Star Alliance partners as they cannot connect their passengers, so less airlines. This means less people needed and thus dismissals. If you know that BRU is the second biggest employer of Belgium (direct and indirect), there is a lot at stake here for the Belgian government who likes their jobs, jobs, jobs mantra.

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travellover
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by travellover »

About Africa, BRU and DUS are not the same market, isn't it ?
BRU is mostly a point to point airport, also for Asia and NA, the market is there with the bilateral traffic rights between Belgium and intercontinental markets.
The transfer traffic (+- 4.2 mio pax if I'm correct) is growing mostly thanks SN and *.
Seven "new" A330 are entering the fleet and there are some leasing contracts running until 2021/22.
SN will refurbish it's long haul cabin and get a true C/Y and Y lay out, as EW. Will EW and SN offer a C class on the short and medium haul network ?
SN means thousands of direct and indirect local jobs.
Even FR is targetting the business market.
Not that sure it so easy to "kill" SN if it is the purpose ?
Monday board meeting will give more enlightment. :|
Last edited by travellover on 03 Feb 2018, 17:11, edited 1 time in total.
Cheers

flightlover
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by flightlover »

Ansett wrote: 03 Feb 2018, 12:28 Apparently no, there are no Belgian enterprises or stakeholders who want to invest in a Belgian airline. If this had been the case, the former Belgian SN shareholders would have put money on the table in order to avoid the current scenario. They were only too happy to get rid of it.
Circumstances are quite different than at the time;
- SN is making money iso loosing it hand over fist. (proving the market is there)
-A new airline will have their hands free in terms of fleet and they know now that small jets are not the way to go.
- They have great managers ready to show LH wrong
- Passenger numbers are up all over the world almost
- If long haul is being moved to FRA there will be some flight crew that would be happy to switch for another airline that offers them a Belgian base. (But they should be quick as TUI, VLM and AB are offering this today already)

So all in all it will result in a complete different business case that might be deemed more viable.

Not Real
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Not Real »

Once again Belgians let Lufthansa do what the company wants with their legacy carrier...

I hope when SN officially turns to Eurowings and get its livery and staff, the Belgians will not fly this airline anymore!

After Gustin will all staff become unemployed as well and wet lease with CityJet or BMI stopped to be made by german companies.

And European Union? "There is no problem, isnt?"

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Yuqu12
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Yuqu12 »

flightlover wrote: 03 Feb 2018, 12:47
Ansett wrote: 03 Feb 2018, 12:28 Apparently no, there are no Belgian enterprises or stakeholders who want to invest in a Belgian airline. If this had been the case, the former Belgian SN shareholders would have put money on the table in order to avoid the current scenario. They were only too happy to get rid of it.
Circumstances are quite different than at the time;

- They have great managers ready to show LH wrong
If Gustin is fired, they can use him as a CEO. He built Sn to what it is now

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