Brussels Airlines in 2018

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b.lufthansa
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by b.lufthansa » 05 Jun 2018, 17:14

Flying more passengers than ever, most of the staff and crew working their butt off. Restructuring, cutting costs, race to the bottom, etc.. hardly any profit.

And now a nice negative article by the big boss.

This must be very frustrating for staff and crew.

sn-remember
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by sn-remember » 05 Jun 2018, 17:15

Poiu wrote:
05 Jun 2018, 09:51
You can shoot the messenger, but message is clear though, Eurowings or no wings at all!
The bad news is that DUS is strategically targetted as EW's base. And BRU as a focus city ? while SN temporarily playing a small role to Africa. On the longer run, in case SN gets closed, the African network might be diluted into EW from BRU, LH and LX taking the high end product (maybe in part from BRU also ?), I don't know .. it's contrary to what I always thought possible, i.e. the development of a small to medium (around 20 w/b a/C) effective hub in B ?
However let's be pragmatic and positive, BRU still has some attractiveness on the world market. Who cares the name and the colour of the plane ? Let's make it the most local possible .. No choice for now :-/
Last edited by sn-remember on 05 Jun 2018, 17:47, edited 2 times in total.

Jetter
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Jetter » 05 Jun 2018, 17:21

Boavida wrote:
05 Jun 2018, 17:02
I said it before and I will say it again: what is the point of having another generic, low cost carrier with NO identity in Brussels, besides FR, U2, VY...? Why should I fly Eurowings instead of Ryanair, knowing EW has killed our national carrier? I say full boycot. I will do everything I can to avoid EW.
The point for LH is to make profit, for them a high cost carrier with a Belgian identity that doesn't make a profit is of no use. What will you do: only fly Air Belgium from now on and spend all your holidays in Hong Kong? :lol:

Bralo20
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Bralo20 » 05 Jun 2018, 17:38

Jetter wrote:
05 Jun 2018, 17:21
The point for LH is to make profit, for them a high cost carrier with a Belgian identity that doesn't make a profit is of no use. What will you do: only fly Air Belgium from now on and spend all your holidays in Hong Kong? :lol:
Use BA and travel via LHR, use AF and travel via CDG, use KL and travel via AMS, etc... plenty of choices to avoid flying with EW/LH... Or use one of the LCC's for intra-EU flights. Flying to the US? DL, AC will get you there from BRU. Asia/Australasia? Most places are reachable ex-BRU with a single stop... EY, EK, QR, TG, NH, CX, HU... Again, plenty of choice.

There's virtually no need to use LH group carriers ex-BRU.

jan_olieslagers
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by jan_olieslagers » 05 Jun 2018, 17:39

The year after Renault decided to close their Vilvoorde factory, Renault was the most-sold car in Belgium... Enough said?

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lumumba
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by lumumba » 05 Jun 2018, 18:27

jan_olieslagers wrote:
05 Jun 2018, 17:39
The year after Renault decided to close their Vilvoorde factory, Renault was the most-sold car in Belgium... Enough said?
But Renault is not a national brand....
Hasta la victoria siempre.

Deejay
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Deejay » 05 Jun 2018, 18:32

With smaller planes getting longer and longer ranges, the HUB strategy will no longer be the main business model, but direct flights from point to point, will.

I still do not understand why Belgium (11 Million and EU Capital) cannot have a premium flag carrier
and Austria, and Switzerland, with each 8 Million inhabitants can....

I think the problem is that we belgians are not ambitious and proud enough... a little economic nationalism could help us here. This is the main difference with AUA and LX
In Belgium, politics are never far away, and any "national" symbol is seen as something dated from "la belgique à papa"...
don't you agree ?

of course, the result is that the airline is not making the kind of money an investor would hope for and the rest is history ....

saratoga
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by saratoga » 05 Jun 2018, 18:45

Deejay wrote:
05 Jun 2018, 18:32
With smaller planes getting longer and longer ranges, the HUB strategy will no longer be the main business model, but direct flights from point to point, will.

I still do not understand why Belgium (11 Million and EU Capital) cannot have a premium flag carrier
and Austria, and Switzerland, with each 8 Million inhabitants can....

I think the problem is that we belgians are not ambitious and proud enough... a little economic nationalism could help us here. This is the main difference with AUA and LX
In Belgium, politics are never far away, and any "national" symbol is seen as something dated from "la belgique à papa"...
don't you agree ?

of course, the result is that the airline is not making the kind of money an investor would hope for and the rest is history ....
You are right. We belgians are not proud enough, except when the red devils soccer team are playing! I think it is also a political thing, too many governments having their own interests, that only creates a divide between the belgians. On top of that, none of these governments have something to say positive about aviation, for them it only creates noise and problems. Always whining and moaning between eachother and blaming the other. On top of that, the brussels politics with their noise rules makes it also very aviation unfriendly.

Plus the competition between airports. Some airports can rely on their local politicians (eblg, ebci), while other airports can't (ebos). And like always in Belgium, we are too much foreigner friendly, selling everthing we have to them so not much of our identity stays.

sn-remember
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by sn-remember » 05 Jun 2018, 21:18

Deejay wrote:
05 Jun 2018, 18:32
With smaller planes getting longer and longer ranges, the HUB strategy will no longer be the main business model, but direct flights from point to point, will.
Not sure. While I expect some more "stand-alone" routes to emerge (the A321LR might contribute to that), I also think the present day hubs will continue to grow, Secundary hubs also (VIE, BRU ?) even some new ones might develop because of saturation. DUS, GVA and BER might be among those .. BRU could pretend to catch the big neighbours up provided the right strategy is put in place; Doesn't look to be the case thus far ..
I still do not understand why Belgium (11 Million and EU Capital) cannot have a premium flag carrier
and Austria, and Switzerland, with each 8 Million inhabitants can....
Because they invested intelligently. Banks and management. SN was weak on bank support and management skill. Always has been.
In Belgium, politics are never far away, and any "national" symbol is seen as something dated from "la belgique à papa"...
don't you agree ?
Yup

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lumumba
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by lumumba » 05 Jun 2018, 21:44

sn-remember wrote:
05 Jun 2018, 21:18
Deejay wrote:
05 Jun 2018, 18:32
With smaller planes getting longer and longer ranges, the HUB strategy will no longer be the main business model, but direct flights from point to point, will.
Not sure. While I expect some more "stand-alone" routes to emerge (the A321LR might contribute to that), I also think the present day hubs will continue to grow, Secundary hubs also (VIE, BRU ?) even some new ones might develop because of saturation. DUS, GVA and BER might be among those .. BRU could pretend to catch the big neighbours up provided the right strategy is put in place; Doesn't look to be the case thus far ..
I still do not understand why Belgium (11 Million and EU Capital) cannot have a premium flag carrier
and Austria, and Switzerland, with each 8 Million inhabitants can....
Because they invested intelligently. Banks and management. SN was weak on bank support and management skill. Always has been.
In Belgium, politics are never far away, and any "national" symbol is seen as something dated from "la belgique à papa"...
don't you agree ?
Yup
I'm agree whit you here.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

JustPlanes
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by JustPlanes » 06 Jun 2018, 09:13

Just read the Spohr interview and have to put in my 2 cents, sorry :)

First off he comes of as an asshole... Anyone in Belgium reading this should never spend another dime in his group! Anyone working at SN should probably look for work elsewhere soon!

Spohr is giving SN no tools to expand/grow... He's giving the staff bullshit and no reason to work hard to make the airline profit... and his theory of you make money you grow is the biggest lie/joke.... he's sinking millions and millions into Eurowings and there is absolutely no guarantee the airline will succeed... in fact the way its being put together it has a good chance of failing!

On the other hand if he were a smart guy and invested into LH, LX, OS, SN and made these 4 airlines work well together he could really build a European empire... and if he for one minute thinks that LH is a 5 Star airline then he has something coming... I say fly one way in Business Class on LH and one way on Qatar and you will see what a 5 star airline is.

I'm so disgusted I don't even want to continue however I will end with the best joke...
On the Name of Brussels Airlines he says that decision rests with the CEO Christina Foerster...

Off course the real responsible here is the idiot(s) who agreed to this deal with LH... People who have learned absolutely nothing from the SN-SR deal and the destruction of a great airline for no reason.... and now exactly the same again... Morons!

Deejay
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Deejay » 06 Jun 2018, 10:27

Integration of his european group... should be the main priority, totally right on this one.

I did a small experiment. Let's imagine that I am a diplomat or a business man, and I need to do a triangle BRU-GVA-VIE-BRU ...

tried to book this on the LH and SN websites.

First, no SN flights on the LH website proposed !! but OS and LX are available, so no direct flights BRU-GVA, while SN and LX codeshare on this direct route...

If I try this on SN, for the GVA-VIE leg, one needs to go over BRU, while OS has a direct connection...

stupid.

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CTBke
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by CTBke » 06 Jun 2018, 10:38

while when looking on EW they offer you SN flights for a wide range of destinations, Spohr made it clear SN is in the EW segment and not in the OS/LX/LH part


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sn-remember
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by sn-remember » 06 Jun 2018, 13:59

b.lufthansa wrote:
05 Jun 2018, 17:14
Flying more passengers than ever, most of the staff and crew working their butt off. Restructuring, cutting costs, race to the bottom, etc.. hardly any profit.

And now a nice negative article by the big boss.

This must be very frustrating for staff and crew.
Lufthansa's image is damaged.
At SN, in Belgium and abroad.
Because of the CEO Herr Spohr's irresponsible and scornful message he gave to SN's board and people.
I doubt the workforce at SN is happy.
I doubt the Belgian public is happy.
I doubt the workforce at, say LOT or Alitalia, are looking forward to a LH takeover.
I doubt the international actors in the airline sector will want to partner/collaborate with Lufthansa if given the choice.
It's a disaster to everybody. It's Middle-East practice.

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CTBke
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by CTBke » 06 Jun 2018, 14:12

sn-remember wrote:
06 Jun 2018, 13:59
b.lufthansa wrote:
05 Jun 2018, 17:14
Flying more passengers than ever, most of the staff and crew working their butt off. Restructuring, cutting costs, race to the bottom, etc.. hardly any profit.

And now a nice negative article by the big boss.

This must be very frustrating for staff and crew.
Lufthansa's image is damaged.
At SN, in Belgium and abroad.
Because of the CEO Herr Spohr's irresponsible and scornful message he gave to SN's board and people.
I doubt the workforce at SN is happy.
I doubt the Belgian public is happy.
I doubt the workforce at, say LOT or Alitalia, are looking forward to a LH takeover.
I doubt the international actors in the airline sector will want to partner/collaborate with Lufthansa if given the choice.
It's a disaster to everybody. It's Middle-East practice.
Exactly, I wish him good luck in finding people who want to work for such a 'CEO'
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Passenger
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Passenger » 06 Jun 2018, 14:19

sn-remember wrote:
06 Jun 2018, 13:59
Lufthansa's image is damaged.
At SN, in Belgium and abroad.
Because of the CEO Herr Spohr's irresponsible and scornful message he gave to SN's board and people.
...
If you read what / listen to what Carsten Spohr really has said, there is no damage to Lufthansa's image at all in Belgium and/or abroad. And it even makes sense that Carsten Spohr isn't eager to invest in Brussels Airlines now: "it's company policy not to invest when the long term ROI prospect (return on investment) is too risky".

The only "damage to Lufthansa" is limited to pilots and the trade unions who have organized a two-day strike. And to those who think that the strike was justified. Which it was not.

Jetter
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Jetter » 06 Jun 2018, 15:03

sn-remember wrote:
06 Jun 2018, 13:59
Lufthansa's image is damaged.
At SN, in Belgium and abroad.
Because of the CEO Herr Spohr's irresponsible and scornful message he gave to SN's board and people.
Do you really think people in Belgium or even abroad give anything about Spohr's message to SN's people, let alone SN's board? That's delusional. All people that care have a special interest in aviation, which is only a tiny fraction of the general public.
It's a disaster to everybody.
The disaster that made this scenario inevitable happened a long time ago: the demise of Sabena due to incompetent management and selfish staff. In the European aviation sector there isn't a way to recover from that with a truly national large flag-carrier. You can't really blame that on LH.

nordikcam
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by nordikcam » 06 Jun 2018, 22:54

Boavida wrote:
05 Jun 2018, 17:02
Spohr clearly has 0 respect for Belgium.

He says Brussels Airlines is 'unknown' in Scandinavia or Madrid. That could be better indeed but isn't the most important thing to be well known in your own home market!??

I said it before and I will say it again: what is the point of having another generic, low cost carrier with NO identity in Brussels, besides FR, U2, VY...? Why should I fly Eurowings instead of Ryanair, knowing EW has killed our national carrier? I say full boycot. I will do everything I can to avoid EW.
CS is like a panzer. And yes I'll refuse to fly LH or EW...never. German smile = zero ! I do not want to transfer to MUC or FRA. I and I asked to transfer the flighs to come ...to KL or maybe AF...( hoping the strikes will end ). Just back from HAV where I' arrived the day of the cuban crash...terrible ! Good AF service !

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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by sean1982 » 07 Jun 2018, 13:37

Passenger wrote:
06 Jun 2018, 14:19
And to those who think that the strike was justified. Which it was not.
Says who?

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KriVa
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by KriVa » 07 Jun 2018, 14:18

Let's not go there again. That argument has run its course multiple times.
Thomas

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