Brussels Airlines in 2018

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Jetter
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Jetter »

b720 wrote: 12 May 2018, 08:29Social security contributions and taxes highest in the world! It is very expensive to hire people in Belgium. The difference between what the employer pays and what the employee ultimately receives is huge!! Maybe they should open SN Ireland and base their cabin and cockpit crew over there! Thy will save millions and millions ..
I can definitely agree with this, but shouldn't the blame go towards the government (and by extension to the people of Belgium that elect them) instead of SN?
737MAX wrote: 12 May 2018, 09:08See. You don’t know. But still you keep on saying the same thing.

Answering you is a waste of time. Being incapable of gathering information BEFORE judging/posting is another form of...
You could also just answer my question, instead of attacking the person who's asked it. Some parts of the strike I definitely don't agree with, but I didn't need additional information to come to that conclusion.

I've gathered enough information to judge that a first strike for 2 full days is excessive. They could have started with a strike of a few hours, and reevaluate later before deciding on further action. Also I have enough information to judge that some (people supporting the) pilots are trying to mislead the general public and people on this forum i.e. by claiming a loss in Q1 is standard, while almost all competitors did make a profit. Some demands by the pilots seem reasonable and some do not, i.e. demanding that morning flights be changed to evening flights when morning flights make more sense economically isn't a reasonable demand.

As to the salary question I don't know and it's very hard to know as it isn't public information and also very hard to compare with base-salary, extra's, working hours, taxes payed (many taxes already levied before arriving at the gross-salary which should also be taken into the equation). Thus I asked that question.

Homo Aeroportus
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Homo Aeroportus »

A picture is worth a thousand words...

New SN Livery.png
New SN Livery.png (157.62 KiB) Viewed 3645 times


:(

H.A.

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lumumba
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by lumumba »

I was wondering also...?!?
Hasta la victoria siempre.

nordikcam
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by nordikcam »

Good evening sadness...If this pic is the future, if that's what I'll have to use at BRU, I'll close my MM account and continue Flying blue and restart my IAG avios.

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by sn26567 »

Homo Aeroportus wrote: 12 May 2018, 20:23 A picture is worth a thousand words...


New SN Livery.png



:(

H.A.
It was intentional in this period of uncertainty. The aircraft is a Belgium-registered Brussels Airlines A330 in the Eurowings livery. A reminder for everybody to join forces to keep a strong Belgian airline.
André
ex Sabena #26567

Passenger
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Passenger »

jan_olieslagers wrote: 12 May 2018, 15:25 But the pilots have no contract with the passengers... management does.
So what? Does one need a signed contract before one is entitled to get respect? The only relevance of your remark, is the judicial consequence: passengers cannot sue the pilots for the damage because the pilots act as employee. And believe me, there are a lot of stranded passengers with damage that even the five star airlines won't refund.

jan_olieslagers wrote: 12 May 2018, 15:25 I cannot help finding that, while I understand your fury at the pilots, you show a curious tolerance for the behaviour of the managers.
Well noted. But then, it isn't management who screws the passengers, is it? It is the pilots who show their middle finger to the passengers.

jan_olieslagers wrote: 12 May 2018, 15:25 If it is true that SN pilots are paid much below market average, while not performing less than average, AND that they accepted a temporary reduction until 2018, it is only normal they are now pushing for an improvement.
You know what I would do if I would work for such a bad employer? I would quit. I would go to a competitor like KLM or Ryanair, who apparently pay sooooo much more and where pressure (werkdruk) is sooooo much lower.

JustPlanes
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by JustPlanes »

I wouldn't be surprised if Lufthansa purposely didn't give in to what pilots were asking for just so they would strike and it would give then more excuses to do what they want with SN...
Just all very sad! Hopefully Air Belgium gets their wings to start Hong Kong in 2 weeks... wouldn't hurt to have an airline connecting long range destinations with Belgium... just too bad its not Brussels where it should be!

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by sn26567 »

Gentlemen, please, could we remain courteous and polite. Unions are not onions: they defend the rights of their members, perhaps not always in the most suitable way, but that does not justify insults. Pilots have been put under pressure and there are certainly good reasons for their anger. And management in Brussels is probably also under pressure from Germany and does not have a free hand.

Thus let us respect all opinions and discuss with serenity.

Most important: no personal attacks! You may fight against ideas, not against other members.

Thanks to all for keeping this forum a nice discussion place.

Please continue the off-topic discussion in this topic: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=63655
André
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Poiu
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Poiu »

JustPlanes wrote: 13 May 2018, 08:03 I wouldn't be surprised if Lufthansa purposely didn't give in to what pilots were asking for just so they would strike and it would give then more excuses to do what they want with SN...
Just all very sad! Hopefully Air Belgium gets their wings to start Hong Kong in 2 weeks... wouldn't hurt to have an airline connecting long range destinations with Belgium... just too bad its not Brussels where it should be!
Could be, management claims this will cost 10+ mio plus commercial damage. With 5 mio some temporary measures could have been implemented and a strike avoided, whilst talks continued for let’s say one year.

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galaxy
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by galaxy »

wrote: A reminder for everybody to join forces to keep a strong Belgian airline.
Will Air Belgium become the new airline to replace Brussels Airlines? :roll:

Poiu
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Poiu »

galaxy wrote: 13 May 2018, 12:00
wrote: A reminder for everybody to join forces to keep a strong Belgian airline.
Will Air Belgium become the new airline to replace Brussels Airlines? :roll:
Belgium is too small for a strong Belgian airline.
A Belgian branch of LH is not necessarily bad, from a passenger point of view even a Belgian branch of EW is not bad. More and cheap flights, what else do you want? Unfortunately the employees will be sacrificed in the name of cost saving and if that is acceptable is another question.

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Darjeeling
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Darjeeling »

--> Forum member "Passenger":

Dear,
The first right of the passenger is the right to choose. The right to choose the airline they want to fly with. If they feel unhappy with SN, so be it, there's plenty of other choices to/from BRU. It's a free market !
If you are frustrated or jealous, the same applies for you. It's not a personal attack, but the passenger is everything but a king. Certainly when it wants to fly to Malaga at a lower cost than from Brussels Midi/Zuid to Oostende. It wants free bags, free snacks, free smile, legroom... the pax gets what it deserves as we speak now. A good strike will remind them who flies an aircraft.

Second thing, give me the name of an airline coming from a non-dictatorship or third world country that hasn't conducted industrial actions the last 20 years ? I can only name Southwest.

Third thing, something I've learned with the times, a passenger has a short memory. The more you have him undergone, the more he asks for... AF always records its highest loadfactors the year following a long period of strike. "Never again with xyz airlines" is not something they (the pax) really stick to... money and cheap fares and miles is another thing.

Your Onion ring ;-)

Poiu
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Poiu »

Darjeeling wrote: 13 May 2018, 12:24 give me the name of an airline coming from a non-dictatorship or third world country that hasn't conducted industrial actions the last 20 years ? I can only name Southwest.
Ah, but Southwest puts its people in front of making more money.

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luchtzak
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by luchtzak »

Hmmm BRT, euhhh VRTNWS: Redcap Johan already left BIAC euhmmm Brussels Airport in 2001 ;)
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32378456_10215231416793810_254659533081673728_n.jpg

Passenger
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Passenger »

Etienne Schouppe, former minister for Mobility, in De Zevende Dag (VRT tv):

https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2018/05/13 ... neelslede/
.
...Op zijn zachts gezegd erg ongelukkig, op een slecht moment, en eigenlijk doen ze een stommiteit want men zal een parallelisme trekken met 2001, Sabena.

To remain mild: very unhappy, at a bad time, and actually stupid because some people will draw a parallelism with 2001, Sabena.

If one reads their recent letter, it’s only about their problems. And at the beginning, they only had financial demands like referring to the previous salary cuts. Only after some press leaks and reactions by the media, they made a U-turn and came up with other problems like job pressure.

That may be true, I don’t know, but when it’s true, it’s also valid for the cabin crew and for ground staff. But the unions only defended the pilots: no other category joined the strike. That suggests the drive is corporatism from the pilots. But they play with fire. They won’t loose their jobs, but they put the jobs from some of the 85% other staff at risk.

Most carriers make a loss on their short haul operations. Eurowings does, Brussels Airlines does. When Gustin presented his program to reform, there was probably not enough loss cuts for short haul OPS in that plan. By replacing Gustin by an own CEO, Lufthansa hopes to reduce the losses for short haul at both Brussels Airlines and at Eurowings, by merging as much as possible.

Lufthansa won’t change the name: they have bought Brussels Airlines mainly for the Africa network, an heritage from Sabena. In Africa, you need a link to Brussels and/or to Belgium.

When Sabena went bankrupt, 8.000 got lost. Today, Brussels Airlines has 4.000 jobs. You don’t fool around with those jobs when you know that the future of the airline is at stake. The pilots don’t risk their jobs, but other people may do.

When Lufthansa wouldn’t have bought shares from / and invested in Brussels Airlines back in 2008, Brussels Airlines would have gone bankrupt. What the pilots are doing now, is creating a negative perception about Brussels Airlines within Lufthansa’s management...

sean1982
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by sean1982 »

Politicians should keep their mouth wide shut. A big part of the current situation at SN is by their doing anyway. They had a huge role to play in the bankruptcy of SABENA and again in the sale of SN to Lufhansa. Incompetency and lack of subject knowledge made Belgium one of the most aviation unfriendly countries to survive in as an airline, and there is no manager who can change that without a radical change of the draconian laws and stupid little language games!

nordikcam
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by nordikcam »

In the same time SN to BRU's market share continues to grow and reached 40.86% in April 2018...fingers crossed !

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by sn26567 »

nordikcam wrote: 13 May 2018, 15:58 In the same time SN to BRU's market share continues to grow and reached 40.86% in April 2018...fingers crossed !
This is likely to change for the worse in May with 2 days of strikes (>6% fewer flights during the month!).
André
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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by sn26567 »

I just had a look at the BRU departures page for tomorrow. As expected, almost all SN flights are cancelled, except those carried out by CityJet (SSJ100), bmi Regional (E145) and ASL Airlines France (B737-700).

More surprisingly, these few SN flights are also operating (flights departing until 17:15): SN3765 to Palma de Mallorca (A320), SN3631 to Paris CDG (A320), SN3771 to Alicante (A320), SN3169 to Naples (A319), SN3325 to Hurghada (A320), SN3735 to Malaga (A320), SN3781 to Tenerife (A320). I guess that most of the passengers of these flights are flying with Thomas Cook tickets.

Are these flights operated with SN aircraft and pilots, or with aircraft leased from other companies?

On the arrivals page, the intercontinental flights arriving in the morning are maintained, but those coming from European airports where they spent the night seem to be cancelled e.g. Hamburg, Prague, Berlin Tegel, Milan Linate, Manchester, Marseille, Budapest, Madrid, Venice, Bilbao, Edinburgh, Göteborg, Rome Fiumicino, Lyon, Toulouse, Oslo, Warsaw, ...): hence these aircraft will not clog Brussels Airport.

On the other hand, other airlines are increasing their capacity on Brussels flights. For example, LOT is coming with a 737-800 instead of the usual Embraer.
André
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nordikcam
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by nordikcam »

sn26567 wrote: 13 May 2018, 17:10 I just had a look at the BRU departures page for tomorrow. As expected, almost all SN flights are cancelled, except those carried out by CityJet (SSSJ100), bmi Regional (E145) and ASL Airlines France (B737-700).

More surprisingly, these few SN flights are also operating (flights departing until 17:15): SN3771 to Alicante (A320), SN3169 to Naples (A319), SN3325 to Hurghada (A320), SN3735 to Malaga (A320), SN3781 to Tenerife (A320). I guess that most of the passengers of these flights are flying with Thomas Cook tickets.

Are these flights operated with SN aircraft and pilots, or with aircraft leased from other companies?

On the other hand, other airlines are increasing their capacity on Brussels flights. For example, LOT is coming with a 737-800 instead of the usual Embraer.
Regardless of ASL flight to CDG another flight SN is scheduled, the usual 3631 @ 6:50 AM

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