Brussels Airlines in 2018

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lumumba
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by lumumba » 14 Apr 2018, 20:11

Boavida wrote:
14 Apr 2018, 20:05
This is bad.

So Brussels Airlines will totally disappear in Europe. Only for African operations they *might* keep the brand: this doesn't make sense at all. Why keeping a brand for only a few routes and aircraft? This is absurd.

RIP Brussels Airlines. Killed by the Germans. Yeah, I know they 'saved' the airline years ago, but now they're coldly killing it off.

I will boycot EW as much as I can in my professional and personal life. Why would I fly an airline that killed 'our' flag carrier? I would even pay more to fly Ryanair or Easyjet (the other bland, meaningless, soulles brands without an identity) just so I don't have to fly bloody Eurowings, and I hope many Belgians with me.
If it happens I do the same....
Hasta la victoria siempre.

Passenger
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Passenger » 14 Apr 2018, 21:05

Boavida wrote:
14 Apr 2018, 20:05
I will boycot EW as much as I can in my professional and personal life. Why would I fly an airline that killed 'our' flag carrier? I would even pay more to fly Ryanair or Easyjet (the other bland, meaningless, soulles brands without an identity) just so I don't have to fly bloody Eurowings, and I hope many Belgians with me.
lumumba wrote:
14 Apr 2018, 20:11
If it happens I do the same....
:lol:

oscartango
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by oscartango » 15 Apr 2018, 05:18

Hi, new to the forum! :D
Actually I don’t think the Brussels Airlines brand will strongly change in the next 2-3 years. First of all due the well known name in Africa: (Sn) Brussels Airlines and due to the strong brand in its homemarket.

However I do think changing Brussels Airlines in a more “Eurowings-group-name” would be useful (maybe Belgianwings), but I don’t think the Brussels Airlines entity will be completly renamed to Eurowings, simply due to the fact nobody really feels “European”, and nobody would prefer flying Eurowings above Ryanair/Easyjet/Vueling. But Belgianwings can have a certain preference for Belgian customers and a clear link with the Eurowings group.

I guess the Eurowings brand is only interesting to show separation from Luftansa in the German market and maybe a few holiday destinations in Switzerland/Austria.

brusselsairlinesfan
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by brusselsairlinesfan » 15 Apr 2018, 10:07

oscartango wrote:
15 Apr 2018, 05:18
Hi, new to the forum! :D
Actually I don’t think the Brussels Airlines brand will strongly change in the next 2-3 years. First of all due the well known name in Africa: (Sn) Brussels Airlines and due to the strong brand in its homemarket.

However I do think changing Brussels Airlines in a more “Eurowings-group-name” would be useful (maybe Belgianwings), but I don’t think the Brussels Airlines entity will be completly renamed to Eurowings, simply due to the fact nobody really feels “European”, and nobody would prefer flying Eurowings above Ryanair/Easyjet/Vueling. But Belgianwings can have a certain preference for Belgian customers and a clear link with the Eurowings group.

I guess the Eurowings brand is only interesting to show separation from Luftansa in the German market and maybe a few holiday destinations in Switzerland/Austria.
Hi oscartango... and welcome to the forum !

I do agree with you regarding a possible rebranding of brussels airlines into belgianwings or eurobelgianwings... However, Stefan Kreuzpainter’s interview clearly stages that the brussels airlines brand will diseappear to be replaces by Eurowings on medium haul flights!!!

This is clearly a negation of the belgian identity and an insult towards belgian aviation pioneers, workers, lovers and finally customers.

I am french guy from Paris but I do fly with SN (call it Sabena, SN brussels, Brussels Airlines) because of this unique belgian touch and identity that I really love (btw, I love Belgium, belgians... maybe because I have some family roots from Mons, Brussels and Kortrijk). Belgian people can be proud of it, defend it, protect it! Don’t let that happen, fight for the belgian identity / flag and keep it flying all over Europe!

If that happens, I won’t fly Eurowings for sure but will also avoid all LH Group airlines at all costs !

... and I am sure about a very negative market reaction !
Last edited by brusselsairlinesfan on 15 Apr 2018, 10:48, edited 1 time in total.

brusselsairlinesfan
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by brusselsairlinesfan » 15 Apr 2018, 10:48

And btw, congrats to SN for March figures... and much respect to M. Bernard Gustin who left at the end of the month (he wrote some nice pages of SN, together with its dedicated staff... a nice personality!).

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by sn26567 » 15 Apr 2018, 11:39

oscartango wrote:
15 Apr 2018, 05:18
Hi, new to the forum! :D
Welcome to Aviation24.be, oscartango. And thanks for your first positive post.
André
ex Sabena #26567

oscartango
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by oscartango » 15 Apr 2018, 13:50

brusselsairlinesfan wrote:
15 Apr 2018, 10:07
I do agree with you regarding a possible rebranding of brussels airlines into belgianwings or eurobelgianwings... However, Stefan Kreuzpainter’s interview clearly stages that the brussels airlines brand will diseappear to be replaces by Eurowings on medium haul flights!!!
He's actually saying: "I would say there must be a different commercial approach between short-haul and long-haul [networks]". So it looks more like a personal opinion/lobbying work from him.
What are actually the benefits (for Lufthansa and EW) of changing the Brussels Airlines medium haul brand to Eurowings (and not Belgianwings), cause it's only a name?

Poiu
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Poiu » 15 Apr 2018, 15:55

oscartango wrote:
15 Apr 2018, 13:50
brusselsairlinesfan wrote:
15 Apr 2018, 10:07
I do agree with you regarding a possible rebranding of brussels airlines into belgianwings or eurobelgianwings... However, Stefan Kreuzpainter’s interview clearly stages that the brussels airlines brand will diseappear to be replaces by Eurowings on medium haul flights!!!
He's actually saying: "I would say there must be a different commercial approach between short-haul and long-haul [networks]". So it looks more like a personal opinion/lobbying work from him.
What are actually the benefits (for Lufthansa and EW) of changing the Brussels Airlines medium haul brand to Eurowings (and not Belgianwings), cause it's only a name?
This is not about a name change, but about cost saving!
Beside a handful of Brussels Airlines fans on this forum, nobody cares about the name itself. Unions and staff are concerned about jobs and salaries, whilst passengers on short haul mainly care about low fares.
If the Germans would integrate SN into LH mainline, with mainline working conditions, none of the unions or employees would complain.
Eurowings has amongst the worst T&Cs for airline staff you can find in Europe, that is the reason of the integration. Axe a lot of the office staff and employ future crew on lower terms, if the unions accept this, there will be no need for a name change.

crew1990
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by crew1990 » 15 Apr 2018, 17:58

Poiu wrote:
15 Apr 2018, 15:55
If the Germans would integrate SN into LH mainline, with mainline working conditions, none of the unions or employees would complain.
Of course there would be complain, we have some good working condition at Brussels Airlines, not perfect, it can always be better of coure but I think most of us are very happy with our condition. The proof is that strike by SN employee is quite rare. While in Lufti you almost have a strike once a year minimum. I really don't believe than their working condition a better.

Just a few example that I already saw, in Tel Aviv, we have a full breakfast before departing, KLM and Air France too, while Swiss and Lufthansa crew nothing.

In Europe sector if we fly a mission (Consecutive days with layover at outstation), in SN we can't have more than 3 days in a row while the crew from Lufthansa can fly a full week without coming back home.

TLspotting
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by TLspotting » 15 Apr 2018, 18:11

Hello,
The OO-TCV seems to be now engined with IAE with CFM (FR24),the extension changed from 214 to 231.
Can someone from Beeline confirm ?
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/oo-tcv
I'm Thibault Lapers, spotter in Belgium for now 3 years, but not yet across the world and a huuuuuge aviation geek ! Join me on Facebook & Twitter @TLspotting

DeltaWiskey
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by DeltaWiskey » 15 Apr 2018, 18:34

It’s a flight radar error. It’s still equipped with CFM’s.

Poiu
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Poiu » 15 Apr 2018, 18:57

crew1990 wrote:
15 Apr 2018, 17:58

Of course there would be complain, we have some good working condition at Brussels Airlines, not perfect, it can always be better of coure but I think most of us are very happy with our condition. The proof is that strike by SN employee is quite rare. While in Lufti you almost have a strike once a year minimum. I really don't believe than their working condition a better.

Just a few example that I already saw, in Tel Aviv, we have a full breakfast before departing, KLM and Air France too, while Swiss and Lufthansa crew nothing.

In Europe sector if we fly a mission (Consecutive days with layover at outstation), in SN we can't have more than 3 days in a row while the crew from Lufthansa can fly a full week without coming back home.
Lufty mainline salaries are about double of what you earn, and they work less days a month.
Still complain about a breakfast and a couple of nights away from home, which attract extra salary btw?
If you give a bar of gold to some people they will complain it’s too heavy...

crew1990
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by crew1990 » 15 Apr 2018, 19:04

Poiu wrote:
15 Apr 2018, 18:57
crew1990 wrote:
15 Apr 2018, 17:58

Of course there would be complain, we have some good working condition at Brussels Airlines, not perfect, it can always be better of coure but I think most of us are very happy with our condition. The proof is that strike by SN employee is quite rare. While in Lufti you almost have a strike once a year minimum. I really don't believe than their working condition a better.

Just a few example that I already saw, in Tel Aviv, we have a full breakfast before departing, KLM and Air France too, while Swiss and Lufthansa crew nothing.

In Europe sector if we fly a mission (Consecutive days with layover at outstation), in SN we can't have more than 3 days in a row while the crew from Lufthansa can fly a full week without coming back home.
Lufty mainline salaries are about double of what you earn, and they work less days a month.
Still complain about a breakfast and a couple of nights away from home, which attract extra salary btw?
If you give a bar of gold to some people they will complain it’s too heavy...
When you fly full time , you usually reach between 2500 and 3000 netto at brussels airlines (thank to the per diem), I do not work for Lufthansa and I don't know their salary, but if they earn the double as you say (meaning they earn between 5000 and 6000€ a month) then indeed I would prefer their work condition, but I'm don't think this is the case. I have some ex colleagues from Germania working now for Lufthansa, and it's not all pink their.

Poiu
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Poiu » 15 Apr 2018, 19:11

crew1990 wrote:
15 Apr 2018, 19:04

When you fly full time , you always reach between 2500 and 3000 at brussels airlines (thank to the per diem), I do not work for Lufthansa and I don't know their salary, but if they earn the double as you say (meaning they earn between 5000 and 6000€ a month) then indeed I would prefer their work condition, but I'm don't think this is the case. I have some ex colleagues from Germania working now for Lufthansa, and it's not all pink their.
A friend of mine is a long haul skipper, his gross salary is just under 20.000€/month.

crew1990
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by crew1990 » 15 Apr 2018, 19:18

Well, then great for him... what can I say

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RoMax
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by RoMax » 15 Apr 2018, 19:22

Let's make the difference between cockpit and cabin crew maybe, because I don't think both of you are talking about the same thing here...

DeltaWiskey
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by DeltaWiskey » 15 Apr 2018, 19:28

Poiu wrote:
15 Apr 2018, 19:11
crew1990 wrote:
15 Apr 2018, 19:04

When you fly full time , you always reach between 2500 and 3000 at brussels airlines (thank to the per diem), I do not work for Lufthansa and I don't know their salary, but if they earn the double as you say (meaning they earn between 5000 and 6000€ a month) then indeed I would prefer their work condition, but I'm don't think this is the case. I have some ex colleagues from Germania working now for Lufthansa, and it's not all pink their.
A friend of mine is a long haul skipper, his gross salary is just under 20.000€/month.
The difference is probably close to 50% then, far from double.

Poiu
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Poiu » 15 Apr 2018, 19:30

DeltaWiskey wrote:
15 Apr 2018, 19:28
Poiu wrote:
15 Apr 2018, 19:11
crew1990 wrote:
15 Apr 2018, 19:04

When you fly full time , you always reach between 2500 and 3000 at brussels airlines (thank to the per diem), I do not work for Lufthansa and I don't know their salary, but if they earn the double as you say (meaning they earn between 5000 and 6000€ a month) then indeed I would prefer their work condition, but I'm don't think this is the case. I have some ex colleagues from Germania working now for Lufthansa, and it's not all pink their.
A friend of mine is a long haul skipper, his gross salary is just under 20.000€/month.
The difference is probably close to 50% then, far from double.
Ok point taken, but still people would be stupid to complain no, if you are paid 50% more one day to another?

sean1982
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by sean1982 » 15 Apr 2018, 19:33

DeltaWiskey wrote:
15 Apr 2018, 19:28
Poiu wrote:
15 Apr 2018, 19:11
crew1990 wrote:
15 Apr 2018, 19:04

When you fly full time , you always reach between 2500 and 3000 at brussels airlines (thank to the per diem), I do not work for Lufthansa and I don't know their salary, but if they earn the double as you say (meaning they earn between 5000 and 6000€ a month) then indeed I would prefer their work condition, but I'm don't think this is the case. I have some ex colleagues from Germania working now for Lufthansa, and it's not all pink their.
A friend of mine is a long haul skipper, his gross salary is just under 20.000€/month.
The difference is probably close to 50% then, far from double.
Well the difference between 3000€ monthly and 4500€ monthly for a cabin crew member is quite big wouldn’t you say? I think I can live with a “no breakfast” stay then :/

DeltaWiskey
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by DeltaWiskey » 15 Apr 2018, 20:03

sean1982 wrote:
15 Apr 2018, 19:33
Well the difference between 3000€ monthly and 4500€ monthly for a cabin crew member is quite big wouldn’t you say? I think I can live with a “no breakfast” stay then :/
I was talking long haul captain salary's, not cabin crew members. You also can't compare gross to net salaries, since it depends to much on one's personal situation. 50% more gross doesn't mean 50% more net, I am sure you know that as well. Per diems are per definition without taxes, and they are also not 50% higher between LH and SN.

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