Brussels Airlines in 2018

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Ansett
Posts: 420
Joined: 13 Apr 2016, 19:12

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Ansett » 04 Feb 2018, 15:09

If SN workers decide to strike after the decisions which will be announced by LH tomorrow, Monday, In Frankfurt, I hope they will give an official notice of strike to protect themselves against legal action from LH. No emotional wildcat strikes, please. ;)

Passenger
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Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Passenger » 04 Feb 2018, 15:27

pilot_gent wrote:
04 Feb 2018, 13:37
Passenger wrote:
04 Feb 2018, 13:08
Sure they do. Problem with the shareholders? F*ck the passengers.
In every business in the entire world, when employees go on strike, the clients are always fucked. So what's your answer, make strikes illegal everywhere?
I didn't said that strikes are illegal, nor that this strike is going to be illegal. I only said it seems to be the only solution Belgian trade unions have: to go on strike and to use passengers as hostage.
pilot_gent wrote:
04 Feb 2018, 13:37
Passenger wrote:
04 Feb 2018, 13:08
Sure they do. Problem with the shareholders? F*ck the passengers.
What would you do if the back-office is moved (> 1000 people), uncertainty about where you work, etc. Knowing that the current situation is a profitable one.
"If".If indeed: only rumours so far. And seriouly: "move the back-office"? Lufthansa cannot move Thousand people from BRU to FRA. This is about local staff, many of them with a home/house in Belgium. With a salary level that doens't allow a second home. So if Lufthansa decides to move the back office, they can just move a few team heads, and dismiss all others. But that legal pay out will cost them the benefit from five years.

telspace2005
Posts: 37
Joined: 11 Oct 2008, 12:47

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by telspace2005 » 04 Feb 2018, 15:42

@ Inquirer:

" It's a nice dream, but just how realistic is it to set up a global network carrier right in between Europe's 4 biggest hubs?

Question: Why the Nederlands has succeded making AMS one of Europe's 4 biggest hub ? (as you said). Belgium and Nederlands are very closed, almost the same population, same weather, same PIB, etc..
Why AMS is a major hub and not BRU ? How come ?

(...and on the same panel, why as soon as you have crossed the borders of Belgium, you find clean and well maintained streets, highways, clean trains, ...on time ! well preserved landscapes and so on)

Passenger
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Passenger » 04 Feb 2018, 16:01

Ansett wrote:
04 Feb 2018, 15:09
If SN workers decide to strike after the decisions which will be announced by LH tomorrow, Monday, In Frankfurt, I hope they will give an official notice of strike to protect themselves against legal action from LH. No emotional wildcat strikes, please.
When employees go on a wildcat strike, their are acting illegally for just a very short period of time: untill the unions advise management/owners that they recognize the strike. Usually, that's done with a few hours. Only when the trade unions don't support a wildcat strike, the strikers are at risk.

On top, a wildcat strike is the worst strike that can happen for passengers. It's seen as an "extreme circumstance" - thus avoidable - thus limiting the responsability from the airline towards passengers and cargo-clients. Regarding to EU-261/2004, that means: no right to compensation, no right for indemnity of direct and indirect costs.

But then again - is that the only worry here: "legal protection against LH"? Show respect for the passengers please. Don't screw their business meetings. Don't screw their holidays (cheap or expensive).

sean1982
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by sean1982 » 04 Feb 2018, 16:05

Passenger wrote:
04 Feb 2018, 15:27
pilot_gent wrote:
04 Feb 2018, 13:37

What would you do if the back-office is moved (> 1000 people), uncertainty about where you work, etc. Knowing that the current situation is a profitable one.
"If".If indeed: only rumours so far. And seriouly: "move the back-office"? Lufthansa cannot move Thousand people from BRU to FRA. This is about local staff, many of them with a home/house in Belgium. With a salary level that doens't allow a second home. So if Lufthansa decides to move the back office, they can just move a few team heads, and dismiss all others. But that legal pay out will cost them the benefit from five years.
It’s not about moving them ... it’s getting rid of them! Why need a flight planning department when you have one? Why need a training department when you have one? Why need a marketing department when you have one? And so on .....

Sai
Posts: 198
Joined: 31 Mar 2012, 22:35

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Sai » 04 Feb 2018, 16:43

Poiu wrote:
04 Feb 2018, 12:35
LH is not stupid, if SN would be really profitable they wouldn’t change the strategy.
Sad but unfortunately true.
Most years of their existence they did lose (a lot of) money despite the financial aid of LH...
Whenever there was a profit it was rather marginal in comparison to the losses. source
In the end any company must make profit...

saratoga
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Joined: 04 Apr 2006, 00:00

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by saratoga » 04 Feb 2018, 16:51

Not to mention that the poor belgian cadets probably have to do now these stupid DLR tests if they wanna join.

Ansett
Posts: 420
Joined: 13 Apr 2016, 19:12

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Ansett » 04 Feb 2018, 17:10

Passenger wrote:
04 Feb 2018, 16:01
But then again - is that the only worry here: "legal protection against LH"? Show respect for the passengers please. Don't screw their business meetings. Don't screw their holidays (cheap or expensive).
With a formal strike notice, you show respect for passengers. Business travellers can reschedule their meetings or fly a different airline. For holiday travellers it might be more difficult, but striking is a fundamental right ! Perhaps you would like to do away with fundamental rights , starting with the right to strike, and then what's next ?
And what about employers showing respect towards their employees ? Why are in you eyes the employees always the culprits and never the employers ?

Unlike what you think, workers do not like to strike. They would prefer to go to work, do their work with decent salaries and working conditions and respect from their employers and maintain social peace.

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travellover
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by travellover » 04 Feb 2018, 18:21

travellover wrote:
04 Feb 2018, 10:47

If the rumour becomes true, will there be voices at the political, juridical, economic level that are ready to contest a questionable transfer of the african network in Germany[/b] ?
Something like this. It remembers the weeks after sabena went bankrupt.

https://www.tijd.be/ondernemen/luchtvaa ... source=SIM

https://www.lecho.be/economie-politique ... es/9978970
Cheers

Passenger
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Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Passenger » 04 Feb 2018, 18:28

Ansett wrote:
04 Feb 2018, 17:10
...but striking is a fundamental right!
It's not a "fundamental right" (it's not in the Human Rights Declaration). Only to be member of a trade union is a fundamental right.
Ansett wrote:
04 Feb 2018, 17:10
With a formal strike notice, you show respect for passengers. Business travellers can reschedule their meetings or fly a different airline. For holiday travellers it might be more difficult...
No. With a formal strike notice in aviation, you don't show respect for passengers. You only show respect for passengers by not going on strike - or to limit your "strike" to a symbolic action, like a 15 minute delay.

Not all business travellers can rebook onto another airline. When your ticket has been issued and when it's not a full-Y or a C, you loose your ticket money unless the airline allows a change. Which they will only do at the very last minute, when they 95% sure the strike will be massive. And when the airline does so, Hundreds of other travellers face the same problem at the same moment. Hence: no rebooking possible.

Passenger
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Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Passenger » 04 Feb 2018, 18:42

travellover wrote:
04 Feb 2018, 18:21
travellover wrote:
04 Feb 2018, 10:47
If the rumour becomes true, will there be voices at the political, juridical, economic level that are ready to contest a questionable transfer of the african network in Germany[/b] ?
Something like this. It remembers the weeks after sabena went bankrupt.

https://www.tijd.be/ondernemen/luchtvaa ... es/9978987
https://www.lecho.be/economie-politique ... es/9978970
Superb move. I guess there will an informal meeting of some board members before lunch tomorrow - before Gustin and Deraeymaeker join them.

Bralo20
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Joined: 12 Aug 2008, 13:48

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Bralo20 » 04 Feb 2018, 19:27

For those without subscription (or over their 5 article limit), the same on VRT News and aviation24:

In English:

https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/lufth ... nes-brand/

In Dutch:

https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2018/02/04 ... g-voor--e/

In French:

https://www.rtbf.be/info/economie/detai ... id=9830675

Passenger
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Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Passenger » 04 Feb 2018, 20:39

Decision from the shareholders SN Airholding on 18th December 2017,
registered at the Brussels Trade Court on 23th January 2018,
published in Belgium's State Gazette on 02nd February 2018:

NL:
http://www.ejustice.just.fgov.be/tsv_pd ... 024191.pdf
FR:
http://www.ejustice.just.fgov.be/tsv_pd ... 024192.pdf

Bralo20
Posts: 1432
Joined: 12 Aug 2008, 13:48

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Bralo20 » 04 Feb 2018, 20:50

Passenger wrote:
04 Feb 2018, 20:39
Decision from the shareholders SN Airholding on 18th December 2017,
registered at the Brussels Trade Court on 23th January 2018,
published in Belgium's State Gazette on 02nd February 2018:

NL:
http://www.ejustice.just.fgov.be/tsv_pd ... 024191.pdf
FR:
http://www.ejustice.just.fgov.be/tsv_pd ... 024192.pdf
According to this the board of SN Airholding is now 5 Belgians against 4 Germans?

So theoretically this means if all Belgians vote against firing Gustin & De Raeymaecker that Spohr can't fire them?

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RoMax
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Joined: 20 Jun 2009, 16:32

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by RoMax » 04 Feb 2018, 20:54

Bralo20 wrote:
04 Feb 2018, 20:50
According to this the board of SN Airholding is now 5 Belgians against 4 Germans?

So theoretically this means if all Belgians vote against firing Gustin & De Raeymaecker that Spohr can't fire them?
Dieter Vranckx is a VP of Lufthansa.

Bralo20
Posts: 1432
Joined: 12 Aug 2008, 13:48

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Bralo20 » 04 Feb 2018, 20:59

RoMax wrote:
04 Feb 2018, 20:54
Dieter Vranckx is a VP of Lufthansa.
Oh, didn't knew that. But he's Belgian :mrgreen: But indeed unlikely he'll go against his employer :)

Passenger
Posts: 6357
Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Passenger » 04 Feb 2018, 20:59

RoMax wrote:
04 Feb 2018, 20:54
Bralo20 wrote:
04 Feb 2018, 20:50
According to this the board of SN Airholding is now 5 Belgians against 4 Germans?
So theoretically this means if all Belgians vote against firing Gustin & De Raeymaecker that Spohr can't fire them?
Dieter Vranckx is a VP of Lufthansa.
And Vranckx has a double nationality: Belgium and Switzerland.

brabel
Posts: 161
Joined: 17 Jun 2015, 10:51

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by brabel » 04 Feb 2018, 22:10

Davignon says in an Article on vrt he is not worried about tomorrow
“I have reasons to be unhappy, but not to be worried”


Suppose we’ll see tomorrow...

Bralo20
Posts: 1432
Joined: 12 Aug 2008, 13:48

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Bralo20 » 04 Feb 2018, 22:17

brabel wrote:
04 Feb 2018, 22:10
Davignon says in an Article on vrt he is not worried about tomorrow
“I have reasons to be unhappy, but not to be worried”


Suppose we’ll see tomorrow...
I guess due all commotion of the past days Lufthansa will just fire the CEO and CFO and that will be it. After the storm has passed they'll probably go further with it. But for tomorrow? I would guess nothing significant anymore.

Boavida
Posts: 429
Joined: 14 Sep 2010, 23:54

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Boavida » 04 Feb 2018, 22:28

When you think of it: wouldn't it be incredibly stupid of LH to kill Brussels Airlines and replace it by a bland meaningless LC brand like Eurowings, resulting in a BAD IMAGE in its new 'home market'?

I mean come on. What a way to start a new brand in a new country! By erasing its home carrier! Isn't a new brand supposed to create a POSITIVE image among its potential new customers? How is EW gonna do that if the company is perceived by the public as the KILLER of a beloved national brand?

It doesn't make any sense.
Last edited by Boavida on 04 Feb 2018, 22:30, edited 1 time in total.

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