TUI fly Belgium in 2018

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Ozzie1969
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2018

Post by Ozzie1969 » 16 Jul 2018, 09:45

DIBO wrote:
16 Jul 2018, 00:46
Ozzie1969 wrote:
15 Jul 2018, 16:34
I'm reading far too many of these horror stories about Tui fly Belgium to ever consider risking my wife and kids on one of their flights.
That is a totally out of proportion reaction. Out of Belgium, what alternatives you have? In recent days, Ryanair had an severe decompression incident with a few pax bleeding out of their ears, a Brussels Airlines flight diverted to Toulouse for smell/smoke in the cockpit, Air Belgium had several AOG's in recent weeks, VLM the oldest fleet in Belgium, maybe try a Cityjet operated flight on one of their brand new Sukhoi's :(
For every severely delayed or cancelled TUIFly flight, there were at least a 100 ones that went well.
My wife, me & my kids made several dozen TUIFly flights from/to ANR the past few years, with zero incidents & 100% satisfaction. I convinced many relatives & acquaintances to fly out of ANR with TUIFly, not heard one complaint. I took 4 Ryanair flights many years ago, and will never fly Ryanair again. Been using Brussels Airlines ever since, until TUIFly came along in my 'backyard'.
And yes, in recent weeks you could read here a lot about things going occasionally wrong, but a lot of that was related to the pioneering role TUIFly is playing at OST and even more at ANR, with more challenging operational aspects (limited staff, limited tech support, airport constraints,...)

If TUI is not your airline of choice, that's fine. But let us keep everything in perspective and not blow things out of proportion ;)
It may have escaped your attention, but this topic is about Tui fly Belgium, not about all those other airlines. Excuse me for staying on topic.

Poiu
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2018

Post by Poiu » 16 Jul 2018, 10:09

Ozzie1969 wrote:
15 Jul 2018, 16:34
I'm reading far too many of these horror stories about Tui fly Belgium to ever consider risking my wife and kids on one of their flights. Thanks, but no thanks.
Indeed shock horror, people had to spend the 7 hours between the rubbish they threw on the ground themselves!
I am quite confident to fly TUI, as soon as there is a problem with an aircraft they delay or cancel the flight, no risks taken!
Inconvenient for sure, but risky and shock horror??

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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2018

Post by KriVa » 16 Jul 2018, 10:20

The topic is indeed about TUI Belgium, but keeping a bit of perspective in reference to other airlines doesn’t hurt.
Keep in mind, nobody is going to be bothered to report about all the flights that went off without a hitch.
When a flight is cancelled/delayed/rerouted/diverted, that’s when info about it is posted on a forum like this.
This means that any topic about any airline will skew its “reputation” negatively if you only take into account what was reported.
Take a look along AVHerald, and make a search for any airline. No matter at who you look, you’ll get a long list of incidents, accidents, reports, anomalies etc. That’s just the nature of a forum/reporting site.
In order to get a decent perspective, you need to have a look at the amount of flights with problems vs. The total amount of flights.
Having problems is part of running an airline. The difference is that problems tend to have a large impact on a schedule in the summertime, when demand is close to or exceeding capacity offered, whereas in wintertime it’s easier to work around the problem with extra flights/aircraft swaps etc. since demand isn’t as high.
In wintertime it’s also relatively easy to get a sub charter on short notice. There’s pretty much no spare capacity available anywhere in Europe during the summertime.
This only compounds the problems. A single delay caused by a bad slot or unforeseen maintenance due to a technical problem can have a ripple effect on the schedule for multiple days, or even weeks in the worst case, before you’re back up and running normally.
Problems also tend to come in multiples. This, mixed with a rather small overall fleet, and very small subfleets when looking at B787/E190, tends to make a bad situation even worse.
Thomas

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sn26567
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2018

Post by sn26567 » 16 Jul 2018, 12:25

Passenger wrote:
16 Jul 2018, 09:28
Ozzie1969 wrote:
15 Jul 2018, 16:34
I'm reading far too many of these horror stories about Tui fly Belgium to ever consider risking my wife and kids on one of their flights. Thanks, but no thanks.
TUI offered them 400 € indemnity per person. I wouldn' call that a horror story.
400 € is little, compared with what they had to endure: 19 hours delay, sleeping between cockroaches and cigarette butts in a filthy airport, absence of information, etc. And I am not sure that the 400 € will miraculously fall on their bank account: they probably will have to claim it.
André
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convair
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2018

Post by convair » 16 Jul 2018, 13:02

KriVa wrote:
16 Jul 2018, 10:20
The topic is indeed about TUI Belgium, but keeping a bit of perspective in reference to other airlines doesn’t hurt.
Keep in mind, nobody is going to be bothered to report about all the flights that went off without a hitch.
When a flight is cancelled/delayed/rerouted/diverted, that’s when info about it is posted on a forum like this.
This means that any topic about any airline will skew its “reputation” negatively if you only take into account what was reported.
Take a look along AVHerald, and make a search for any airline. No matter at who you look, you’ll get a long list of incidents, accidents, reports, anomalies etc. That’s just the nature of a forum/reporting site.
In order to get a decent perspective, you need to have a look at the amount of flights with problems vs. The total amount of flights.
Having problems is part of running an airline. The difference is that problems tend to have a large impact on a schedule in the summertime, when demand is close to or exceeding capacity offered, whereas in wintertime it’s easier to work around the problem with extra flights/aircraft swaps etc. since demand isn’t as high.
In wintertime it’s also relatively easy to get a sub charter on short notice. There’s pretty much no spare capacity available anywhere in Europe during the summertime.
This only compounds the problems. A single delay caused by a bad slot or unforeseen maintenance due to a technical problem can have a ripple effect on the schedule for multiple days, or even weeks in the worst case, before you’re back up and running normally.
Problems also tend to come in multiples. This, mixed with a rather small overall fleet, and very small subfleets when looking at B787/E190, tends to make a bad situation even worse.
Excellent and well written post, Kriva! You're a wise person.

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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2018

Post by Passenger » 16 Jul 2018, 13:43

sn26567 wrote:
16 Jul 2018, 12:25
Passenger wrote:
16 Jul 2018, 09:28
Ozzie1969 wrote:
15 Jul 2018, 16:34
I'm reading far too many of these horror stories about Tui fly Belgium to ever consider risking my wife and kids on one of their flights. Thanks, but no thanks.
TUI offered them 400 € indemnity per person. I wouldn' call that a horror story.
400 € is little, compared with what they had to endure: 19 hours delay, sleeping between cockroaches and cigarette butts in a filthy airport, absence of information, etc. And I am not sure that the 400 € will miraculously fall on their bank account: they probably will have to claim it.
When there is doubt, I tend to give priority to the version that passengers give because both 261/2004 and the travel legislation are consumer protection rights. But at least, they must deliver a basic proof: some facts (like FR24), some photos or multiple witness reports. However, in this case, the article in HLN.be was based upon the report from one single passenger, claiming she had to sleep in between garbich, cockroaches, cigarette butts and and other dirty stuff. Why would the airport offer such dirty place? Why did the passenger accept that? I would take the foldable bed upstairs, to a more decent place.

Regarding the 400 € indemnity: many other airlines would have said "a delay caused by a technical issue on the incoming flight is force majeure, hence no indemnity to be paid". But yet, TUI offered the indemnity.

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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2018

Post by sn26567 » 16 Jul 2018, 14:56

Passenger wrote:
16 Jul 2018, 13:43
But yet, TUI offered the indemnity.
Yes, but here TUI could define a culprit elsewhere than in its own fleet to pay the compensation: the incoming flight was operated by AirExplore and TUI can make them responsible.

And, by the way, this AirExplore aircraft returned empty to Brussels and operated other TUI flights immediately afterwards. It looks like the problem wasn't so bad after all: a clogged toilet?
André
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Sai
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2018

Post by Sai » 20 Jul 2018, 12:01

It seems TUI is rather generous nowadays with indemnities and compensations…Maybe PR strategy?

According to consumer magazine Test-Aankoop (Dutch) TUI pays €60/day/pax for delayed luggage due to the luggage belt failures at BRU Airport this month which was actually force majeur. SN and other airlines refuse to pay because they claim it is force majeur.

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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2018

Post by sn26567 » 20 Jul 2018, 15:14

Sai wrote:
20 Jul 2018, 12:01
It seems TUI is rather generous nowadays with indemnities and compensations…Maybe PR strategy?

According to consumer magazine Test-Aankoop (Dutch) TUI pays €60/day/pax for delayed luggage due to the luggage belt failures at BRU Airport this month which was actually force majeure. SN and other airlines refuse to pay because they claim it is force majeure.
It is easy for TUI to be generous when it can probably reclaim the money from somebody else, in this case, the Brussels Airport Company who was responsible for the failure.
André
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2018

Post by sn26567 » 20 Jul 2018, 15:15

TUI Group (Germany) is considering swapping some of its later B737 MAX 8 deliveries to the MAX 10, as the fleet is consolidated down to two main types — B737 MAXs and B787s. Under the fleet revamp, all eight B737-700s leave the fleet in the next year, while the B757s and B767s will be phased out in the early 2020s. Some of the B737-800s will go after that.
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2018

Post by AAI » 20 Jul 2018, 19:57

And what about the Embraers?
Will they be replaced in 2020?

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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2018

Post by ostair » 21 Jul 2018, 02:27

AAI wrote:
20 Jul 2018, 19:57
And what about the Embraers?
Will they be replaced in 2020?
The end of the TUI operation at ANR?
Surely they will keep them.

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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2018

Post by sn26567 » 21 Jul 2018, 18:20

ostair wrote:
21 Jul 2018, 02:27
AAI wrote:
20 Jul 2018, 19:57
And what about the Embraers?
Will they be replaced in 2020?
The end of the TUI operation at ANR?
Surely they will keep them.
Also my impression. There might be a Group policy to rationalise the fleet around the 737MAX and the 787, but with some regional adaptations, e.g. to be able to fly to ANR.
André
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2018

Post by sn26567 » 24 Jul 2018, 15:31

sn26567 wrote:
20 Jul 2018, 15:15
TUI Group (Germany) is considering swapping some of its later B737 MAX 8 deliveries to the MAX 10, as the fleet is consolidated down to two main types — B737 MAXs and B787s. Under the fleet revamp, all eight B737-700s leave the fleet in the next year, while the B757s and B767s will be phased out in the early 2020s. Some of the B737-800s will go after that.
I contacted TUI fly Belgium about the consequences of this decision for Belgium. They confirmed that:
  • the 767 will be phased out (after the Summer season?)
  • TUI fly Benelux will get Boeing 737 MAX 10 aircraft as well
  • No dates have been set yet for those changes, which will occur gradually
  • No information about the Embraers
André
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DIBO
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2018

Post by DIBO » 25 Jul 2018, 00:30

sn26567 wrote:
20 Jul 2018, 15:15
all eight B737-700s leave the fleet in the next year
sn26567 wrote:
24 Jul 2018, 15:31
No information about the Embraers
if even a smaller variant (-700) of the mainstream type (737) will have to leave asap and future variants are scaled upwards with MAX8 & 10, I doubt that the Germans will understand the need for a totally non-standard type from a different manufacturer, with a higher seat mile cost, which is only essential for an airport only 50km from the country's main hub. And which might also be useful on some smaller niche destinations. But targeting niche markets seems not to match with their future fleet strategy...

pilot_gent
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2018

Post by pilot_gent » 25 Jul 2018, 09:01

The Embraers were brought into place for some reasons:
- destinations where a small 737 was still too big (e.g. Lourdes)
- Flying direct routes in stead of triangle flight (Dubrovnik, Brindisi, Naples, Athens etc). These used to be flown in triangle rotations (Athens-Thessaloniki / Dubrovnik-Brindisi etc) but was one of the biggest complaints of passengers.

Maybe they can convince the TUI group by stating that flying a B737-8 with 100 passengers is not a cost-efficient operation. 8-)

Komenascox
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Air Belgium in 2018

Post by Komenascox » 25 Jul 2018, 09:54

Hello everyone.
Air Info/LAГ©rien says in an article about JAF, the 2nd 787 will arrive but they will let OO-JNL in Belgium, and wont move. Strange

Question, when does will arrive the OO-MAX ?

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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2018

Post by sn26567 » 25 Jul 2018, 10:47

pilot_gent wrote:
25 Jul 2018, 09:01
Maybe they can convince the TUI group by stating that flying a B737-8 with 100 passengers is not a cost-efficient operation. 8-)
To which the Group might reply: fly a 737-800 once a week instead of an E190 twice a week ;)
André
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by sn26567 » 25 Jul 2018, 10:57

Komenascox wrote:
25 Jul 2018, 09:54
Hello everyone.
Air Info/LAГ©rien says in an article about JAF, the 2nd 787 will arrive but they will let OO-JNL in Belgium, and wont move. Strange

Question, when does will arrive the OO-MAX ?
Welcome to Aviation24.be, Komenascox.

Your post has been moved from the Air Belgium thread to the TUI Belgium thread.

The 2nd 787 has arrived a few months ago, and OO-MAX as well. OO-JNL will be phased out at the latest in 2020.
André
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2018

Post by sn26567 » 25 Jul 2018, 11:49

sn26567 wrote:
24 Jul 2018, 15:31
I contacted TUI fly Belgium about the consequences of this decision for Belgium. They confirmed that:
  • the 767 will be phased out (after the Summer season?)
  • TUI fly Benelux will get Boeing 737 MAX 10 aircraft as well
  • No dates have been set yet for those changes, which will occur gradually
  • No information about the Embraers
And today I got the confirmation that the E190 sub-fleet is there to stay, in order to cater to the specific needs of Belgium, and in particular ANR.
André
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