TUI fly Belgium in 2018

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KriVa
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2018

Post by KriVa » 05 Jul 2018, 18:39

Allow me to make this counterpoint: what would your alternative be?
Thomas

sean1982
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2018

Post by sean1982 » 05 Jul 2018, 19:34

ironspan wrote:
05 Jul 2018, 16:48

Completely disagree. If you would have a competent flight ops organisation, this would not happen.
Right, as you seem to be an expert in flight ops ... What would you do then?
Passenger wrote:
05 Jul 2018, 15:26
People bying a ticket only or a TUI package are told "to/from Antwerp". And not "...maybe Antwerp, maybe Brussels because Antwerp has a lot of restrictions, and when it's going to be Brussels don't expect any refund although tickets and packages out of Antwerp are more expensive then out of Brussels".
As goes for every single airport in the world. The smaller and more challenging the airport, the bigger the chance that something will go wrong. Rather than simply cancelling the service TUI at least does an effort to find a solution.

Passenger
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2018

Post by Passenger » 05 Jul 2018, 21:34

It would help if some would read what others say. Like ironspan wrote - and I quote partially: "...the frequent delays (at ANR) and or diversions through BRU are getting noticed..." That is absolutely correct: what is happening last weeks, is too abnormal to be acceptable. If TUI sells "Antwerp", they must deliver that. After all, both aviation legislation and travel legislation have the principle of "resultaatsverbintenis", and not "inspanningsverbintenis" (= it's not enough that you try your best: there must be a result).

DIBO
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2018

Post by DIBO » 05 Jul 2018, 22:25

OO-JVA was the current OST E190. By taking it out of its OST-PMI-ANR (& back) schedule, it was able to operate today's schedules (FLR & TLN) and the coming days out of ANR. Moving the PMI pax to BRU allows for spare capacity/planes to be found to continue the OST schedule. Finding spare capacity/planes for ANR operations is virtually impossible.
With all of ANR's operational limitations, E190 operations haven't been that bad, only the AOG's of recent weeks makes one wonder if it's just bad luck or are the E190's starting to live up their 'hangar queen' reputation...

sean1982
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2018

Post by sean1982 » 05 Jul 2018, 22:49

Passenger wrote:
05 Jul 2018, 21:34
It would help if some would read what others say. Like ironspan wrote - and I quote partially: "...the frequent delays (at ANR) and or diversions through BRU are getting noticed..." That is absolutely correct: what is happening last weeks, is too abnormal to be acceptable. If TUI sells "Antwerp", they must deliver that. After all, both aviation legislation and travel legislation have the principle of "resultaatsverbintenis", and not "inspanningsverbintenis" (= it's not enough that you try your best: there must be a result).
If you look at figures for funchal or gibraltar for example you’ll find that ANR ops are actually more then acceptable.

Shengenzone
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2018

Post by Shengenzone » 06 Jul 2018, 11:02

E190 AOG in ANR again today.
Cargodoor damaged in spain.
Split flight to be operated from BRU.

ironspan
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2018

Post by ironspan » 06 Jul 2018, 12:46

Again 200 dissatisfied customers...

I hope that in Belgium we aim for better ops rates than Gibraltar. For example LCY should be a benchmark (shorter runway, higher minima, night closure).

And what I propose:
1. Immediately move one of the E190 to ANR from BRU or OST and replace it there by with a wet-lse aircraft (they have several flying for them). Why did the OO-JVA had to return to OST this morning? (their runway can take any plane)
2. Give short-field training to TuiFly B7378/max crew in case they need to land-t/o exceptionally at ANR (with average 110 pax,this should be no problem for destinations as BCN, TLN or PMI).

Reliability of the E190 is quite good, probably just unlucky (damaged cargodoor can happen to any aircraft).

And thanks to ‘passenger’, at least he understands the value of a ‘Customer First’ mindset.

DIBO
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2018

Post by DIBO » 06 Jul 2018, 15:31

Option 1 is the only viable one. And indeed, surpringly, they moved OO-JVA back to OST. So probably no affordable/available spare plane for the OST ops... Not even an A340? :D
And then is busing pax to&from BRU faster out of ANR than OST... At least the BCN combo flights out of ANR & OST are flown by OO-JVA more or less on time.
For option 2, it's impossible to keep enough 73* crews current on ANR ops, without scheduling 73's on a regular basis out of ANR. For the -700s it might performance & economics wise maybe possible out of ANR, for the -800/MAX it would not make much sense with 50% LF, 4 cabin crew, etc.

Let's hope the cargodoor damage is quickly repairable!!

AAI
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2018

Post by AAI » 06 Jul 2018, 16:03

after all these problems the last weeks, they should better ask VizionAir to find a plane in stand-by, f.e. a F100!

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KriVa
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2018

Post by KriVa » 06 Jul 2018, 17:25

If I understand it correctly, you want to have an E190 on hot standby “just in case”? I don’t think that’s going to work out financially over the long term.
There’s simply not enough aircraft in the fleet to have one always available. If every other aircraft capable of performing a flight at ANR is performing another duty, whether it be an actual flight or scheduled maintenance or in between two flights, there’s basically no way to get an aircraft there in a sensible amount of time.
On top of that, these kind of problems have a nasty tendency to come in waves. One day your fleet(-mix) is performing fine, the next day you have 4 aircraft AOG. Good luck finding spare capacity, with the necessary qualifications for ANR, during this time of year. Don’t forget, your potential needs to impact the customers less than it would if they were bussed to BRU where an aircraft is waiting, ready at the gate.
Swapping in a sub charter isn’t as simple as making a few calls and having a full crew turn up ready where you need them 10 minutes later.
Honestly, bussing the passengers to BRU every once in a while is probably the best thing they can do to reduce impact both for the customers and the schedule. Is it fun? No. But it’s the best out of all viable options available.
The reason they have those wet-lease aircraft flying is because they need the capacity. In the summer months, there is very little slack in the schedule they have running. Those planes are not sitting idle at the tarmac for a “just in case” scenario. They’re there to make money.
Thomas

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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2018

Post by pilot_gent » 07 Jul 2018, 11:03

ironspan wrote:
06 Jul 2018, 12:46
2. Give short-field training to TuiFly B7378/max crew in case they need to land-t/o exceptionally at ANR (with average 110 pax,this should be no problem for destinations as BCN, TLN or PMI).
Since I was quite interrested I did some calculations, 112 pax and fuel for ALC.

B737-800: Take-off only possible on runway 11 provided no tailwind and dry. Runway 29 not possible. Landing possible provided runway is dry. Runway wet = diversion.

B737-700: Same results.

Training a lot of crew on short field landing only makes sense if the crews do it regularly to have the habit of landing on a short runway.

AAI
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2018

Post by AAI » 08 Jul 2018, 20:20

Again the AGP ANR is diverting to BRU. This is not serious anymore!

DIBO
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2018

Post by DIBO » 09 Jul 2018, 00:28

OO-JEM seems to be AOG in Faro and they needed a plane for the Tirana nightflight. OO-TEA was the one with the longest 'nightrest', so best suited for an extra nightly return flight. If all goes well it will be back in ANR almost on time for the normal schedule.
Really bad luck with the E190 operations, these days...

ironspan
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2018

Post by ironspan » 09 Jul 2018, 11:34

Bigger airlines do have a spare plane, and I am sure TuiFly has some solutions also, otherwise how can they organize additional charters to the WC in Russia. I am flying quite some (job-related) miles each year with Star Alliance and OneWorld, short-haul and long-haul, and whenever they have a technical issue, they find a solution (which is in 90% of the cases another aircraft).
What is even more disturbing, is what happened yesterday. OO-TEA was just ‘picked’ on the way from AGP to ANR, diverting to BRU to replace the OO-JEM for a flight to Tirana. Why did they not bring the BRU pax by bus to ANR? How do you explain to the pax on their way to ANR that they have to land in BRU (no technical reason, no fog, no nightban, no sick pax,...). Fortunately OO-TEA came back to ANR this morning and left for Split with 1hr delay...
The unreliability of the ANR TuiFly operations is spreading amongst the public, recently there was a couple which ended up both for departure and arrival in BRU! I wonder if they got compensated for the loss of valuable holiday time. Just waiting to see when the Gazet van (tegen) Antwerpen picks this story up and makes again an anti-promotion article against the airport...

DIBO
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2018

Post by DIBO » 09 Jul 2018, 13:40

For TUIFly's ANR schedule it seems that all worked as planned, OO-TEA, after a busy night, completing the first ANR return flight to Split with only about half an hour delay. Still busy afternoon for OO-TEA with Florence & Toulon, but so far so good for the ANR pax.
And yes the extra leg by bus yesterday for the ANR pax was far from ideal, but I would expect the extra delay to be limited to an hour or 2 max. Bringing the Tirana pax to ANR is far more complex, luggage was probably already checked in, catering prepared for BRU, crew planned for BRU (are all E190 crews checked out for ANR?), given the distance, there are most certainly weight restrictions out of ANR to Tirana, doubtful whether refueling was still available at ANR, etc.

The major concern is the E190's operational availability. It isn't a big money maker in the first place and if all these operational problems start to impact revenu, TUIFly E190's future and especially ANR operations could come under scrutiny at corporate level. TUIFly has given the biggest boost to ANR operations in the airport's almost 100 year existence, so let's be supportive of TUIFly and it's E190 operations!! I am 100% and completing soon my 12th (my wife's 18th) flight on ANR E190 without any delays and 200% satisfaction of TUIFly. :D

And let's hope for the best for OO-JEM and the Faro pax...

ironspan
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2018

Post by ironspan » 09 Jul 2018, 14:25

To: DIBO
I fully agree with your request to support TuiFly ANR operations and I appreciate your positive attitude.
I am just wondering if all other E190 operators have the same issues, the aircraft looks quite successful and many prime carriers use it (KLM would never buy if it would be crap).
It is also true that they gave an enormous boost to ANR, and I understood from sources close to Corporate level that they are very satisfied with the return they make in ANR. So I do not expect that they will easily walk away from that income, unless of course they standardise on 737MAX.

DIBO
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2018

Post by DIBO » 14 Jul 2018, 23:05

Passengers spending the night at Crete's Airport after their return flight to Brussels was cancelled:
Dutch only (for the moment) https://www.hln.be/nieuws/buitenland/bi ... ~a6a8d44d/

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Ozzie1969
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2018

Post by Ozzie1969 » 15 Jul 2018, 16:34

I'm reading far too many of these horror stories about Tui fly Belgium to ever consider risking my wife and kids on one of their flights. Thanks, but no thanks.

DIBO
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2018

Post by DIBO » 16 Jul 2018, 00:46

Ozzie1969 wrote:
15 Jul 2018, 16:34
I'm reading far too many of these horror stories about Tui fly Belgium to ever consider risking my wife and kids on one of their flights.
That is a totally out of proportion reaction. Out of Belgium, what alternatives you have? In recent days, Ryanair had an severe decompression incident with a few pax bleeding out of their ears, a Brussels Airlines flight diverted to Toulouse for smell/smoke in the cockpit, Air Belgium had several AOG's in recent weeks, VLM the oldest fleet in Belgium, maybe try a Cityjet operated flight on one of their brand new Sukhoi's :(
For every severely delayed or cancelled TUIFly flight, there were at least a 100 ones that went well.
My wife, me & my kids made several dozen TUIFly flights from/to ANR the past few years, with zero incidents & 100% satisfaction. I convinced many relatives & acquaintances to fly out of ANR with TUIFly, not heard one complaint. I took 4 Ryanair flights many years ago, and will never fly Ryanair again. Been using Brussels Airlines ever since, until TUIFly came along in my 'backyard'.
And yes, in recent weeks you could read here a lot about things going occasionally wrong, but a lot of that was related to the pioneering role TUIFly is playing at OST and even more at ANR, with more challenging operational aspects (limited staff, limited tech support, airport constraints,...)

If TUI is not your airline of choice, that's fine. But let us keep everything in perspective and not blow things out of proportion ;)

Passenger
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2018

Post by Passenger » 16 Jul 2018, 09:28

Ozzie1969 wrote:
15 Jul 2018, 16:34
I'm reading far too many of these horror stories about Tui fly Belgium to ever consider risking my wife and kids on one of their flights. Thanks, but no thanks.
TUI offered them 400 € indemnity per person. I wouldn' call that a horror story.

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