Go-around on Air Berlin's final long-haul flight #AB7001

Join this forum to discuss the latest news that happened in the world of commercial aviation.

Moderator: Latest news team

mad_fab
Posts: 163
Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 00:00

Go-around on Air Berlin's final long-haul flight #AB7001

Post by mad_fab » 16 Oct 2017, 21:40

That's a hell of a Go Around....





Passenger
Posts: 6233
Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Air Berlin files for insolvency as Etihad pulls funding plug

Post by Passenger » 19 Oct 2017, 00:03

quixoticguide wrote:
16 Oct 2017, 09:13
The last Air Berlin long haul flight #AB7001 made a go around (probably intentional) and landed 08:02 local time.
mad_fab wrote:
16 Oct 2017, 21:40
That's a hell of a Go Around....

The pilots are suspended and the German CAA is investigating.
Source: Reuters:
https://www.reuters.com/article/air-ber ... NKBN1CN223

User avatar
Yuqu12
Posts: 437
Joined: 04 Mar 2016, 09:41

Re: Air Berlin files for insolvency as Etihad pulls funding plug

Post by Yuqu12 » 19 Oct 2017, 09:01

That suspension is so stupid. Why would you suspend pilots if 1) there are no more longhaul flights and 2) if AB stops flying next week?

sean1982
Posts: 3164
Joined: 18 Mar 2003, 00:00
Contact:

Re: Air Berlin files for insolvency as Etihad pulls funding plug

Post by sean1982 » 19 Oct 2017, 09:06

Yuqu12 wrote:
19 Oct 2017, 09:01
That suspension is so stupid. Why would you suspend pilots if 1) there are no more longhaul flights and 2) if AB stops flying next week?
They are not suspended from flying for AB. They are suspended ... full stop. Equally ridiculous though, They didnt do anything that the airplane wasn’t build to do, and as ATC was filming from the tower the manoeuvre was probably cleared by them as Well!

User avatar
luchtzak
Posts: 11280
Joined: 18 Sep 2002, 00:00
Location: Hofstade, Zemst - Belgium
Contact:

Re: Air Berlin files for insolvency as Etihad pulls funding plug

Post by luchtzak » 19 Oct 2017, 09:27

sean1982 wrote:
19 Oct 2017, 09:06
Yuqu12 wrote:
19 Oct 2017, 09:01
That suspension is so stupid. Why would you suspend pilots if 1) there are no more longhaul flights and 2) if AB stops flying next week?
They are not suspended from flying for AB. They are suspended ... full stop. Equally ridiculous though, They didnt do anything that the airplane wasn’t build to do, and as ATC was filming from the tower the manoeuvre was probably cleared by them as Well!
German press has a different story: some of the pax felt really uncomfortable during the procedure.

User avatar
quixoticguide
Posts: 1654
Joined: 23 Mar 2011, 18:41
Location: Pyongyang, DPRK
Contact:

Re: Air Berlin files for insolvency as Etihad pulls funding plug

Post by quixoticguide » 19 Oct 2017, 09:53

This reminds me on the Cargolux 747-8 Delivery Flight Wing Wave in 2014.
Visit my flights on: http://www.quixoticguide.com

sean1982
Posts: 3164
Joined: 18 Mar 2003, 00:00
Contact:

Re: Air Berlin files for insolvency as Etihad pulls funding plug

Post by sean1982 » 19 Oct 2017, 13:28

luchtzak wrote:
19 Oct 2017, 09:27
sean1982 wrote:
19 Oct 2017, 09:06
Yuqu12 wrote:
19 Oct 2017, 09:01
That suspension is so stupid. Why would you suspend pilots if 1) there are no more longhaul flights and 2) if AB stops flying next week?
They are not suspended from flying for AB. They are suspended ... full stop. Equally ridiculous though, They didnt do anything that the airplane wasn’t build to do, and as ATC was filming from the tower the manoeuvre was probably cleared by them as Well!
German press has a different story: some of the pax felt really uncomfortable during the procedure.
And how pax feel is the new law on what pilots are allowed to do flying/technically wise??

Passenger
Posts: 6233
Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Air Berlin files for insolvency as Etihad pulls funding plug

Post by Passenger » 19 Oct 2017, 18:25

sean1982 wrote:
19 Oct 2017, 13:28
luchtzak wrote:
19 Oct 2017, 09:27
German press has a different story: some of the pax felt really uncomfortable during the procedure.
And how pax feel is the new law on what pilots are allowed to do flying/technically wise??
The show go-around was not only stupid because of passengers' comfort, but also for passengers' safety. A pilot should abstain from doing show go-arounds with passengers onboard, how often it may have been trained on simulators. There are enough experienced pilots who cannot tell us anymore what went wrong during their go-around.

sean1982
Posts: 3164
Joined: 18 Mar 2003, 00:00
Contact:

Re: Air Berlin files for insolvency as Etihad pulls funding plug

Post by sean1982 » 19 Oct 2017, 21:34

Passenger wrote:
19 Oct 2017, 18:25
sean1982 wrote:
19 Oct 2017, 13:28
luchtzak wrote:
19 Oct 2017, 09:27
German press has a different story: some of the pax felt really uncomfortable during the procedure.
And how pax feel is the new law on what pilots are allowed to do flying/technically wise??
The show go-around was not only stupid because of passengers' comfort, but also for passengers' safety. A pilot should abstain from doing show go-arounds with passengers onboard, how often it may have been trained on simulators. There are enough experienced pilots who cannot tell us anymore what went wrong during their go-around.
Are you so technically knowledgeable now that you can see from a video that a go around is dangerous? There are PUBLISHED go arounds which call for much steeper banks after initiation due to terrain than what was done here in DUS, and again, a go-around is not an abnormal procedure 🙄

Passenger
Posts: 6233
Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Air Berlin files for insolvency as Etihad pulls funding plug

Post by Passenger » 19 Oct 2017, 21:42

sean1982 wrote:
19 Oct 2017, 21:34
Are you so technically knowledgeable now that you can see from a video that a go around is dangerous? There are PUBLISHED go arounds which call for much steeper banks after initiation due to terrain than what was done here in DUS, and again, a go-around is not an abnormal procedure
You do not perform a show flight with passengers onboard. A bormal flight is: you take off, you fly, you land. And only if there is a safety issue, you go around.


User avatar
KriVa
Posts: 1340
Joined: 31 Mar 2010, 20:15
Contact:

Re: Air Berlin files for insolvency as Etihad pulls funding plug

Post by KriVa » 19 Oct 2017, 23:43

A go-around is not part of a show flight. It’s a standard manoeuvre every pilot in the world knows, or should know, and is capable of performing without much hassle. Extra workload, sure, but no hassle.
This amended missed approach is even described in the standard phraseology used by ICAO. (“In case of missed approach, early left/right turn to join left/right downwind.”)
There is NOTHING dangerous about the manoeuvre performed by the AB crew. In fact, if they were too high, whether intentionally or not, then continuing the approach would have been the more dangerous option of the two, by far.
A prime example of a more “extreme” standard missed approach? Our very own BRU. Check the missed approach procedure for some of the runways, and you’ll see that those standard manoeuvres would be a lot impressive from the passengers side than this was.
People should really stop being so uptight about everything, especially subjects they don’t know anything about. (This last part is not directed towards anyone specifically, it’s a generalisation.)
Thomas

Passenger
Posts: 6233
Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Air Berlin files for insolvency as Etihad pulls funding plug

Post by Passenger » 20 Oct 2017, 01:54

It was not a missed approach. It wasn't even a go around. It was a planned show performance, a fly-by, with passengers onboard.

sean1982
Posts: 3164
Joined: 18 Mar 2003, 00:00
Contact:

Re: Air Berlin files for insolvency as Etihad pulls funding plug

Post by sean1982 » 20 Oct 2017, 12:10

Passenger wrote:
20 Oct 2017, 01:54
It was not a missed approach. It wasn't even a go around. It was a planned show performance, a fly-by, with passengers onboard.
2 aviation professionals say it is ... you say it isn’t... nuff said :D

User avatar
luchtzak
Posts: 11280
Joined: 18 Sep 2002, 00:00
Location: Hofstade, Zemst - Belgium
Contact:

Re: Air Berlin files for insolvency as Etihad pulls funding plug

Post by luchtzak » 20 Oct 2017, 12:13

Please stop arguing about the go-around!

AirOpinion
Posts: 119
Joined: 11 Feb 2013, 18:38

Re: Air Berlin files for insolvency as Etihad pulls funding plug

Post by AirOpinion » 20 Oct 2017, 12:15

I still think that you should never force passengers into an uncomfortable situation if it's not required. Some passengers might have liked this... but do not forget that there are also passengers in the back that just fly because it's necessary to get from A to B. Some of them not feeling relaxed at all during the landing phase and maybe even scared of flying.

sean1982
Posts: 3164
Joined: 18 Mar 2003, 00:00
Contact:

Re: Air Berlin files for insolvency as Etihad pulls funding plug

Post by sean1982 » 20 Oct 2017, 12:26

luchtzak wrote:
20 Oct 2017, 12:13
Please stop arguing about the go-around!
Actually, no I won’t, for the sake of this forum. When an inherently safe and normal manoeuvre is pushed into a corner of being “dangerous” and “careless” than, as an aviation professional, need to react. This scaremongering done by passenger is along the same lines as what tabloids do when “reporting” non events by their self declared aviation specialists with headlines as “mid air collision narrowly avoided” (tcas event) ... “jet plunged down from the skies” (moderate turbulence) .. etc ...

This is not a true representation of the facts and the only point is clickbait and sales figures.

convair
Posts: 1751
Joined: 18 Nov 2011, 00:02

Re: Air Berlin files for insolvency as Etihad pulls funding plug

Post by convair » 20 Oct 2017, 12:35

luchtzak wrote:
20 Oct 2017, 12:13
Please stop arguing about the go-around!
I think this one deserves to be discussed. It was obviously a show (the pilot reportedly said so himself in
https://www.reuters.com/article/air-ber ... NKBN1CN223) that has nothing to do in a commercial flight. Very immature behaviour for a pilot.

User avatar
luchtzak
Posts: 11280
Joined: 18 Sep 2002, 00:00
Location: Hofstade, Zemst - Belgium
Contact:

Re: Air Berlin files for insolvency as Etihad pulls funding plug

Post by luchtzak » 20 Oct 2017, 12:42

convair wrote:
20 Oct 2017, 12:35
luchtzak wrote:
20 Oct 2017, 12:13
Please stop arguing about the go-around!
I think this one deserves to be discussed. It was obviously a show (the pilot reportedly said so himself in
https://www.reuters.com/article/air-ber ... NKBN1CN223) that has nothing to do in a commercial flight. Very immature behaviour for a pilot.
We will allow the discussion, but I removed a few messages that played the man and not the ball.

Passenger
Posts: 6233
Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Go-around of Air Berlins final long-haul flight #AB7001

Post by Passenger » 20 Oct 2017, 13:47

When a commercial airliner is flying with passengers, the aim must be zero risk. This fly-by had a risk that is bigger then 0 on a scale 0-10, hence it was unsafe. How unsafe? That's up to the German CAA to decide.

The facts that the fly-by was approved by the Tower and that it was executed technically correct, is therefore irrelevant.

(And for every "it's approved by a professional", I could quote two professionals who disagree)

convair
Posts: 1751
Joined: 18 Nov 2011, 00:02

Re: Go-around of Air Berlins final long-haul flight #AB7001

Post by convair » 20 Oct 2017, 14:27

sean1982 wrote:
20 Oct 2017, 12:10

2 aviation professionals say it is ... you say it isn’t... nuff said :D
Whom are you talking about? My aunt Daisy cleans aircraft at BRU, and she disapproves. :)
Last edited by convair on 20 Oct 2017, 16:09, edited 1 time in total.

Post Reply