Kris Peeters, Belgian (federal) minister for Consumer Protection, has launched a court case against Ryanair for false information about the EU legislation (261/2004) and for not respecting the language legislation (i.e. an English e-mail to Dutch and/or French speaking Belgian citizens).
https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2017/10/04 ... st-dwangs/
Ryanair cancels 2,100 flights in Sep-Oct 2017, and 18,000 more in Nov 2017-Mar 2018
Moderator: Latest news team
Re: Ryanair cancels 2,100 flights in Sep-Oct 2017, and 18,000 more in Nov 2017-Mar 2018
Is there an election coming up?Passenger wrote: ↑04 Oct 2017, 17:43 Kris Peeters, Belgian (federal) minister for Consumer Protection, has launched a court case against Ryanair for false information about the EU legislation (261/2004) and for not respecting the language legislation (i.e. an English e-mail to Dutch and/or French speaking Belgian citizens).
https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2017/10/04 ... st-dwangs/
Cheers,
Stij
Re: Ryanair cancels 2,100 flights in Sep-Oct 2017, and 18,000 more in Nov 2017-Mar 2018
In French: http://www.lesoir.be/117624/article/201 ... ue-ryanairPassenger wrote: ↑04 Oct 2017, 17:43 Kris Peeters, Belgian (federal) minister for Consumer Protection, has launched a court case against Ryanair for false information about the EU legislation (261/2004) and for not respecting the language legislation (i.e. an English e-mail to Dutch and/or French speaking Belgian citizens).
https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2017/10/04 ... st-dwangs/
André
ex Sabena #26567
ex Sabena #26567
Re: Ryanair cancels 2,100 flights in Sep-Oct 2017, and 18,000 more in Nov 2017-Mar 2018
In English:sn26567 wrote: ↑04 Oct 2017, 19:16In French: http://www.lesoir.be/117624/article/201 ... ue-ryanairPassenger wrote: ↑04 Oct 2017, 17:43 Kris Peeters, Belgian (federal) minister for Consumer Protection, has launched a court case against Ryanair for false information about the EU legislation (261/2004) and for not respecting the language legislation (i.e. an English e-mail to Dutch and/or French speaking Belgian citizens).
https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2017/10/04 ... st-dwangs/
https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/ryana ... n-against/
http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws.engli ... /1.3077861
Re: Ryanair cancels 2,100 flights in Sep-Oct 2017, and 18,000 more in Nov 2017-Mar 2018
Because all belgian citizens speak automatically one of those 2 languages ?Passenger wrote: ↑04 Oct 2017, 17:43 Kris Peeters, Belgian (federal) minister for Consumer Protection, has launched a court case against Ryanair for false information about the EU legislation (261/2004) and for not respecting the language legislation (i.e. an English e-mail to Dutch and/or French speaking Belgian citizens).
https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2017/10/04 ... st-dwangs/
In 1953 maybe.
In Luxembourg that would sound as a big joke
My messages reflect my personal opinion which may be different than yours. I beleive a forum is made to create a debate so I encourage people to express themselves, the way they want, with the ideas they want. I expect the same understanding in return.
Re: Ryanair cancels 2,100 flights in Sep-Oct 2017, and 18,000 more in Nov 2017-Mar 2018
No. Because Belgian consumer legislation says that the follow up from a signed contract in Dutch or French or German, must be done in that original language.Acid-drop wrote: ↑05 Oct 2017, 11:56Because all belgian citizens speak automatically one of those 2 languages ?In 1953 maybe. In Luxembourg that would sound as a big jokePassenger wrote: ↑04 Oct 2017, 17:43 Kris Peeters, Belgian (federal) minister for Consumer Protection, has launched a court case against Ryanair for false information about the EU legislation (261/2004) and for not respecting the language legislation (i.e. an English e-mail to Dutch and/or French speaking Belgian citizens).
https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2017/10/04 ... st-dwangs/
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Re: Ryanair cancels 2,100 flights in Sep-Oct 2017, and 18,000 more in Nov 2017-Mar 2018
No because of laws and logic.Acid-drop wrote: ↑05 Oct 2017, 11:56Because all belgian citizens speak automatically one of those 2 languages ?Passenger wrote: ↑04 Oct 2017, 17:43 Kris Peeters, Belgian (federal) minister for Consumer Protection, has launched a court case against Ryanair for false information about the EU legislation (261/2004) and for not respecting the language legislation (i.e. an English e-mail to Dutch and/or French speaking Belgian citizens).
https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2017/10/04 ... st-dwangs/
In 1953 maybe.
In Luxembourg that would sound as a big joke
When they want your money they do the effort to present their website in the customers language. Knowing that if the customer can't read what he has to do, they will most likely not book with them. So why would it be OK, when something goes wrong, to not explain what happened and what they can expect in that same language??? Not everyone is able to read or understand English.
Re: Ryanair cancels 2,100 flights in Sep-Oct 2017, and 18,000 more in Nov 2017-Mar 2018
Indeed. It's funny to see that, for selling tickets, Ryanair knows a lot of languages, but for a claim, only English can be used. (Why not Gaelic? That would be fun!)
Ryanair must have a lot of translators to develop its multilingual internet platform. They could be used to handle the claims as well.
Ryanair must have a lot of translators to develop its multilingual internet platform. They could be used to handle the claims as well.
André
ex Sabena #26567
ex Sabena #26567
Re: Ryanair cancels 2,100 flights in Sep-Oct 2017, and 18,000 more in Nov 2017-Mar 2018
Ministers Peeters wants that a judge issues a verdict, stating that Ryanair didn't comply to European Rule 261/2004, by giving misleading information. And he wants a court verdict that Ryanair must address Belgian clients in the language that the contract was signed.
Actually, it will not be the minister who will sue them, but the Algemene Directie Economische Inspectie = FOD Economie / Diréction Générale de l'Inspection Economique = SPF Economie. The Belgian Economical Inspection will also demand a non-compliance penalty for future infracts (my guess: 5.000 Euro for each infract). That's the only language O'Leary understands: money. When there is a penalty in the court verdict and Ryanair does it again, it will cost them more then just 150-250-400 Euro.
Actually, it will not be the minister who will sue them, but the Algemene Directie Economische Inspectie = FOD Economie / Diréction Générale de l'Inspection Economique = SPF Economie. The Belgian Economical Inspection will also demand a non-compliance penalty for future infracts (my guess: 5.000 Euro for each infract). That's the only language O'Leary understands: money. When there is a penalty in the court verdict and Ryanair does it again, it will cost them more then just 150-250-400 Euro.
Re: Ryanair cancels 2,100 flights in Sep-Oct 2017, and 18,000 more in Nov 2017-Mar 2018
DAS (Legal services) reconforms that the 40 € compensation offer is not enough: Ryanair must compensate all real costs (on top of the EU-indemnity):
Sorry, source is DAS NL, thus Dutch only:
https://www.das.nl/over-das/nieuws/gebo ... nair-moet/
Sorry, source is DAS NL, thus Dutch only:
https://www.das.nl/over-das/nieuws/gebo ... nair-moet/
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Re: Ryanair cancels 2,100 flights in Sep-Oct 2017, and 18,000 more in Nov 2017-Mar 2018
Portugal CAA imposed a set of obligations on Ryanair, following cancellations of flights, which may result in a possible prosecution.
André
ex Sabena #26567
ex Sabena #26567
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Re: Ryanair cancels 2,100 flights in Sep-Oct 2017, and 18,000 more in Nov 2017-Mar 2018
I was wondering how it is like beiing a pilot for Ryanair? Are there a lot of Ryanair pilots on this forum?
I find the media deceptive since they're often asking questions to 1 unhappy pilot to represent 10.000 other pilots.
I find the media deceptive since they're often asking questions to 1 unhappy pilot to represent 10.000 other pilots.
Re: Ryanair cancels 2,100 flights in Sep-Oct 2017, and 18,000 more in Nov 2017-Mar 2018
From an article in La Libre Belgique today, it appears that most cancelled flights during the winter season are loss-making flights. Their cancellation is thus a good business for Ryanair.
André
ex Sabena #26567
ex Sabena #26567
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Re: Ryanair cancels 2,100 flights in Sep-Oct 2017, and 18,000 more in Nov 2017-Mar 2018
I cannot be sure, but I don't think there are a lot of pilots at all on this forum. Perhaps better chances at airwork.nl or at pprune. But perhaps professional pilots will have it in the small print of their contract that they are to remain discreet on certain matters - inside affairs in especial?Are there a lot of Ryanair pilots on this forum?
Re: Ryanair cancels 2,100 flights in Sep-Oct 2017, and 18,000 more in Nov 2017-Mar 2018
Probably, as the pilots in the media always want to remain anonymous.
Re: Ryanair cancels 2,100 flights in Sep-Oct 2017, and 18,000 more in Nov 2017-Mar 2018
I can assure you that there are pilots on this forum, and even in the web team
But as you say, they prefer to remain anonymous.
André
ex Sabena #26567
ex Sabena #26567
Re: Ryanair cancels 2,100 flights in Sep-Oct 2017, and 18,000 more in Nov 2017-Mar 2018
Yeah indeed I meant that they prefer to remain anonymous
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Re: Ryanair cancels 2,100 flights in Sep-Oct 2017, and 18,000 more in Nov 2017-Mar 2018
Ryanair Captain Imelda Comer speaks up
Brussels, 12 Oct 2017
European Pilots send an Open letter to Members of the European Parliament:
"Today, Ryanair Capt. Imelda Comer speaks up – and we invite you to listen to what she has to say about the company and the aspirations of Ryanair pilots.
Imelda Comer took the step to reveal her identity. Not an easy step in an environment where many pilots express their fear to be subject to professional disadvantages if they dare to speak up.
She did so by writing an open letter to her boss, Ryanair’s CEO Michael O’Leary.
As a Ryanair pilot, Capt. Imelda Comer speaks on behalf of her colleagues and the newly established interim ‘European Employee Representative Committee’ (EERC).
What they ask for is eminently reasonable, and very simple:
the establishment of a genuine social dialogue between the collective body of Ryanair pilots and their management – not a unilaterally imposed one-way ‘take-it-or-leave-it’ communication; and
permanent direct employment contracts, governed by the local laws of the country where the pilots are based and habitually work from – in line with the recent judgement of the European Court of Justice.
Benchmarking pay and conditions with other comparable airlines, as well as further work-related issues are important, but come second. They are to be agreed upon between genuine pilot representatives chosen by the pilots, and their management.
As the voice of Europe’s professional pilots, the European Cockpit Association would like you – the elected representatives of Europe’s citizens – to be aware of these demands.
And to be aware that there are still companies in Europe that deny their employees effective access to the very fundamental rights of Freedom of Association and Collective Bargaining.
Such disregard for Fundamental Rights, and the precarious atypical employment practices it makes possible, have no place in Europe.
Please take a few minutes and read Imelda Comer’s letter. And please do support her and her colleagues in their quest for being able to exercise their Fundamental rights."
Dirk Polloczek, ECA President
Philip von Schöppenthau, ECA Secretary General
https://www.eurocockpit.be/news/ryanair ... -111958653
Brussels, 12 Oct 2017
European Pilots send an Open letter to Members of the European Parliament:
"Today, Ryanair Capt. Imelda Comer speaks up – and we invite you to listen to what she has to say about the company and the aspirations of Ryanair pilots.
Imelda Comer took the step to reveal her identity. Not an easy step in an environment where many pilots express their fear to be subject to professional disadvantages if they dare to speak up.
She did so by writing an open letter to her boss, Ryanair’s CEO Michael O’Leary.
As a Ryanair pilot, Capt. Imelda Comer speaks on behalf of her colleagues and the newly established interim ‘European Employee Representative Committee’ (EERC).
What they ask for is eminently reasonable, and very simple:
the establishment of a genuine social dialogue between the collective body of Ryanair pilots and their management – not a unilaterally imposed one-way ‘take-it-or-leave-it’ communication; and
permanent direct employment contracts, governed by the local laws of the country where the pilots are based and habitually work from – in line with the recent judgement of the European Court of Justice.
Benchmarking pay and conditions with other comparable airlines, as well as further work-related issues are important, but come second. They are to be agreed upon between genuine pilot representatives chosen by the pilots, and their management.
As the voice of Europe’s professional pilots, the European Cockpit Association would like you – the elected representatives of Europe’s citizens – to be aware of these demands.
And to be aware that there are still companies in Europe that deny their employees effective access to the very fundamental rights of Freedom of Association and Collective Bargaining.
Such disregard for Fundamental Rights, and the precarious atypical employment practices it makes possible, have no place in Europe.
Please take a few minutes and read Imelda Comer’s letter. And please do support her and her colleagues in their quest for being able to exercise their Fundamental rights."
Dirk Polloczek, ECA President
Philip von Schöppenthau, ECA Secretary General
https://www.eurocockpit.be/news/ryanair ... -111958653
Re: Ryanair cancels 2,100 flights in Sep-Oct 2017, and 18,000 more in Nov 2017-Mar 2018
To which Ryanair "Chief People Officer" Eddie Wilson, nicknamed Terminator, replied:
1. Local contracts: no way! Only Irish contracts.
2. Elected staff representatives: no way. Social dialogue only through the official channels, one body in each base. We'll never speak to trade unions.
3. We propose a yearly salary increase of €22,000 for a captain, €11,000 for a copilot, only if they accept these conditions before 1 November.
An ultimatum, thus. Will the pilots accept?
Source: La Libre Belgique
1. Local contracts: no way! Only Irish contracts.
2. Elected staff representatives: no way. Social dialogue only through the official channels, one body in each base. We'll never speak to trade unions.
3. We propose a yearly salary increase of €22,000 for a captain, €11,000 for a copilot, only if they accept these conditions before 1 November.
An ultimatum, thus. Will the pilots accept?
Source: La Libre Belgique
André
ex Sabena #26567
ex Sabena #26567