BRU - Long haul & intercontinental in the medium-long term

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travellover
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Re: BRU - Long haul & intercontinental in the medium-long term

Post by travellover » 08 Aug 2017, 23:48

nordikcam wrote:
08 Aug 2017, 14:21

Currently the HU flight to Beijing is daily. Daily from end of may to...september ? I do not know ! But now there are 7 flights a week !
Source : BRU website
Indeed ! Flights BRU-PEK / PEK-BRU are daily until October 1 included (I didn't know that, it's the first summer they go daily if I remember well).
It returns to the schedule of four flights a week from Monday, October 2, and so forth for the winter schedule.
Source : BRU website, HU website.
Cheers

Jetter
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Re: BRU - Long haul & intercontinental in the medium-long term

Post by Jetter » 09 Aug 2017, 16:39

Sonho1985 wrote:
08 Aug 2017, 23:10
Looking at the technical sheet, an Airbus 330-200 has a range of 13450km full pax/full fuel. LAX and JNB are under 10000km from BRU... ?
That range is assuming generous seating, no cargo, no wind, no reserve fuel and no margin for diversions or hold-ups. Thus far from a realistic range in real life. Also that range is for the latest version, earlier versions had a shorter range.

The new used A333's will replace 2 of the current 4 A332's, meaning there'll be only 2 left. Those would technically make it possible to serve 1 destination only reachable by A332, but it would complicate flight management and allow for very little flexibility when it comes to capacity on all SN's long-haul destinations and the maintenance of the A332's. Realistically any new SN destination in the coming years has to be within the practical and efficient range of the A333's.

I posted it in another topic but it fits better here:
Image

If you see the shades is Asia it's also easy to understand why BOM is SN's first Asian destination: most other destinations can't be reached.

sukhoi
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Re: BRU - Long haul & intercontinental in the medium-long term

Post by sukhoi » 09 Aug 2017, 18:08

Jetter wrote:
09 Aug 2017, 16:39
Sonho1985 wrote:
08 Aug 2017, 23:10
Looking at the technical sheet, an Airbus 330-200 has a range of 13450km full pax/full fuel. LAX and JNB are under 10000km from BRU... ?
That range is assuming generous seating, no cargo, no wind, no reserve fuel and no margin for diversions or hold-ups. Thus far from a realistic range in real life. Also that range is for the latest version, earlier versions had a shorter range.

The new used A333's will replace 2 of the current 4 A332's, meaning there'll be only 2 left. Those would technically make it possible to serve 1 destination only reachable by A332, but it would complicate flight management and allow for very little flexibility when it comes to capacity on all SN's long-haul destinations and the maintenance of the A332's. Realistically any new SN destination in the coming years has to be within the practical and efficient range of the A333's.

I posted it in another topic but it fits better here:
Image

If you see the shades is Asia it's also easy to understand why BOM is SN's first Asian destination: most other destinations can't be reached.
iberia flew madrid tokyo white an airbus a330-200 the distance madrid tokyo is 10793 kms if iberia can fly to tokyo white a330 why can't brussels airlines flew to LAX lax is under the 10 000 kms shorter

Jetter
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Re: BRU - Long haul & intercontinental in the medium-long term

Post by Jetter » 09 Aug 2017, 18:21

sukhoi wrote:
09 Aug 2017, 18:06
iberia flew madrid tokyo white an airbus a330-200 the distance madrid tokyo is 10793 kms if iberia can fly to tokyo white a330 why can't brussels airlines flew to LAX
- I explained why the A330-200 isn't a good reference as SN will have only 2 left.
- IB uses new airplanes that have a (much) larger range than SN's old ones.

PttU
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Re: BRU - Long haul & intercontinental in the medium-long term

Post by PttU » 09 Aug 2017, 22:35

And what about the new(er) A330-300's coming from SQ etc? Will they have a larger range?

DeltaWiskey
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Re: BRU - Long haul & intercontinental in the medium-long term

Post by DeltaWiskey » 09 Aug 2017, 23:20

All A332 can easily do 5000nm rotations.
All future (ex-CX/ex-SQ) A330-300's are upgradeable to 235t MTOW and should be able to reach the west coast (max pax, no cargo) without much problems, there could be a slight payload penalty on days with a strong headwind (on the westbound leg), but it shouldn't be a problem for most of the year.
These long flights also require a 3rd pilot and don't fit that well in the current hub structure, so I think SNs focus will be on routes <4200nm.

Jetter
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Re: BRU - Long haul & intercontinental in the medium-long term

Post by Jetter » 10 Aug 2017, 05:01

PttU wrote:
09 Aug 2017, 22:35
And what about the new(er) A330-300's coming from SQ etc? Will they have a larger range?
Larger than the current A330-300's: yes. Larger than the A330-200's: no. See:

Image
DeltaWiskey wrote:
09 Aug 2017, 23:20
All future (ex-CX/ex-SQ) A330-300's are upgradeable to 235t MTOW and should be able to reach the west coast (max pax, no cargo) without much problems, there could be a slight payload penalty on days with a strong headwind (on the westbound leg), but it shouldn't be a problem for most of the year.
Technically it shouldn't be a problem indeed. But if you're up against competitors in a business like aviation with a small profit margin carrying no cargo while your competitors can is a problem. As the US West-coast is close to the recent versions of the A330's efficient range the small difference in distance between SFO and LAX might matter: SFO is far more realistic as new destination than LAX.

DannyVDB
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Re: BRU - Long haul & intercontinental in the medium-long term

Post by DannyVDB » 10 Aug 2017, 06:50

Was BRU also not discussing with a South American airline to start flights from Lima (?) to BRU. I read somewhere about that rumor, but can't find it back. Any news on that?

PttU
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Re: BRU - Long haul & intercontinental in the medium-long term

Post by PttU » 22 Sep 2017, 22:43

Digging up this discussion... A few times BOS was mentioned as destination. Maybe that wasn't very interesting as DUS-BOS offered by AirBerlin had its part of the share, but now AirBerlin is going defunct, what are the odds of an airline flying BRU-BOS in stead?

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Re: BRU - Long haul & intercontinental in the medium-long term

Post by sn26567 » 22 Sep 2017, 23:48

PttU wrote:
22 Sep 2017, 22:43
Digging up this discussion... A few times BOS was mentioned as a destination. Maybe that wasn't very interesting as DUS-BOS offered by AirBerlin had its part of the share, but now AirBerlin is going defunct, what are the odds of an airline flying BRU-BOS instead?
Unlikely if Eurowings takes over DUS-BOS from Air Berlin.
André
ex Sabena #26567

JOVAN
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Re: BRU - Long haul & intercontinental in the medium-long term

Post by JOVAN » 23 Sep 2017, 06:40

In an interview with Routesonline Magazine, Mr. Faust (BRU) says:
" our key objective is to grow our long haul network with Singapore, Hong Kong, Seoul, Delhi, San Fransisco, Boston, Sao Paulo & Johannesburg all on the radar.

Hong Kong is announced meanwhile.
Singapore by SQ ?
SEL : Asiana ?
Delhi : Air India ?

San F : UA ?
BOS : SN ?
Sao Paulo: LATAM ?
Jo'Burg : Air Belgium ??

DannyVDB
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Re: BRU - Long haul & intercontinental in the medium-long term

Post by DannyVDB » 23 Sep 2017, 09:55

JOVAN wrote:
23 Sep 2017, 06:40
In an interview with Routesonline Magazine, Mr. Faust (BRU) says:
" our key objective is to grow our long haul network with Singapore, Hong Kong, Seoul, Delhi, San Fransisco, Boston, Sao Paulo & Johannesburg all on the radar.
Is this interview somewhere available online? I can't find it ...
JOVAN wrote:
23 Sep 2017, 06:40
Hong Kong is announced meanwhile.
Singapore by SQ ?
SEL : Asiana ?
Delhi : Air India ?
San F : UA ?
BOS : SN ?
Sao Paulo: LATAM ?
Jo'Burg : Air Belgium ??
For Seoul we know they are already in discussion and also politici discussed with Asiana when visiting Soth Korea to open a route to Brussels
I see Delhi rather go to SN. In another interview some motnhs ago, Bernard Gustin said that for the choices of routes they want a new route to have the potential for 40-50% O&D traffic and he said explicitely that if Mumbai is successfully also Delhi would be on the radar.
Well Johannesburg, Air Belgium, yes, but they did not yet kick-off, so wonder what is happening ... Usually no news is good news but in this case I doubt it ...
By the way I am surprised that he does not mention other African destinations. Is the further development of Africa by SN not on the table anymore (e.g. Lagos)?

Danny

JOVAN
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Re: BRU - Long haul & intercontinental in the medium-long term

Post by JOVAN » 23 Sep 2017, 10:21

DannyVDB wrote:
23 Sep 2017, 09:55
JOVAN wrote:
23 Sep 2017, 06:40
In an interview with Routesonline Magazine, Mr. Faust (BRU) says:
" our key objective is to grow our long haul network with Singapore, Hong Kong, Seoul, Delhi, San Fransisco, Boston, Sao Paulo & Johannesburg all on the radar.
Is this interview somewhere available online? I can't find it ...
--> Look at Topic Rwandair to fly to BRU; one of the last posts shows a link to Routesonline Magazine.
There is an interview with Mr. Faust (and a lot of other interesting info about other airlines, airports.

I am not good at copying this links, so have a look ther pls.

nordikcam
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Re: BRU - Long haul & intercontinental in the medium-long term

Post by nordikcam » 23 Sep 2017, 18:48

DannyVDB wrote:
23 Sep 2017, 09:55

Is this interview somewhere available online? I can't find it ...
JOVAN wrote:
23 Sep 2017, 06:40
Hong Kong is announced meanwhile.
Singapore by SQ ?
SEL : Asiana ?
Delhi : Air India ?
San F : UA ?
BOS : SN ?
Sao Paulo: LATAM ?
Jo'Burg : Air Belgium ??
For Seoul we know they are already in discussion and also politici discussed with Asiana when visiting Soth Korea to open a route to Brussels
I see Delhi rather go to SN. In another interview some motnhs ago, Bernard Gustin said that for the choices of routes they want a new route to have the potential for 40-50% O&D traffic and he said explicitely that if Mumbai is successfully also Delhi would be on the radar.
Well Johannesburg, Air Belgium, yes, but they did not yet kick-off, so wonder what is happening ... Usually no news is good news but in this case I doubt it ...
By the way I am surprised that he does not mention other African destinations. Is the further development of Africa by SN not on the table anymore (e.g. Lagos)?

Danny
Maybe this interview ?

https://content.yudu.com/web/2zc2/0Auv9 ... 2017-11501

JOVAN
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Re: BRU - Long haul & intercontinental in the medium-long term

Post by JOVAN » 26 Sep 2017, 12:25

nordikcam wrote:
23 Sep 2017, 18:48
DannyVDB wrote:
23 Sep 2017, 09:55

Is this interview somewhere available online? I can't find it ...
JOVAN wrote:
23 Sep 2017, 06:40
Hong Kong is announced meanwhile.
Singapore by SQ ?
SEL : Asiana ?
Delhi : Air India ?
San F : UA ?
BOS : SN ?
Sao Paulo: LATAM ?
Jo'Burg : Air Belgium ??
For Seoul we know they are already in discussion and also politici discussed with Asiana when visiting Soth Korea to open a route to Brussels
I see Delhi rather go to SN. In another interview some motnhs ago, Bernard Gustin said that for the choices of routes they want a new route to have the potential for 40-50% O&D traffic and he said explicitely that if Mumbai is successfully also Delhi would be on the radar.
Well Johannesburg, Air Belgium, yes, but they did not yet kick-off, so wonder what is happening ... Usually no news is good news but in this case I doubt it ...
By the way I am surprised that he does not mention other African destinations. Is the further development of Africa by SN not on the table anymore (e.g. Lagos)?

Danny
Maybe this interview ?

https://content.yudu.com/web/2zc2/0Auv9 ... 2017-11501

THANKS

DannyVDB
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Re: BRU - Long haul & intercontinental in the medium-long term

Post by DannyVDB » 01 Nov 2017, 08:31

Besides the mentioned destinations earlier in this tpic it seems that VLM and/or Air Belgium will try fishing in the big Chinese pool with some 'secondary' cities.

For VLM this could be: Shenzen, Chengdu, Xian en Tianjin. They are of course very big cities in their own right :D For example Tianjin is 1) 'close' to Bejing and it is a(n) important) port. However, VLM does not have long haul planes yet. How could they start then in Spring 2018 (time is going fast).

Would Air Belgium still go for Hong Kong (in competition with Cathay) or rather try other Chines cities or even Singapore, Taipei, Delhi ... I also read somehwere Macau (?)

What with the VIM plans from Liège. Will hat be replaced by Air Belgium/VLM @BRU?

So probably something will start; but by whom, when and for how long :mrgreen: ?

Any news on Seoul? I guess the potential start by Asiana is linked to the delivery of A350's ... But this is also going slower than expected.

Danny

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Re: BRU - Long haul & intercontinental in the medium-long term

Post by nordikcam » 01 Nov 2017, 10:51

DannyVDB wrote:
01 Nov 2017, 08:31
Besides the mentioned destinations earlier in this tpic it seems that VLM and/or Air Belgium will try fishing in the big Chinese pool with some 'secondary' cities.

For VLM this could be: Shenzen, Chengdu, Xian en Tianjin. They are of course very big cities in their own right :D For example Tianjin is 1) 'close' to Bejing and it is a(n) important) port. However, VLM does not have long haul planes yet. How could they start then in Spring 2018 (time is going fast).

Would Air Belgium still go for Hong Kong (in competition with Cathay) or rather try other Chines cities or even Singapore, Taipei, Delhi ... I also read somehwere Macau (?)

What with the VIM plans from Liège. Will hat be replaced by Air Belgium/VLM @BRU?

So probably something will start; but by whom, when and for how long :mrgreen: ?

Any news on Seoul? I guess the potential start by Asiana is linked to the delivery of A350's ... But this is also going slower than expected.

Danny
About Macao you have read this here but it is not indicated that AB could serve Macao. They told about Macao as the second most densely populated region of China after Hong Kong.

https://www.lecho.be/economie-politique ... 18/9948143

Correct me if I'm wrong. And what about new intercontinental destinations for SN ? Nothing in 2018 because no aircraft ?

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Re: BRU - Long haul & intercontinental in the medium-long term

Post by travellover » 01 Nov 2017, 11:18

And is there something going on about the SN perhaps UA evening flight to New York JFK or EWR ?
Is there in 2017 a strong demand from BRU to New York in the evening like it was at the time of Sabena, with many connecting flights from the european network ?

The mini long haul wave of the evening takes shape with daily flights to hubs in Africa, the middle east and Asia:

Addis Ababa : ET (daily from 12 december 2017).
Dubaï : EK (new from 29 october 2017).
Tokyo : NH
Kigali : WB (three times a week).

And the connecting european network.
Has it has already been written here before, to fly across the Atlantic Ocean in the evening is missing.

If SN is targeting DEL, LBV, LOS for the long haul network expansion, any news of when this might happen ?

Thanks.
Cheers

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Re: BRU - Long haul & intercontinental in the medium-long term

Post by DannyVDB » 01 Nov 2017, 12:27

I think that some of the flights of Qatar Airways are also in the evening ... (4 or so)
D

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Re: BRU - Long haul & intercontinental in the medium-long term

Post by travellover » 01 Nov 2017, 12:59

Yes, QR mention 4 flights but in the afternoon.

QR is flying daily. Double daily on fridays only.
Early morning flights on days 2,4,5,6 : arrival : 06:35, departure : 08:00
Afternoon flights on days 1,3,5,7 : arrival : 14:00, departure : 15:40
Cheers

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