Social dumping at Cityjet operating for Brussels Airlines ?

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Poiu
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Re: Social dumping at Cityjet operating for Brussels Airlines ?

Post by Poiu »

Dwarsligger wrote: 08 Aug 2017, 12:47 That is circumventing the law

No, that IS the law! (Read EU465 please)
Do you think the specific articles about aircrew in many double taxation agreements and EU465, specific for aircrew based in one country and working for a company from another country, would exist, if doing so would be illegal?

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b.lufthansa
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Re: Social dumping at Cityjet operating for Brussels Airlines ?

Post by b.lufthansa »

En het boeltje rommelt maar verder! Schandalig!

http://www.dewereldmorgen.be/artikel/20 ... t-carriers

crew1990
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Re: Social dumping at Cityjet operating for Brussels Airlines ?

Post by crew1990 »

b.lufthansa wrote: 01 Sep 2017, 14:26 En het boeltje rommelt maar verder! Schandalig!

http://www.dewereldmorgen.be/artikel/20 ... t-carriers
Is this so hard to write in English?

Passenger
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Re: Social dumping at Cityjet operating for Brussels Airlines ?

Post by Passenger »

b.lufthansa wrote: 01 Sep 2017, 14:26 En het boeltje rommelt maar verder! Schandalig!
http://www.dewereldmorgen.be/artikel/20 ... t-carriers
It is not "het boeltje gaat verder" - the story goes on. This is just an article, a few weeks after the first publication, by a verrry lefty journalist in a verrry lefty publication. Niks meer, niks minder.

teach
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Joined: 23 Feb 2005, 00:00

Re: Social dumping at Cityjet operating for Brussels Airlines ?

Post by teach »

Passenger wrote: 01 Sep 2017, 14:48
b.lufthansa wrote: 01 Sep 2017, 14:26 En het boeltje rommelt maar verder! Schandalig!
http://www.dewereldmorgen.be/artikel/20 ... t-carriers
It is not "het boeltje gaat verder" - the story goes on. This is just an article, a few weeks after the first publication, by a verrry lefty journalist in a verrry lefty publication. Niks meer, niks minder.
So are you claiming the issue isn't real, or doesn't deserve to get any attention?

Passenger
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Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Social dumping at Cityjet operating for Brussels Airlines ?

Post by Passenger »

teach wrote: 01 Sep 2017, 17:41
Passenger wrote: 01 Sep 2017, 14:48
b.lufthansa wrote: 01 Sep 2017, 14:26 En het boeltje rommelt maar verder! Schandalig!
http://www.dewereldmorgen.be/artikel/20 ... t-carriers
It is not "het boeltje gaat verder" - the story goes on. This is just an article, a few weeks after the first publication, by a verrry lefty journalist in a verrry lefty publication. Niks meer, niks minder.
So are you claiming the issue isn't real, or doesn't deserve to get any attention?
I'm claiming nothing. I only said that the article is just a repeat from something that has been reported and posted before. Hence no need for a comment "en het boeltje rommelt maar verder! Schandalig".

Any new facts?

Jaguar
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Joined: 29 Nov 2014, 14:21

Re: Social dumping at Cityjet operating for Brussels Airlines ?

Post by Jaguar »

A repeat ? Yes
New elements? Yes although not much

Several belgian cabin crew members who dared to speak or get involved with the belgian union, got fired on the spot, and have neither received nor salary nor paperwork nor any other documents or even a proper explication from Nobox.
The remainder of the belgian crews are scared shitless to open their mouth and have probably all applied at brussels airlines with the only thing they got out of this fiasco ' a cabin crew attestation'

Nobox is looking for HR specialists in workers tax admin for several countries, including one for Belgian law

Might they be looking for a chance to clean up this mess?

Lefties, righties, middlies , this is Belgium not eastern europe :shock:

crew1990
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Joined: 29 Dec 2010, 21:46

Re: Social dumping at Cityjet operating for Brussels Airlines ?

Post by crew1990 »

Why Brussels Airlines is not using some of their own crew with a city jet qualification for the SSJ100.
So cockpit Cityjet and Cabin Crew Brussels Airlines

teach
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Joined: 23 Feb 2005, 00:00

Re: Social dumping at Cityjet operating for Brussels Airlines ?

Post by teach »

Passenger wrote: 01 Sep 2017, 17:49 I'm claiming nothing. I only said that the article is just a repeat from something that has been reported and posted before. Hence no need for a comment "en het boeltje rommelt maar verder! Schandalig".

Any new facts?
This has been going on for a while. It appears to STILL not have been fixed, even though there's been plenty of time. Quite the contrary, everyone daring to speak up about it is apparently fired. That's illegal. That alone is MORE than enough to justify the 'het boeltje rommelt maar verder' claim, because it indicates it IS still going on.
Last edited by teach on 01 Sep 2017, 22:15, edited 1 time in total.

Poiu
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Re: Social dumping at Cityjet operating for Brussels Airlines ?

Post by Poiu »

crew1990 wrote: 01 Sep 2017, 22:11 Why Brussels Airlines is not using some of their own crew with a city jet qualification for the SSJ100.
So cockpit Cityjet and Cabin Crew Brussels Airlines
Because they would not accept the salary and working conditions offered by CityJet.
The whole setup was reducing costs, that is why SN is putting his head in the sand. The only solution is going to court. CityJet has been convicted in other countries, but it will take time. In France, Air France got fined as well because they wetleased Cityjet, who was not complying with French labour law.

sean1982
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Re: Social dumping at Cityjet operating for Brussels Airlines ?

Post by sean1982 »

Passenger wrote: 01 Sep 2017, 17:49
teach wrote: 01 Sep 2017, 17:41
Passenger wrote: 01 Sep 2017, 14:48
It is not "het boeltje gaat verder" - the story goes on. This is just an article, a few weeks after the first publication, by a verrry lefty journalist in a verrry lefty publication. Niks meer, niks minder.
So are you claiming the issue isn't real, or doesn't deserve to get any attention?
I'm claiming nothing. I only said that the article is just a repeat from something that has been reported and posted before. Hence no need for a comment "en het boeltje rommelt maar verder! Schandalig".

Any new facts?
No surprise that you're defending this when it's about SN but that it was a drama in four parts when it was FR. Double standards much?? :roll:

Jaguar
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Joined: 29 Nov 2014, 14:21

Re: Social dumping at Cityjet operating for Brussels Airlines ?

Post by Jaguar »

Cityjet is downsizing their own crews, and going all the way for acmi flights, eg SAS, SN , etc..

Sean has a valid point. Lets beg to differ but the entire industry is doing practically the same.
FR with crewlink,Cityjet with Nobox, now SAS Ireland is outsourcing crew from lhr with CAE , also here at bottom rock low sad wages, maybe 60 percent of what BA mixed fleet offers or virgin atlantic.

They are all acting like a temp agency, squeezing the most out of it and having plenty of naive and willing candidates.
But in countries like ours where minimum wages have to be respected, and huge HR paperwork stuff, it is shameful that this can go on and on for what is now almost half a year!
And they keep on recruiting and a huntin

Passenger
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Re: Social dumping at Cityjet operating for Brussels Airlines ?

Post by Passenger »

In their continuous drive to bash their competitor airlines, some have lost all sense of reality. Actually, what are we talking about here? What is the source? A press release from our Social Inspection? A court verdict, like with Ryanair? No: a press statement, without further proof, from a trade union. And about who? About 20 crew members. Twenty. That's 1,25% of all Brussels Airlines crew and 0,60% of all Brussels Airlines employees. What a poorly organized "social dumping" by that airline!

Fact: the SSJ Cityjet lease is a wetlease - thus limiting the influence by the final client regarding the contracts. And how many of those 20 crew members are Belgian? Those who have done their homework, know that the aircraft usually spend the night in an outstation (mostly Stockholm and Edinburgh). Maybe that's "home" for some of the crew?

sean1982
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Re: Social dumping at Cityjet operating for Brussels Airlines ?

Post by sean1982 »

Saying that the final client has not much to say over a wetlease is BS. A wetlease is build up as an a-la-carte service for the client not a "take it or leave it" contract, especially when knowing that NOBOX (on behalf of cityjet on behalf of SN) launched a few recruitment campaings in Belgium to get as much NL/FR speaking senior crew members as possible :roll: All crew who work for cityjet on behalf of Brussels airlines are based in BRU and its more than 20 :) and does it matter whether they are Belgian or not? Does a polish/Portuguese/Spanish crew member working in Belgium have less rights than a Belgian one in your opinion?

Passenger
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Re: Social dumping at Cityjet operating for Brussels Airlines ?

Post by Passenger »

sean1982 wrote: 04 Sep 2017, 10:21 All crew who work for cityjet on behalf of Brussels airlines are based in BRU and its more than 20.
A quote from the only source about this story: "Around twenty people may be affected".

(20 = just 1,25% of all Brussels Airlines crew)

sean1982
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Re: Social dumping at Cityjet operating for Brussels Airlines ?

Post by sean1982 »

Passenger wrote: 04 Sep 2017, 16:38
sean1982 wrote: 04 Sep 2017, 10:21 All crew who work for cityjet on behalf of Brussels airlines are based in BRU and its more than 20.
A quote from the only source about this story: "Around twenty people may be affected".

(20 = just 1,25% of all Brussels Airlines crew)
so you are claiming that only 20 CCM's work for NOBOX on behalf of cityjet on behalf of SN? And even if so, do 1,25% of all Brussels Airlines crew deserve to be treated differently?

jan_olieslagers
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Re: Social dumping at Cityjet operating for Brussels Airlines ?

Post by jan_olieslagers »

Wilma! Bring more popcorn! Statler and Waldorf are up again!

Passenger
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Re: Social dumping at Cityjet operating for Brussels Airlines ?

Post by Passenger »

sean1982 wrote: 04 Sep 2017, 20:11 so you are claiming that only 20 CCM's work for NOBOX on behalf of cityjet on behalf of SN?
I claim nothing. I only quoted from the very post in this topic: quote: "...Brussels Airlines is collaborating with the Irish company CityJet for some flights. This company further sub-contracts the cabin staff management function to its compatriot Nobox. Around twenty people may be affected..."
https://www.aviation24.be/forums/viewtopic ... 34#p352867

sean1982
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Re: Social dumping at Cityjet operating for Brussels Airlines ?

Post by sean1982 »

you still didn't answer my questions? Why would only 20 of the nobox employees be on the inferior contracts? are the other ones on better contracts? if so, why does that inequality exist?

sean1982
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Re: Social dumping at Cityjet operating for Brussels Airlines ?

Post by sean1982 »

jan_olieslagers wrote: 04 Sep 2017, 20:25 Wilma! Bring more popcorn! Statler and Waldorf are up again!
seems all you're doing lately is telling people what not to post, including some very valued posters. Something about splinter and balk springs to mind

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