PowdAir, a new Sion-based airline with flights to a.o. Antwerp

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convair
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Re: PowdAir, a new Sion-based airline with flights to a.o. Antwerp

Post by convair » 20 Jun 2017, 15:23

Passenger wrote:
20 Jun 2017, 13:20
convair wrote:
20 Jun 2017, 12:50
jan_olieslagers wrote:
20 Jun 2017, 12:37
Perhaps it can be done with reduced loads - as SN did to operate B737's there.
Probably, but skis and other equipment + winter clothes won't make it easy to reduce loads while maintaining enough revenues.
Is included in their fares:
Free ski and snowboard carriage
23kg hold baggage allowance
+ all what the pax can possibly wear for the trip! ;)

Poiu
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Re: PowdAir, a new Sion-based airline with flights to a.o. Antwerp

Post by Poiu » 20 Jun 2017, 18:19

What about Beontop's A318s? That would work in Antwerp.

DIBO
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Re: PowdAir, a new Sion-based airline with flights to a.o. Antwerp

Post by DIBO » 20 Jun 2017, 20:58

Keep an eye on SkyWork Airlines... ;)

AAI
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Re: PowdAir, a new Sion-based airline with flights to a.o. Antwerp

Post by AAI » 20 Jun 2017, 22:01

@ Dibo : you might be right! 😶

concerning Powdair aircraft : it has now been confirmed that instead, Powdair will use one Embraer 170 or Embraer 190 regional jet, depending on demand.

i can't believe they will start with 2 aircraft
i think they will combine flights in the beginning.
f.e. SIR ANR MAN ANR SIR

VLM_Antwerp
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Re: PowdAir, a new Sion-based airline with flights to a.o. Antwerp

Post by VLM_Antwerp » 20 Jun 2017, 22:02

What is Sion and Antwerp doing in Skywork's booking system?
They don't operate any Embraer aircrafts to deploy the announced routes for Powdair.
Attachments
Schermafbeelding 2017-06-20 om 21.55.47.png


AAI
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Re: PowdAir, a new Sion-based airline with flights to a.o. Antwerp

Post by AAI » 20 Jun 2017, 22:58

In autumn, they are replacing their DO328 by Embraer 170 and 190/195.

Passenger
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Re: PowdAir, a new Sion-based airline with flights to a.o. Antwerp

Post by Passenger » 21 Jun 2017, 14:23

I've compared the SkyWork Airlines booking that Luchtzak member DIBO posted with the same dates in the booking engine on Powdair.ski, and both airlines operate the same routing with almost the same schedule:

Sion-Antwerp 14th Dec 2017:
SkyWork Airlines: SX-2310: 08h00-09h15
Powdair: POW-466: 08h30-09h40

Antwerp-Sion 4th Jan 2018:
SkyWork Airlines: SX-2311: 10h00-11h15
Powdair: POW467: 10h25-11h35

If these are indeed the same flights, one of the two airlines is violating the European legislation stating that an airline must clearly advise they are not the operating airline.

luchtzak SkyWorks.jpg
luchtzak SkyWorks.jpg (74.53 KiB) Viewed 3470 times

luchtzak powdair 14 dec 4 jan.png

AAI
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Re: PowdAir, a new Sion-based airline with flights to a.o. Antwerp

Post by AAI » 21 Jun 2017, 17:39

and Powdair 's timetable shows 4 flights / week
Sky Work 2 flights / week

PttU
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Re: PowdAir, a new Sion-based airline with flights to a.o. Antwerp

Post by PttU » 22 Jun 2017, 12:18

AAI wrote:
20 Jun 2017, 22:01

i can't believe they will start with 2 aircraft
i think they will combine flights in the beginning.
f.e. SIR ANR MAN ANR SIR
According to the currently published timetable at https://www.powdair.ski/destinations/timetable.html, let's look at Monday:
8:30 Sion -> Luton, 9:45 Luton -> Sion
8:00 Sion -> Hamburg, 10:15: Hamburg -> Sion

12:45 Sion -> Southampton, 14:00 Southampton -> Sion
13:00 Sion -> Antwerp, 15:00 Antwerp -> Sion
That looks like 2 aircraft operating 2 rotations per day. This doesn't fit in a Sion-Luton-Hamburg or Sion-Antwerp-Southampton triangle.

But as they are subject to change, the maybe can combine them if there are not enough bookings...

Passenger
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Re: PowdAir, a new Sion-based airline with flights to a.o. Antwerp

Post by Passenger » 22 Jun 2017, 12:52

I really don't understand how it's possible that someone who calls himself "an airline" is allowed to sell tickets in Belgium (= out of Antwerp), when they are no airline (yet).

If mr Buelens needs to know which law forbits such practice: it's the 2010 WMPC (fair market practices and consumer protection), chapter misleading information, Art. VI.97. In brief: it is forbitten to lie about the company identity when a qualification or recognizition is required for the business one operates. Example: one may call himself "aviation consultant" or "aircraft broker" or "paragnost". But it's forbitten to call one self "an airline" without having an AOC.

So far, Powdair is a ticket seller. Not an airline.

(just like Air Belgium indeed. But AB doesn't sell tickets yet).

ironspan
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Re: PowdAir, a new Sion-based airline with flights to a.o. Antwerp

Post by ironspan » 22 Jun 2017, 15:50

Again I am surprised by the scepticism of the airline enthusiasts posting messages on this forum. Not so long ago, people were complaining about the lack of initiatives at Antwerp Airport, or were very negative about new VLM start-up plans, or were questioning the necessity of having E190s taking off or landing at 0630 early morning. And now we have a new airline announcing flights 4 times a week during day-time, and hop, people start to raise doubts about the feasibility or credibility of the new initiative (to the extent that the airline has to reply to the allegations/accusations on this forum!).

I cannot believe that 8 Airport Managers (including Mr Buelens) in the EU would allow an airline to start advertising and offering tickets for new routes, if this was not supported by a business plan or a company with good credentials. I do not believe that national authorities would allow a company selling fraudulous tickets on-line. I do not believe that a reliable SWISS company as Skyworks Airlines would get involved in criminal activities (by the way, their management visited Antwerp Airport a few weeks ago).

So again, I will repeat my request: stop nagging or trying to find reasons to kill an initiative (I wonder if the same people would be as critical if these flights would have been announced from Brussels...), be positive, support every initiative that ensures sustainable growth in Antwerp or book book a trip with the new airline!

Rest assured, I do not mind a critical note, but within reason (we have to fight the 'green' fundamentalists already on other platforms!).

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cathay belgium
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Re: PowdAir, a new Sion-based airline with flights to a.o. Antwerp

Post by cathay belgium » 22 Jun 2017, 16:17

Hi,

Moderators, how more politics can you post in a reply ?
ironspan wrote:
22 Jun 2017, 15:50
Rest assured, I do not mind a critical note, but within reason (we have to fight the 'green' fundamentalists already on other platforms!).
What's next ... supporting TRUMP ?

Nagging, killing initiatives isn't done on a hobby website like luchtzak...
Let's call it discussions between aviation-likers where some already are long enough around here to keep with sustainable toughts about some events in the -hopefully- near future...

Be-On-Top, VLM, BMI to name a few ANR based ideas... and then Maastricht Airlines and .....

CXB
New types flown 2020 : A321neo,B781
New types planned : PC12

convair
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Re: PowdAir, a new Sion-based airline with flights to a.o. Antwerp

Post by convair » 22 Jun 2017, 16:39

ironspan wrote:
22 Jun 2017, 15:50
Again I am surprised by the scepticism of the airline enthusiasts posting messages on this forum. Not so long ago, people were complaining about the lack of initiatives at Antwerp Airport, or were very negative about new VLM start-up plans, or were questioning the necessity of having E190s taking off or landing at 0630 early morning. And now we have a new airline announcing flights 4 times a week during day-time, and hop, people start to raise doubts about the feasibility or credibility of the new initiative (to the extent that the airline has to reply to the allegations/accusations on this forum!).

I cannot believe that 8 Airport Managers (including Mr Buelens) in the EU would allow an airline to start advertising and offering tickets for new routes, if this was not supported by a business plan or a company with good credentials. I do not believe that national authorities would allow a company selling fraudulous tickets on-line. I do not believe that a reliable SWISS company as Skyworks Airlines would get involved in criminal activities (by the way, their management visited Antwerp Airport a few weeks ago).

So again, I will repeat my request: stop nagging or trying to find reasons to kill an initiative (I wonder if the same people would be as critical if these flights would have been announced from Brussels...), be positive, support every initiative that ensures sustainable growth in Antwerp or book book a trip with the new airline!

Rest assured, I do not mind a critical note, but within reason (we have to fight the 'green' fundamentalists already on other platforms!).
I am surprised that you are surprised. After so many failed attempts to start "new" services from ANR, some of them ending up as bankruptcies, scepticism is the only reasonnable option.
Every day there are people who lose money because they trusted unreliable people.

Of course new services, backed by a solid and well-identified company, would be welcome at ANR! (Although I am not personnally concerned as I do not live in that area)

Now, will you put your money where your mouth is and buy tickets from Powdair? And,btw, why are they hiding behind SkyWork?

ironspan
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Re: PowdAir, a new Sion-based airline with flights to a.o. Antwerp

Post by ironspan » 22 Jun 2017, 17:22

To Convair: Thanks, you are right, many tried and failed in Antwerp, that is the reality. And many times it had nothing to do with the airport itself, if you see for example how a very well organised & profitable airline as VLM was completely mismanaged and destroyed in a short time frame, then I understand you can get sceptical. But as an aviation-liker (😃), I am now following the operations on this airport for more that 40 years and I have never been so optimistic about the positive vibes and things happening (thanks to Mr Buelens and EGIS). Of course, if there are no bookings, then this new route will fail also, but we should avoid to put doubts in the minds of any potential customers upfront. I don't think they hide behind Skyworks, they sell the tickets, Skyworks is the operator (isn't this scheme also applied when you book holiday packages with otherbtour operators?). Anyway, I understand your concerns, and thanks for your support.

To cathay pacific: I have no idea what Trump (?!), BMI, Maastricht Airlines, Be-On-Top (do not even know what this is?) has to do with this discussion. Would be great if we can remain on the topic, would be pleased to see any counter-arguments you may have to the points on Powdair/Skyworks which I raised.

convair
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Re: PowdAir, a new Sion-based airline with flights to a.o. Antwerp

Post by convair » 22 Jun 2017, 17:54

To Ironspan: Thanks for your courteous reply. I'm also pro-aviation, as most people on this Forum I believe, and wish Prodair every success.

Maybe they would be more convincing if they were a little more transparent; member Passenger made a few points hereabove, that deserve a clear answer imho.

ironspan
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Re: PowdAir, a new Sion-based airline with flights to a.o. Antwerp

Post by ironspan » 22 Jun 2017, 18:14

To Convair: Thanks, appreciated.
Please find below a link to an article (unfortunately in German) on a Swiss website, which indeed confirms some of 'passenger' remarks. Reading this article (published 1 day ago), it is clear that there is some link between the 2 companies, but nobody wishes to confirm yet (they are still negotiating). To be continued.

https://www.travelnews.ch/flug/5819-sky ... ungen.html

Passenger
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Re: PowdAir, a new Sion-based airline with flights to a.o. Antwerp

Post by Passenger » 22 Jun 2017, 18:33

The reason why it's wait and see with all other parties involved, is because the passengers' funds are secured at this moment:

- Powdair has a booking engine with a very solid reputation: WorldTicket
http://www.worldticket.com/

- bookings have to be paid via credit card. So in case something goes wrong before they start, the credit card company (or their insurer) will refund.

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sn26567
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Re: PowdAir, a new Sion-based airline with flights to a.o. Antwerp

Post by sn26567 » 22 Jun 2017, 18:49

Powdair (Ireland) is raising US$5 million and plans to apply for an Irish AOC in July 2017. Powdair aims to fly from the UK, Germany, Belgium and possibly Ireland to Switzerland in 2017.
André
ex Sabena #26567

convair
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Re: PowdAir, a new Sion-based airline with flights to a.o. Antwerp

Post by convair » 22 Jun 2017, 21:53

OK. The fog is slowly starting to dissipate.

On the Swiss site mentioned above by Ironspan, Powdair (not Prodair as I erroneously wrote!) is said to be a British company though.

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