SN Brussels Airlines looks for partners in Asia

Join this forum to discuss the latest news that happened in the world of commercial aviation.

Moderator: Latest news team

User avatar
OrientThai
Posts: 243
Joined: 27 Aug 2004, 00:00
Location: Belgium&Thailand

Post by OrientThai »

When TG was still flying to BRU, they were flying via ZRH. So maybe if they come back they will fly via another european city.

User avatar
Avro
Posts: 8856
Joined: 28 Apr 2003, 00:00
Location: Belgium

Post by Avro »

Well for the moment there are a lot (if not thousands) of roumors going around about different carriers that could come to BRU to linking Asia again.

Let's just hope that some of them will come true, but let us not dream too much ;)

But if there is some smoke there must be some fire, right ?

Chris
Last edited by Avro on 06 Sep 2004, 13:34, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
sn26567
Posts: 40828
Joined: 13 Feb 2003, 00:00
Location: Rosières/Rozieren, Belgium
Contact:

Post by sn26567 »

Avro wrote:But if there is some somke there must be some fire, right ?
I guess you mean "smoke". The question now is not anymore "if", but "when" and "with whom".
André
ex Sabena #26567

User avatar
Avro
Posts: 8856
Joined: 28 Apr 2003, 00:00
Location: Belgium

Post by Avro »

sn26567 wrote:
Avro wrote:But if there is some somke there must be some fire, right ?
I guess you mean "smoke".
Oops sorry :oops: Of course I ment smoke and corrected it ;)
The question now is not anymore "if", but "when" and "with whom".
Yes, and unfortunately not all of them will be coming...

Chris

User avatar
tolipanebas
Posts: 2442
Joined: 12 May 2004, 00:00

Post by tolipanebas »

Well whoever it will be, it will certainly NOT be a Star alliance airline, since this alliance has set its mind on BRU (LH has) and is doing everything to kill SN. :evil:

I don't know if it is a general policy of star not to colaborate with non members in any way, or if it is just a special thing LH has against SN because they feel SN has 'stolen' part of their homemarket (yet, you've read it correctly, LH conciders BRU as their home market too 8O !!!), but the facts are that:

LH was one of the last airlines in the world to accept SN tickets for interline (lowest form of airline cooperation, promoted by IATA to get stranded pax home quicker)!

There isn't a single SN flight in code share with a star alliance partner!

LOT immediately gave up the code share with SN on the WAW route when they joined Star. :?

It is rumoured TAP too will have to drop all code shares between LIS and BRU (and on the SN flights beyond to places like GOT, ARN, ...) once they will have joined star. :cry:

If the policy of star hasn't changed over the last months (we will see what TAP does), then we can drop Thai and All Nippon Airways from the shortlist.

A further question: why explicitly mention China? Sabena NEVER had a link with China, so in my feeling there is an unwanted hint at the future partner there: SN wants to reach Japan, but since it will not be done directly, they include China in their off-the-record press talks: it most likely will be eather Cathay (Oneworld partner) with A340 8) or China Eastern (also with A340)

regi
Posts: 5140
Joined: 02 Sep 2004, 00:00
Location: Bruges

Post by regi »

this story isn't over yet, dear group.
let us talk about potential, and some figures. Take Best Tours. In the good days Best tours arranged each year a holiday for 20.000 Belgians in Thailand. Wow. It was the single biggest tour operator to Thailand. The best proof of this was the genuine respect that the Thai embassador had for Mr. Boone Sr , the boss of Best Tours. In those days they were transferring from Tarom to Sobelair for the air transfer. Now they mostly use Thai.
20.000 a year. 400 single class 747 of e.g. Orient Thai. Makes 50 flights a year. That is about 1 time a week? Okay, too simple calculation, we have the low season effect as well. But come on guys, the potential is there.
On the Best tours website we read that they have 87 % of the thai tourist market.
I think we need to be a bit humble and ask Boone Jr. what he thinks about it.
Potential? If we agree to drive 3 hours to Paris, Amsterdam or Dusseldorf for a flight to Bangkok, or agree to make strange and long stopovers in FRA, LHR, Vienna, Dubai or where ever, than the dutch , northern french and some germans will take the brussels flights as well. And if there is an agreement with a UK company, the potential coming from the UK will be huge.
The potential is there, remains the question why not.
I think many people know : too expensive (because of some reasons)

User avatar
Ozzie1969
Posts: 752
Joined: 03 Sep 2004, 00:00
Location: Brugge, Flanders + Annan, Scotland + Ormoc,Philippines
Contact:

Post by Ozzie1969 »

I have flown to BKK twice, in 2002 and 2003. On both occasions I left from CDG, first trip on Gulf Air with stops in BAH and DXB, second on EVA Airways with a stop in TPE. Not exactly the most convenient of routes, both in time spent and miles flown, but due to late booking they were the best I could get. I must say I met surprisingly few compatriots while in Bangkok, although I can't believe that at least one flight a week from BRU can't be filled, especially in the high season.

regi
Posts: 5140
Joined: 02 Sep 2004, 00:00
Location: Bruges

Post by regi »

well Ozzie,
same experiences with me.
Eva was nice, Bru-Vienna-BKK with just some hours stop in Vienna.
But departing from CDG involves the transfer Bruges-CDG...Doing a stopover in Dubai with Gulf, Emirates, Etihad makes you realise that we are not that rich over here in Belgium. Btw, the gold is really cheap in Dubai.
(About Belgians in Bangkok: there are 800 officially listed Belgians. And about 5000 in the hole kingdom. That you don't meet Belgians - expats or tourists - is just because they are not so recognisable as e.g. Englishmen or Germans. The Belgian association in Bangkok is quite active. In Pattaya the flemish gather around the Belgian restaurant of Patrick. A lot of socialising.)
Coming back to the subject: the lack of non-stop flights between Brussels and Bangkok is really a big subject among the Belgians.
About quick connections:the fastest connection I ever had was - unbelievable - with Biman! Bangkok-1 hour Dhaka-Brussels, no extra fuelstops. Turkish and Austrian provide quick connections as well, going over small airports without big delays as Frankfurt, Heathrow, CDG.
The Phuket Air from Gatwick costs about 580 £ = 950 euro! Not cheap. And without a ticket to Gatwick.

SN30952
Posts: 7128
Joined: 31 Jul 2003, 00:00

A so-called monopoly to break?

Post by SN30952 »

regi wrote:The best proof of this was the genuine respect that the Thai embassador had....
Are you talking about the same person that had to flee Thailand with his trousers on his arm, Regi? Or is Mr Snoh misleading me?:offtopic:
regi wrote:...they have 87 % of the thai tourist market.
That is in fact all the problem. The product is been sold price driven. And no diversity in the product, slowly suffocates the market.
The figures I have given higher indicate clearly that 87% is incorrect. Because the market is evolving, luckily.
But the market image Thailand 'enjoys' in Belgium, due to a self declared monopoly by one tour operator, is poor. And that marketing did not work out for them in the Netherlands nor in France.
The Netherlands have a wide gamut of tour operators offering Thailand, as single destination or in multiple stops circuits. And its that diversity that created that big dutch volume.
A second or more important TO's from Belgium to Thailand will forcedly break the neck of that so-called monoply. Or a Thai carrier in cooperation with such TO's could do good to the belgian market.

And btw, flying Tarom in these years was well an indication for the price driven policy. The end of the cooperation coincided with a fatal crash* of a Tarom Airbus. A great chance for said TO, otherwise this would have been the end.

*RO 371 Date: 31 MAR 1995 Type: Airbus A310-324
Departure airport: Bucharest-Otopeni International Airport (OTP)
Destination airport: Brussel-Zaventem Airport (BRU)
60 fatalities / 60 on board
The captain was either incapacitated or absent from his seat, because he had not said anything while the critical situation was developing.

The Romanian transport ministry has released its findings from an investigation into the 1995 crash of a Tarom Airbus 310; the crash had been caused by `an asymmetric thrust of the engines, a possible [medical] incapacity of the pilot to take proper action during the flight and insufficient action taken by the co-pilot.

regi
Posts: 5140
Joined: 02 Sep 2004, 00:00
Location: Bruges

Post by regi »

Dear group, there is also another matter: it is not only Brussels. Just today an article appeared about the increase of landing fares at Bangkok airport. Several large airlines have left BKK already.
But the main topic here was not BKK. It is Asia. I think it is a matter of wait and see what happens with the new low cost carriers such as Orient Thai, Airasia, Valuair, Phuket Air, and also the Indian companies popping up. They compete against each other like hell. And they want to find new possibilities. Let's give them a warm welcome at Zaventem.

User avatar
lumumba
Posts: 2059
Joined: 04 Sep 2003, 00:00
Location: brussels Europe

Post by lumumba »

Pic entre l'Europe et l'Asie

Reste le fait, indéniable, que les transports aériens vont enfin mieux. Les conséquences dommageables de la basse conjoncture s'essoufflent, l'épouvantable «effet 11 septembre» disparaît peu à peu, les craintes liées au SARS sont en bonne voie d'être oubliées. Les données fournies par l'IATA, pour la période janvier-juillet, montrent que le trafic passagers a progressé de 20,1 pc, un extraordinaire rattrapage. Le trafic est désormais supérieur de 10 pc environ à son niveau d'il y a quatre ans. Giovanni Bisignani, directeur général de l'association professionnelle, évoque des pics «formidables», par exemple une progression de 24,6 pc entre l'Europe et l'Asie, du jamais vu.

L'IATA qui rit, l'IATA qui pleure: chaque fois que le prix du baril d'or noir augmente d'un dollar, les coûts d'exploitation de l'ensemble des membres de l'association font un bond en avant d'un milliard de dollars. Dans ces conditions, les financiers peuvent à nouveau craindre le pire et Bisignani parle alors de pires cauchemars. Il omet pourtant de préciser que rares sont les compagnies qui n'ont pas relevé leurs tarifs d'une surcharge «carburant» qui compense au moins en partie un surcoût qui sera peut-être de courte durée.

Regards
Patrice From Le soir
Hasta la victoria siempre.

User avatar
Ozzie1969
Posts: 752
Joined: 03 Sep 2004, 00:00
Location: Brugge, Flanders + Annan, Scotland + Ormoc,Philippines
Contact:

Post by Ozzie1969 »

[ :censored: by admin26567. No personal attacks, please!]

ENGLISH ONLY PLEASE

P.S. Yes, I know I'm coming on a bit strong here, but that's just me! You gotta love me, don't ya? :lol:

User avatar
Avro
Posts: 8856
Joined: 28 Apr 2003, 00:00
Location: Belgium

Post by Avro »

Ozzie1969,

lumumba just quoted an article from Le Soir that's why it's in french.
But indeed he could have posted a small summary in English as well, for all foreign poeple on this site.

Greetz
Chris

User avatar
Ozzie1969
Posts: 752
Joined: 03 Sep 2004, 00:00
Location: Brugge, Flanders + Annan, Scotland + Ormoc,Philippines
Contact:

Post by Ozzie1969 »

Avro wrote:Ozzie1969,

lumumba just quoted an article from Le Soir that's why it's in french.
But indeed he could have posted a small summary in English as well, for all foreign poeple on this site.

Greetz
Chris
Was sagen Sie? :lol:

User avatar
Avro
Posts: 8856
Joined: 28 Apr 2003, 00:00
Location: Belgium

Post by Avro »

Ozzie1969 wrote:
Avro wrote:Ozzie1969,

lumumba just quoted an article from Le Soir that's why it's in french.
But indeed he could have posted a small summary in English as well, for all foreign poeple on this site.

Greetz
Chris
Was sagen Sie? :lol:
Sie haben mich sehr gut verstanden !! ;)

User avatar
Ozzie1969
Posts: 752
Joined: 03 Sep 2004, 00:00
Location: Brugge, Flanders + Annan, Scotland + Ormoc,Philippines
Contact:

Post by Ozzie1969 »

Avro wrote:
Ozzie1969 wrote:
Avro wrote:Ozzie1969,

lumumba just quoted an article from Le Soir that's why it's in french.
But indeed he could have posted a small summary in English as well, for all foreign poeple on this site.

Greetz
Chris
Was sagen Sie? :lol:
Sie haben mich sehr gut verstanden !! ;)
:offtopic: :mrgreen:

Anyway, back on-topic (who started this moaning, anyway?) :

Are there any figures available anywhere about how many flights there are between Belgium and Asia (passenger numbers included). Also, how many Belgians take a plane to Asia from an airport across the border?

User avatar
sn26567
Posts: 40828
Joined: 13 Feb 2003, 00:00
Location: Rosières/Rozieren, Belgium
Contact:

Re: A so-called monopoly to break?

Post by sn26567 »

SN30952 wrote:And btw, flying Tarom in these years was well an indication for the price driven policy. The end of the cooperation coincided with a fatal crash* of a Tarom Airbus.
At some point, there have also been flights by Balkan via Sofia. And don't forget the Sobelair period with direct flights to BKK and HKT, operated in codeshare with Sabena...
André
ex Sabena #26567

Tatay
Posts: 6
Joined: 13 Sep 2004, 00:00

Post by Tatay »

I've never posted something on this site, so this is my first message:

Regarding an asian passenger carrier in Brussels.
I think some of you are forgetting Biman Bangladesh and their stopover in Brussels on their flights to and from New York. Imagine if more airlines did this, Brussels would have a treat! So be thankful just for Biman Bangladesh and their thought for Brussels, and hope that more airlines may use Brussels as a stopover.

User avatar
sn26567
Posts: 40828
Joined: 13 Feb 2003, 00:00
Location: Rosières/Rozieren, Belgium
Contact:

Post by sn26567 »

Welcome to Luchtzak, Tatay.

Most of our members know about Biman Bangladesh, but also about their problems. Brussels need such airlines, of course, but would be more happy with a stronger partner.
André
ex Sabena #26567

Tatay
Posts: 6
Joined: 13 Sep 2004, 00:00

Post by Tatay »

Thank you for your warm welcome.

I have to say I am not too familiar with Biman Bangladesh and I didn't know they were having difficulties.

I did think of something else though:

Delta Air Lines flew from New York JFK to Mumbai, India via Frankfurt.
Today they still operate a New York JFK to Mumbai, India but via Paris.

This may be far-fetched but there are a lot of flights between the UK and India and if American Airlines (OneWorld) wanted to compete with Delta Air Lines (SkyTeam) on the Indian-market they should start a New York JFK to Mumbai, India via Brussels in code-share agreements with SN Brussels Airlines and British Airways. This way, if for example a British Airways flight to India is overbooked (or any other problem), they could always send the passengers from London to Brussels where they would pick up the American Airlines/SN Brussels Airlines/British Airways flight to Mumbai. I think this would provide good competition with Paris and the SkyTeam alliance.

Post Reply