Low cost airlines all scaling back at BRU

[nordikcam]

My points is that you should not solely focus on LF/SOF to determine profitability.

Despite Ryanair arriving in BRU in 2014, SN has been profitable in 2015 and 2016.

Mostly because of historic low fuel prices and some state aid, but don't let me try to convince anyone. What FR did is not hurt SN in the short term, but in the long term; by forcing them into an unsustainable growth.

oh is it the long term now? oh dear... yawn..
and FYI the fuel prices are going up in case you didn't notice it yet. And the state aid. Well guess you have not been reading the 100s of previous messages. Or probably totally ignored like you usually do. It is not if you repeat the same bullshit over and over that it will become truth...
And how do you think that Ryanair can sustain a loss making hub like brussels? By using it profits that they are making in less costly airports and aiports where they get 'advantages'

It will not be St Etienne in a next future for FR and Pegasus...St Etienne airport refuse more low cost flights !

http://www.air-journal.fr/2017-02-13-la ... 77085.html

[OO-ITR]

Mostly because of historic low fuel prices and some state aid, but don't let me try to convince anyone. What FR did is not hurt SN in the short term, but in the long term; by forcing them into an unsustainable growth.

oh is it the long term now? oh dear... yawn..
and FYI the fuel prices are going up in case you didn't notice it yet. And the state aid. Well guess you have not been reading the 100s of previous messages. Or probably totally ignored like you usually do. It is not if you repeat the same bullshit over and over that it will become truth...
And how do you think that Ryanair can sustain a loss making hub like brussels? By using it profits that they are making in less costly airports and aiports where they get 'advantages'

It will not be St Etienne in a next future for FR and Pegasus...St Etienne airport refuse more low cost flights !

http://www.air-journal.fr/2017-02-13-la ... 77085.html

Yes of course. It started when Ryanair decided to fly to major airports. Why should give regional airports give financial and operational incentives to low cost companies if those start flying to neighbouring bigger airports that are closer to bigger cities? It makes sense that a passenger will prefer flying to these major airports and leaving the regional airports for what it is...

[sean1982]

My points is that you should not solely focus on LF/SOF to determine profitability.

Despite Ryanair arriving in BRU in 2014, SN has been profitable in 2015 and 2016.

Mostly because of historic low fuel prices and some state aid, but don't let me try to convince anyone. What FR did is not hurt SN in the short term, but in the long term; by forcing them into an unsustainable growth.

oh is it the long term now? oh dear... yawn..
and FYI the fuel prices are going up in case you didn't notice it yet. And the state aid. Well guess you have not been reading the 100s of previous messages. Or probably totally ignored like you usually do. It is not if you repeat the same bullshit over and over that it will become truth...
And how do you think that Ryanair can sustain a loss making hub like brussels? By using it profits that they are making in less costly airports and aiports where they get 'advantages'

The question who is repeating bullshit to make it come true? If I see how my current employer reacts to a 0,5% drop in loadfactor which is in the mid 80's, I would be very cautious of a 69% loadfactor. Thinking that that is sustainable with 25€ tickets at rising fuel costs (which dont matter much now until that hedging time comes again) is like believing in santa Claus

[Stij]

No, the bottom line will only reveal the real figure the year after the expansion stops. A good example is the recent sale of Omega Pharma.

I beg to disagree, I believe, according to Belgian accounting rules, the invoiced turnover of services to be delivered in the years to follow, should be booked on "493X Turnover to be forwarded" by reducing "7X turnover", thereby reducing your income and profit.

So in reality, it's just you bankaccount that looks good as the 493X increases the debts on the passive side.

If accounting rules are different for airliners, please advise me.

On Omega Pharma... Growth form the past is no indication about growth for the future + Manufacturing companies can create an inventory that's on the actove side... always beware of that one.

Stij

[Stij]

And here we go again ...

Ansett is right!

Keep it cool!

Stij

[Acid-drop]

What the hell happened to this topic ?

[sean1982]

simple

says who? you???

its in the long term now? oh dear... yawn..

. Or probably totally ignored like you usually do. It is not if you repeat the same bullshit over and over that it will become truth...

[Yuqu12]

My points is that you should not solely focus on LF/SOF to determine profitability.

Despite Ryanair arriving in BRU in 2014, SN has been profitable in 2015 and 2016.

Mostly because of historic low fuel prices and some state aid, but don't let me try to convince anyone. What FR did is not hurt SN in the short term, but in the long term; by forcing them into an unsustainable growth.

Yes, FR will really hurt SN on long terms... They are now part of one of the biggest airline groupes in Europa and backed up by LH which will help them to become stronger at BRU (which is already happening given the fact that SN its market share on BRU is growing and growing).

[travellover]

Mostly because of historic low fuel prices and some state aid, but don't let me try to convince anyone. What FR did is not hurt SN in the short term, but in the long term; by forcing them into an unsustainable growth.

Fuel prices concern any airline.

[jan_olieslagers]

They will more affect an airline whose fuel cost is 40% of total cost than one which has fuel contribute for 25% to its total cost.
(not sure if those 25 and 40 are realistic figures, but the idea should be clear).

[Passenger]

The reason why Ryanair has to give in, is because their incentives as new airline at BRU are almost over. The unavoidable and high fixed costs at BRU (like Departure Tax and Security tax) make it impossible to continue to sell very cheap. Ryanair will now have to increase their rates, and this will decrease the price difference with Brussels Airlines' lowest fare (35-39). Thus less passenger for FR, thus less seats offer.

Other legacy carriers should copy/paste Brussels Airlines flight against Ryanair: offer the same cheap basic fare for competing routes.

Regarding the reduced offer from Vueling at Brussels: they were the scandal of summer 2016. Flights were cancelled due to lack of aircraft and/or lack of crew. So less flights offered will hopefully lead to less flights cancelled.

[flymd11]

Brussels Airlines is doing so well the LCCs just can't keep up. Yes, everyone copy Brussels Airlines....
(in how long does Brussels Airlines become Wings?)

[Passenger]

(in how long does Brussels Airlines become Wings?)

The take over was established long before Ryanair announced its presence at BRU.

[flymd11]

The take over was established long before Ryanair announced its presence at BRU.

The takeover of SN by LH, not the integration of SN into the Eurowings group.

[OO-ITR]

If I see how my current employer reacts to a 0,5% drop in loadfactor which is in the mid 80's, I would be very cautious of a 69% loadfactor.

Seems to me that your heart is still with your previous employer instead of your new employer. But I can understand your approach. God knows what will happen after Brexit !

And by the way, this thread is about the low cost airlines scaling back in BRU. If you feel like ventilating your never ending fear/criticism about the (low) load factor with SN, you can do it in the concerned topic...

[sean1982]

If I see how my current employer reacts to a 0,5% drop in loadfactor which is in the mid 80's, I would be very cautious of a 69% loadfactor.

Seems to me that your heart is still with your previous employer instead of your new employer. But I can understand your approach. God knows what will happen after Brexit !

And by the way, this thread is about the low cost airlines scaling back in BRU. If you feel like ventilating your never ending fear/criticism about the (low) load factor with SN, you can do it in the concerned topic...

If you can't say anything substantial, I would also refrain from personal comments, which is your (and some others) preferred tactic to close down a topic you dont like very quickly. I didn't say anything of topic nor personal, My heart is very much with my current employer by the way, navigating through picket lines for a few weeks now, thanks god OUR loadfactors seem to be on the up again thanks!

Edited by moderator

[Stij]

OK, as from now, all off-topic posts will be deleted...

[brusselsairlinesfan]

Hi all,
In order to come back to the topic, is someone able to summarize the so-called LCC scale-back @ BRU there? With figures such as airlines, destinations and frequencies year to year? An interesting thing would be to compare them with the brussels airlines and others legacy carriers ones on the same destinations ...

[travellover]

They will more affect an airline whose fuel cost is 40% of total cost than one which has fuel contribute for 25% to its total cost.
(not sure if those 25 and 40 are realistic figures, but the idea should be clear).

Indeed. Surely the current SN, in it's size and business model, is more impacted than a bigger player by the fuel cost. If most airlines can more or less benefit from a low fuel context, it would be interesting to read some figures.

[travellover]

They will more affect an airline whose fuel cost is 40% of total cost than one which has fuel contribute for 25% to its total cost.
(not sure if those 25 and 40 are realistic figures, but the idea should be clear).

Indeed. Surely the current SN, in it's size and business model, is more impacted than a bigger player by the fuel cost. If most airlines can more or less benefit from a low fuel context, it would be interesting if someone has some figures to share.