Again the pilots,SABENA was enough!!!!!!

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Avro
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Post by Avro »

olympus wrote: I know that's another subject but did you know that because of an article on that subject (the coffin) cabin crew was not allowed to distribute la derniere heure. Talking about going back to the middle ages (or 50years ago). People are only allowed to read the good news shows from sn and not the truth (and I missed my newspaper that day dammit ;-).
I know what you're talking about ;)

waldova
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Post by waldova »

Well, excuse me to all the people that felt attacked by my response. But first of all, flight crews at Ryanair are not the best paid in the Industry. Secondly, I don't see a SN cabin crew cleaning their own planes while at Ryanair those people have to do this by themselves.

I also now a couple of pilots that are even good friends of mine. I can tell you they are enjoying their life at all times. And if you say the workload is really high, then sorry but I can't agree with that.
Ofcourse I don't deny that in case of an emergency the worlkload and stress factor is really high, but in a regular flight it is not.

Also maybe SN pilots don't get paid as much as they did with Sabena, but understand this, the pilots of Sabena where the best paid in Europe. They received huge salaries wich were just rediculous.
Secondly to those pilots who think that people in factorys working in shifts get paid more, well sorry but that is being really hypocrit. I don't think that an SN pilot has a salery of about 1600 Euro netto (what people get paid at BGS). They are getting better paid than this and also have better working hours then this.

If the pilots also want to get SN to get in the red numbers then go ahead and ask for more. At the end it will be your job, not mine. Also if you say that Virgin pilots get paid more then I can tell you this, Virgin Express is losing money this year.

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sn26567
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Post by sn26567 »

olympus wrote:Did you know that because of an article on that subject (the coffin) cabin crew was not allowed to distribute la derniere heure.
But the readers of Luchtzak know everything about it: https://www.aviation24.be/postt5992.html

P.S. The crew of Luchtzak wants to keep a strict neutrality in this discussion: we shall not intervene!
André
ex Sabena #26567

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tolipanebas
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Post by tolipanebas »

Waldova, can you please shut up, because you are making a fool of yourself!

First of all: pilots at SABENA were not paid rediculously high salaries as you claim, they were paid avarage wages, similar to those used at most European carriers back then.

At the regional carrier of SABENA (i.e. DAT) wages were aready a big chunk less than at the major and wages now at SN are even around 30 to 40 percent below those of DAT!

1,600 euro net? I guess F/Os at SN would be glad with that my friend! You really have no clue, so unless you have some FACTS to tell rather then self invented stories about suntaned pilots going on holidays all the time with sexy stewardesses and getting paid 4000 euro or so a month, it might be better just to back off from this discussion.

If you want to see the salaries, go and get 'La Dernieure Heure' from a few weeks back. There was a 'good news show' article on the new entry co-pilots (SN is very eager to bring these motivated guys in the spotlights), yet the journalist also wrote a small article about wages and working methods at SN... Botom line was and I quote: a MISERY when compared to salaries paid at other airlines.

waldova
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Post by waldova »

tolipanebas wrote: 1,600 euro net? I guess F/Os at SN would be glad with that my friend! You really have no clue, so unless you have some FACTS to tell rather then self invented stories about suntaned pilots going on holidays all the time with sexy stewardesses and getting paid 4000 euro or so a month, it might be better just to back off from this discussion.
Did I say anything about sexy stewardess, I don't think so. And did I say something about 4000 euro a month? No, so please don't turn my words into something I didn't say.

And sorry for those who work for SN, but pilots at Iberworld get paid 5000 Euro net a month with their appartment paid by the company and the car too. So if pilots of SN are really looking for a better pay check, go abroad. Their are enough companies looking for pilots!

And please if you say that SN pilots don't get paid well. Tell to everybody some numbers. That would clarify some things for everybody.

Thank you,

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blackhawk
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Post by blackhawk »

Tell to everybody some numbers
To the pilots: please don't give inside information.

An older topic about this matter: https://www.aviation24.be/postlite4783-pilots.html (it seems some posts have been deleted ...)

olympus
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Post by olympus »

I believe there has been a discussion about the working conditions a few months ago where someone told the numbers.
I don't have the exact numbers so I can't give them for the co-pilots sorry.

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sn26567
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Post by sn26567 »

blackhawk wrote:An older topic about this matter: https://www.aviation24.be/postlite4783-pilots.html (it seems some posts have been deleted ...)
This was indeed the place to find some backgropund.

If posts have been deleted, it is not by the admins. Everyone has the right to delete his/her own posts.
André
ex Sabena #26567

Fiero

Post by Fiero »

first of al dear pilots, you guys should know that DAT is a bad company if you look at your bank account at the end of the month.
everybody is complaining but to have a strike is to much of a good thing isn't it?
I know the wokrload is to high. But what about cabin crews and engineers? They almost work for free. With the same work load. So I think if you guys would get an increase in salary everybody should deserve one.
Been so nice and calm as possible so pls keep the reactions on the same level

waldova
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Post by waldova »

tolipanebas wrote:Waldova, can you please shut up, because you are making a fool of yourself!
Did I offence you in any way? So please remain nice to me!
self invented stories about suntaned pilots going on holidays all the time with sexy stewardesses and getting paid 4000 euro or so a month, it might be better just to back off from this discussion.
My stories are first of all not invented. My best friend happens to be a pilot with Iberworld. Also, another good friends dad used to be a 747 pilot. So before think twice next time before insulting me of inventing stories. I know some things about this subject!

Thank you!

:stop:

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sn26567
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Post by sn26567 »

Hey, guys, could you all please cool down! I said before that I would not intervene in this discussion, that is unless some of you go too far.

Please remain polite under all circumstances. This is a discussion forum, not a boxing ring.
Last edited by sn26567 on 30 Aug 2004, 16:15, edited 1 time in total.
André
ex Sabena #26567

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tolipanebas
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Post by tolipanebas »

indeed sn26567, I would openly like to offer my apologies to waldova or anybody else here if I offended them personally, it certainly was not my aim.

It is just that he has written 2 posts which have really shocked me because of his combined ignorance and resolve in this matter.

Ignorance because he overestimated the earnings of pilots in this company ('I don't think that an SN pilot has a salery of about 1600 Euro netto'), yet deemed himself knowledgable enough to comment on how really well paid SN pilots are. (assuming wrongfully they get paid more then their counterparts at VEX).

He also feels he can comment on the workload at SN, judging from stories he has of a friend of him flying at another airline and dismisses all other reports.

Well, anyway, I leave it to the reader of this forum to judge who is right and who is wrong.

As a sidenote:
Nobody ever took the word STRIKE to mouth; there are many other ways to show your dislike at a company which is so proud of its high punctuality....

TCAS_climb
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Post by TCAS_climb »

Workload: you never know how hard a job can be if you haven't experienced it. Fatigue on long-haul sectors is different from fatigue on short-haul sectors, so I'm particularly amused in reading comparisons and assumptions about who's the wreck at the end of the day: the guy sitting all day in a seat at FL350 or the guy drilling holes in the street.


Salary: the tip of the iceberg is visible here: PPJN.com. Remember, this is only the tip.

waldova
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Post by waldova »

Ok, I accept the apology.
Ok, about VEX pilot paid more as SN pilots or oppisite, I can say that I only heard this information from other people. If this is wrong, well sorry then.
But I can say I don't have ignorance of this matter!

But about the workload, you have to admit that if a flight goes like planned the workload is not high during most part of the flight, nl the cruise. Well maybe it is really high during landing and take-off and pre flight planning that I can understand. But during a regular cruise it is low. Only ofcourse in a emergency I don't deny that the workload is extremely high. They have to remain calm while a normal person would be panicking. I look up to that.

I apologys too, to anybody I might have offended.

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Sabena_690
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Post by Sabena_690 »

Glad to see all the apologies, keep it civil now please...

Just like André, I will be neutral over here.

The only thing I want to mention is a small observation: I see that the salary of IWD-pilots is compared with the one of SN pilots.

Do not forget that:
- IWD is a charter airline with a flighttime on most flights above 1h30-2h
- most pilots of SN are put on short regional flights with a flighttime of 40 minutes-1h30 minutes.

This means that SN-pilots normally fly more sectors than IWD-pilots, and every sector needs preparations etc.

Just an observation, correct me if I'm wrong...

Frederic

waldova
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Post by waldova »

Yes, than the workload of the SN pilot will be more than that of a IWD pilot. I mentioned that also in my last post that the workload is the highest on flight preparation, take-off and landing.

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lumumba
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Post by lumumba »

Hi everybodt.
To Mr tolipanebas is this a way of blackmailing?
I just wanna support the post of Fiero it,s important to involve evrybody in the same company.
Regards
Patrice
Hasta la victoria siempre.

LX-LGX
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Post by LX-LGX »

Let us please not forget that 11th September changed our world. More and more expensive Business Class travel is being replaced by online video conferences, and short haul business flights are replaced by other transport (TGV, Eurostar).

Except for a very few, low cost carriers haven't found their way into BRU yet. This could become the biggest competition for SNBA, and it will happen on very short notice. Schiphol likes them: www.reiskrant.nl today announces they're going to construct G-pier (next to the H-pier) just for LCC!

So please keep in mind: it's going good with SNBA, but competion remains severe and one day of strike means farewell to the three years of hard working. And don't tell me "who said something about a strike ?": SNBA already lost quite some clients last week, only because of these rumours.

I haven't seen the business plan from SNBA, but I assume it respected some basic business principles: you make losses the first three years because you have to get a market share. Four and five are break even and to recover the losses, and from year six, you will make profit.

Let us therefore choose for the long and soft way to improve our situation.

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lumumba
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Post by lumumba »

Hi everybody.
And here we go Anita Van hoof said that action is possible!!!!!!!
This makes me crazy just like LX-LGX just explaind there are already some effects.
Don,t forget that SNBA is undercapitalized.
regards
Patrice
Hasta la victoria siempre.

Fiero

Post by Fiero »

It's sad to hear that the word strike is falling.
But I have to admit something has to change.
Every employee is frustrated , upset or mad for something. But there is still some "love" left for the company ! But everything has its limits. But I think a strike isn't the solution. If we would strike the onlhy result would be that within a couple of months everybody can look for another job. And instead of being seperate teams we would beter pull on the same rope. And prove that we are a family! And i think we are smart enough to find another solution than having a strike !

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