Again the pilots,SABENA was enough!!!!!!

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lumumba
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Again the pilots,SABENA was enough!!!!!!

Post by lumumba »

Hi everybody.
The pilots(of SNBA) are making,one more time some noise here in Belgium.
They want more salary and a beter work condition maybe do go see in a factory what WORK really means!!!
Nondendjos
Patrice

killerwhale65
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Post by killerwhale65 »

are u suggesting pilots do not "work" :?:
Matthias Thoen
MicroWings - Aviation Hobby Store

moons

Post by moons »

If you think they don't work, then you got it wrong sir.
I can understand that working in a factory can be tough, but working in the aviation sector is also tough. Not only for pilots but also for ground personel. Airlines run also 24h a day, so there must be people at any time to serve you. Otherwise you won't be sitting in a plane heading to a sunny state!

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blackhawk
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Post by blackhawk »

This discussion reminds me of the one some months ago concerning the crew of SN. Please be carfull with this topic, because in the other one, some people provided us with some inside information and someone was not very happy with that.

moons

Post by moons »

Oh there was already such a discussion some time ago?
Can't remember it. I don't have to know all the company secrets but I think that this statement wasn't (completely) correct.
My 100th post in service of SNBA!
Isn't that nice? :wink:

greetz

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liebensd
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Post by liebensd »

lumumba,

Can you maybe explain more about what you are writing. Your statement makes a lot of confuse.



Greetz,

Dave

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Zorba
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Post by Zorba »

They want more salary and a beter work condition maybe do go see in a factory what WORK really means!!!
Maybe you should see a cockpit video or try the ATPL course one time and try to find a job, I wish you the best ! How dare you to make such a statement :evil:
Tot hier en verder

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lumumba
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Post by lumumba »

Hi everybody.
The information comes from Le Soir that the pilots become nerveous about their salary.They want more and a beter work condition.
And all I want is that SNBA is flying.
It's too soon for this tipe of discution in this company.First it has to grow and than they will discus about all this problems.
What I also think it's that SNBA is 1 company and if somthing has to change everybody has to be agree(groun to pilot emplayees).
Regards
Pat
Hasta la victoria siempre.

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tolipanebas
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Post by tolipanebas »

Lumumba,

Pilots at SN are indeed not really satisfied with their current working conditions and that's an understatement.

As has been explained here recenty with facts and figures in another post, salary at SN is undoubtedly amongst the poorest in the indrustry, with pay starting at about half what you might expect for somebody flying an A319 for instance.

On the other hand, flight time limitations and rest periods are brought back to about the absolute legal minimums and this on a very regular basis. Exceptions to the minimum legal rest rules which are foreseen for exceptional cases are used on a very regular basis to keep crews flying while they should in fact be long at home taking their legally required minimum rest.

To this 'leasurely life as you tend to think of it when compared to factory workers' you may add the astonishing fact SN pilots are the only pilots in Europe working 10 (!) days in a row before getting their weekend off, a highly fatiguing system wich is already long forbidden by JAR rules as should be changed as soon as they come into effect in Belgium. (Not suprisingly SN opposes the introduction of these new more stringent rules in Belgium).

Does it take you more more to see where the anxiety comes from?

SN is no longer establishing itself, we are 3 years down the road for God's sake, I think we can say it is time to swich off the panic button and return to normal flight conditions, don' t you think?

Maybe you should put your binoculars down and stop thinking as an airline spotter who wants to see SN planes flying all day all around the world so you can take nice pictures, and look at it like any normal person would do, because your view towards SN is very biased to say the least. I recon a football fan would sound about the same when talking about his favorite team.

The pilots are there not in the first place to fly those planes for your esthetical pleasure nor to restore the pride we all once had in Sabena, they are there to earn a living just like anybody else who works for their money while in the same time guarantee safe flight operations. Seems they feel this is put under pressure for too long now.

SN30952
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Everybody complains....

Post by SN30952 »

And airlines want to cut in labour cost...

Pilots account for in excess of 35 per cent of Air Jamaica's total salary and employee benefit costs.
An Air Jamaica Captain with 10 years service, for instance, is paid US$235,000 per year working a maximum of 85 hours monthly.
Air Jamaica compared that to a Northwestern airline pilot of the same rank earning US$215,000 per year for the same number of hours and a Continental pilot earning US$182,233 per annum, while an American Airlines pilot earned US$145,554 for the year doing the same hours.
"This puts Air Jamaica pilots in the top-earning league of international pilots," the Air Jamaica management said, adding that Delta Airlines, which pays a 10-year Captain US$250,000 with overtime, was the only major carrier that pays its pilots marginally better than Air Jamaica.

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Comet
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Post by Comet »

Pilots should not be expected to work over-long and crap hours! I know what it is like to work a 15 day stretch without one day off in between, and it is sh*tty to say the least! I certainly wouldn't have wanted to think that I was in charge of a plane load of passengers! Pilots should not be expected to fly aircraft when they are fatigued to such an extent, because then it endangers hell of alot of people, including themselves!
Sabena and Sobelair - gone but never forgotten.
Louise

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lumumba
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Post by lumumba »

Hi everybody.
Hi comet you are making a point with the hours of flying and the rest problem.But not with the salary like Jan just explaind they can move.Or if everybody in SN is agree than yes somthing has to change(But EVERYBODY).
Regards
Patrice
Hasta la victoria siempre.

waldova
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Post by waldova »

Come on, you are not going to tell me that the workload for a pilot is high. One of my best friends is also a pilot with Iberworld. When I hear his stories about flying I really have the idea that pilots have a marvelous life. So for all the pilots, please admit that you have a great job.

Also why should they complain? They are getting a really high salery already for what they do. They should look at pilots working for Virgin Express and Ryanair. They are paid really bad in accordance to any other pilot in Belgium. But do you hear them complain? No, because these pilots are happy to have a job. So please pilots of SN stop complaining and be happy that you have a job because many others don't have a job.

Ofcourse I will not deny that in case of emergency the worlkoad is really high, but if everything goes according to plan the workload for a pilot is not that high. Even with all the sofisticated computers the workload is even reduced. That is what we engineers aim for, to reduce pilot workload.
And in a factory the workload is a lot higher than the workload of a pilot. Every pilot denying this should really go work in a factory once. They will be exhausted after a day of work there. So pilots, just admit you have a wonderfull job and you are getting paid really good for this job!!

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tolipanebas
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Post by tolipanebas »

just for your information, but salaries at VEX are about 30 to 50% HIGHER then those at SN.... so far for your educated reply.

olympus
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Post by olympus »

Actually I have worked in a factory and a lot of other high work intensity jobs and frankly they don't compare to the fatigue going around in the DAT crewroom.
So all the deskjockeys out there who think they have a tough job try those jobs out yourself or follow us during our 10 days. And by the way, a factory worker doing shifts is earning as much or more than most of the copilots in this company.
Why should everybody get a salary increase if the pilots get one? did you lose 30% of your income (and that's not counting some of the other things we lost)? Maybe we'll switch roles for the next 2 years, you give in 30% and we get our salaries back, is that a deal? I didn't think so, so get off the high ground and stop being hypocritical.

And to the engineer saying pilots don't work because everything is so safe now: tell that to the people on board the airbus over the ocean with no fuel left who landed safely or the passengers on the swiss avro who lost 2 engines in a few seconds (just to remind you that we fly avro's too).
Pilots get paid for the moment something goes wrong and if that never happens that's all the better but if you just happen to be on the flight where it does, you'd better have a motivated crew who knows what they're doing.

And at DAT we have very good crews who are looking all over the world to get the hell out of here. Wait untill the job market opens up again (and believe me when I say that time is approaching rapidly). And I'm not talking 1 or 2, even the instructors are leaving the ship. I just hope our management knows how to get the ship floating again, but if i listen to the people who have to deal with them I'm not so hopefull.

So if you don't know anything about the subject or are just envious then just back out of the discussion.

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lumumba
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Post by lumumba »

Hi everybody.
Hi tolipanes if it's true lets see whats gooing to happens when VEX and SN will be one?
Regards
Patrice
Hasta la victoria siempre.

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sn26567
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Post by sn26567 »

waldova wrote:They should look at pilots working for Virgin Express and Ryanair.
For Virgin Express, you know already the answer. With regard to Ryanair, the flight crews are among the best paid in the industry.
André
ex Sabena #26567

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Avro
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Post by Avro »

I don't want to take part in this discussion, but I just want to remind you that all jobs can be very hard (physically or not). And that all those jobs at the airport are very important in some way.

Chris

olympus
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Post by olympus »

indeed Avro,
pilots make the planes fly but without mechanics we're not allowed to get those planes of the ground and withouth gate handlers there would be no passengers on bourd or without the bagagistes those people wouldn't have anything to wear at their destination. (or the coffin with the remains of their loved ones would not arrive)

I know that's another subject but did you know that because of an article on that subject (the coffin) cabin crew was not allowed to distribute la derniere heure. Talking about going back to the middle ages (or 50years ago). People are only allowed to read the good news shows from sn and not the truth (and I missed my newspaper that day dammit ;-).

Back to subjet. Every job is important but some are supposed to get better paid than others because of the responsabilities and dangers, and that's just how it's supposed to be.

Thank you.

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