Brussels region noise regulation

[sean1982]

Stop saying walloons are involved ! Its simply not true.

So CdH and MR are what? It's the same as saying that the NVA and VLD politicians in Brussels aren't flemish

[jan_olieslagers]

Again, I regret having to go politics. Limiting that as much as I can, and certainly refusing to name parties, the least that can be said is that Wallonia can never loose on the current dispute. I am even fully willing to accept they didn't ask for it.

Still, every customer less at BRU is a potential customer more for Liège or Charleroi. The present loss goes to Frankfurt and Schiphol, but the next leavers might well go elsewhere.

[AIRMARSHAL]

A lot of headwind for Brussels Airport 2040 project...and as they showed on the evening news this is mainly thanks to not even a handfull of "politicians" from a still moderate sized European town.

[Acid-drop]

If BRU can reinvent itself because of that its only positive then...
And if not, be happy if the traffic can stay in the country (although I doubt it very much)
A richer wallonia means a richer flanders and a richer belgium.

[sn26567]

A lot of headwind for Brussels Airport 2040 project...and as they showed on the evening news this is mainly thanks to not even a handfull of "politicians" from a still moderate sized European town.

Our homepage has published the information hereunder, which should do a lot to appease the spirits:

https://www.aviation24.be/airports/brussel ... s-airport/

Jan Grauls is a seasoned diplomat who has worked as Belgian ambassador to the UN (that helps). He is able to put everybody around a table to find a consensus in which all parties gain something, lose something else and are finally satisfied (except for a few extremists). But at the 2040 horizon...

[FLYAIR10]

If there's no hope for a political solution, we should just "invent" some nuisance taxations for Brussels ourselves. Maybe a compensation-tax for every passenger originating from Brussels.

And what about the waste-water coming from Brussels through the Zenne these days? Is this clean now? is it in line with the EU-norms on river-pollution? If not,extra taxes should be imposed on 'RégionBruxelles-capitale'.

[Didymus]

Again, very touchy political discussion, which we want to avoid at all costs.

Wait a minute...
How do you want this discussion not to be political? Aviation is politics. Airports are created and disappear mostly due to political decision taking, not Darwinian selection.

[Yuqu12]

I have an idea about how Brussels Airport can try to solve this itself: the went to the Raad van State a couple of weeks ago to get rid of this regulation, but the case was inadmissible because they didn't have an importance for this case. Why don't they try it again? Now they have the importance (2 companies leaving, 3.500 jobs at risk) and they can try to get rid of the regulation.

[Inquirer]

Does anybody know when that 'aviation law' is finally going to be drafted?
Such should solve the issue for once and for all.
Is seems the federal government (or at least the minister in charge of it) is dragging his feet?
I agree with others that it is getting extremely urgent: our country is not exactly in a position to snub investments and/or ditch hundreds/thousands of blue collar jobs over some political profiling by regional politicians, I would think?

[sean1982]

This whole thing is hanging like a sword of Damocles. When I was still at FR they had frequent infringements with the OLD limits under certain weather conditions. This was despite using full runway length, highest engine de-rate possible and the departure flown completely in accordance with published procedures. Sometimes delaying the early right turn of 25R for even a very short time will result in an infringement and the fines are astronomical, in many cases far exceeding the profit the flight would make.

FR has courtcases pending, so have all belgian airlines, but these zero tolerance rules will in fact paralyse BRU to an astronomical level.

[Yuqu12]

Does anybody know when that 'aviation law' is finally going to be drafted?
Such should solve the issue for once and for all.
Is seems the federal government (or at least the minister in charge of it) is dragging his feet?
I agree with others that it is getting extremely urgent: our country is not exactly in a position to snub investments and/or ditch hundreds/thousands of blue collar jobs over some political profiling by regional politicians, I would think?

If the situation wasn't that complicated, there would have been a law. Fact is that Galant did receive some persons with interests when she wanted to start working on it. So far, Bellot hasn't made a single step yet.

[korvo]

And what about the waste-water coming from Brussels through the Zenne these days? Is this clean now? is it in line with the EU-norms on river-pollution? If not,extra taxes should be imposed on 'RégionBruxelles-capitale'.

Excellent idea!

[Passenger]

Caution! Here we touch a very delicate political issue. Hence, let's avoid putting the blame to one or the other and rather look for solutions.

It's hard to not blame politicians, when they cause the problem. So let's recap.

The noise regulations installed by the Brussels Capital Region a few years ago are very severe. However, they (= Brussels Government) had implemented a tolerance margin. On (or around) 29th November 2016, the Brussels Government has announced that this tolerance margin will no longer be applied as from 01st January 2017.

The Flemish Governement then launched a cool down period via the "alarmbelprocedure" / sonnette d'alarme", as described in the Belgian Constitution (art. 54). This freezes the decision from the Brussels Capital Region for 60 days, and at the same orders all stakeholders to negociate the matter. However, Didier Gosuin, which is a prominent political leader of the Brussels Capital Region, already said to Flemish tv VRT that there is nothing to negociate about.

Although the new severe noise restrictions have a 60 days delay, Saudia Cargo and Yangtze River announced that they don't trust it and therefore will move to FRA and/or AMS.

The only way out, without further escalation, is a new Vliegwet / Aviation Law, to be imposed by the federal government, stating how aircraft must take off and land at Belgian airports. But so far, François Bellot (federal minister for this matter) doesn't seems to go ahead with that new law.

I expect another legal action from the Flemish Government when the Brussels Government indeed starts penalizing airlines that follow Belgocontrol instructions for take offs and landings.

See also:
http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/polit ... =1.2833851

[Yuqu12]

Didn't they impose this tax after the terror attacks when the airport was not fully operational again?

[pijaleu]

I'm kind of surprised there are not more reactions on the real outcome or solutions if the noise restrictions would be implemented.

No single B747 freighter any more on our beloved tarmac.
Cargo volumes dropping enormously, and peoples work, and so lives, at stake.

There might be a chance for other airlines to grow, airlines with airplanes that are more silent.
Qatar Cargo, Ethiad Cargo, Ethiopean Cargo and maybe others use the A330 or B777.
Can they fill the gap Saudia and Singapore might leave when they move?
Is there some airline trying to serve the African market, as Magma is doing right now?


Can cargo planes use runway 19 more often in order to avoid Brussels? Or is this runway too short?
Who has some more solutions, rather than shooting the politicians, who are for sure responsable for this mess.

All ideas are welcome.

Thanks,
Pijaleu

[flightlover]

I'm kind of surprised there are not more reactions on the real outcome or solutions if the noise restrictions would be implemented.

No single B747 freighter any more on our beloved tarmac.
Cargo volumes dropping enormously, and peoples work, and so lives, at stake.

There might be a chance for other airlines to grow, airlines with airplanes that are more silent.
Qatar Cargo, Ethiad Cargo, Ethiopean Cargo and maybe others use the A330 or B777.
Can they fill the gap Saudia and Singapore might leave when they move?
Is there some airline trying to serve the African market, as Magma is doing right now?


Can cargo planes use runway 19 more often in order to avoid Brussels? Or is this runway too short?
Who has some more solutions, rather than shooting the politicians, who are for sure responsable for this mess.

All ideas are welcome.

Thanks,
Pijaleu

The B747 is the only plane taking extreme long loads (over 17m is no exception) that touches down at BRU in a regular fashion. This also happens to be the heaviest cargo. It also takes 20 to 50 tons more payload than any other type. So no B747 will have a higher impact in cargo tonnage than it represents in percentage of flights.
For the same reason, and even worse (but not for me), if the same tonnage would find it's way to the airport by plane there would be an increase in the number of flights.

All in all you could say: they've bitten in the sand with Ethiopian Airlines favouring BRU over MST and LGG because DHL wants them to fly there. Now they hope to catch a few lost B747 frequencies by prohibiting BRU to receive this type. But once more they will see how little attractive their offer is. Or are they also hoping to make DHL move to LGG?

[Acid-drop]

The 777f is pretty much the future of the 747f anyway... many companies did the swap already.
Just like flanders forcing electric cars, this is only the logical next step.

[brabel]

BRU airport put an advertisement in some newspapers with 5 facts on it:
1) 3,000 people from Brussels and 14,600 Flemish people work at the airport
2) The people who are affected by noise dropped by 50% since 2000
3) BRU isn't the only airport close to a big city
4) Moving freight would be economical and social suicide
5) There should be a federal law.

They do this because they feel like there have been some lies about BRU.

http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/binnenland/1.2846328
http://www.bruzz.be/nl/node/142251

[RoMax]

It's also mentionned on the BRU2040 website, I can only advise to everyone in favour of stability and certainty for the airport, the tens of thousands of people that rely on the airport for their jobs and Belgium as a whole, to share this and express the need to finally establish a federal aviation act (Vliegwet)!

https://www.brusselsairport2040.be/en/n ... ls-airport

[StijnBRU]

Think we underestimate the consequences of this new restriction by the brussels government. not only the cargo carriers will be highly effected, most of the pax carriers will also feel the pain.

I can guarantee that all carriers flying 747 will leave BRU within a week when this becomes reality. So OZ and SQ gone, not to LGG or OST but straight into AMS, an airport that can think commercially. Very painfull to admit, but its a fact.

Next to follow is every pax carrier operating with old A330 aircrafts, so SN, HU, EY will suffer a major blow. The A330 of SN are so old, so old means a lot of noice. Same for the older 777-200, operated by United...

I will personally make a smelly dump inside the mailbox of this brussels minister, as ones again Brussels shows such an arrogance towards one of the most important economic motors in this country. The region has to be put to a hold, and even better, get rid of it. When will Belgium finally have a plan for its national airport... its beyond Kafka.