Brussels region noise regulation

[sn26567]

Not wanting to be political here, but it is, to say the least, stupid to give too many competencies to regions in a country as big a postage stamp... (and it should be remembered that the Brussels regional government is as Flemish as francophone!)

Draw your own conclusions! This will be my first and last comment.

[Didymus]

That's a gross misrepresentation of the Brussels political reality imho. Both language groups have indeed 2 ministers in the Brussels government (but 2 NL versus 3 FR deputy ministers). However the Brussels parliament does not have a 50/50 distribution at all; only 17 out of 89 (19%) MPs are Flemish. After all, it's the parliament that supervises the government, not the other way around.

[Acid-drop]

we underestimate the consequences of this new restriction by the brussels government.

To be correct, the norms are 16 years old already.
Everybody had plenty of time and nobody can be surprised.

(Just facts here, no judgement)

and it should be remembered that the Brussels regional government is as Flemish as francophone!

Indeed, everybody knew.

[jan_olieslagers]

Hm, you mean there are as many French speakers as Dutch speakers? Yes, I think I heard so. However a Brussels Dutch speaker is NOT Flemish, mind you! I have known several who staunchly refused to be so called.

Nen Brusseleir is eerst en d'abord et surtout nen Brusseleir!

[Stij]

Aren't there certain types that can fly legally over Brussels? Narrow bodies such as A320's?

If so, can't we just send everything over Brussels city center that's legal (the vast majority) and only let all the big ones (the vast minority) over Flanders?

Cheers,

Stij

[Acid-drop]

Reminder : they should decide that from the wind, not from the dialect spoken by the cows under it

[Acid-drop]

BRU airport put an advertisement in some newspapers with 5 facts on it:
1) 3,000 people from Brussels and 14,600 Flemish people work at the airport
2) The people who are affected by noise dropped by 50% since 2000
3) BRU isn't the only airport close to a big city
4) Moving freight would be economical and social suicide
5) There should be a federal law.

They do this because they feel like there have been some lies about BRU.

http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/binnenland/1.2846328
http://www.bruzz.be/nl/node/142251

http://www.rtbf.be/info/regions/bruxell ... id=9486968

[Jetter]

I can guarantee that all carriers flying 747 will leave BRU within a week when this becomes reality. So OZ and SQ gone, not to LGG or OST but straight into AMS, an airport that can think commercially. Very painfull to admit, but its a fact.

I do think cargo traffic moving to LGG is what the French speaking politicians have in mind when imposing restrictions on BRU. There is no guarantee that this is what will happen of course, but it wouldn't be the first time politicians come up with a measure that doesn't have the intended results.

[flightlover]

BRU airport put an advertisement in some newspapers with 5 facts on it:
1) 3,000 people from Brussels and 14,600 Flemish people work at the airport
2) The people who are affected by noise dropped by 50% since 2000
3) BRU isn't the only airport close to a big city
4) Moving freight would be economical and social suicide
5) There should be a federal law.

They do this because they feel like there have been some lies about BRU.

http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/binnenland/1.2846328
http://www.bruzz.be/nl/node/142251

http://www.rtbf.be/info/regions/bruxell ... id=9486968

Just one striking quote from the last link:
The 3000 employees living in Brussels that work at the airport, badly paid, represent less than 10% of the wages paid at the airport.

Are they envies?
Even when these jobs are indeed all low grade, shouldn't they be happy they at least have a job. Not saying that they are all, but even when most of them are lower grade than average there is no reason to minimise the importance of providing jobs to (lesser educated*) people. *(Isn't that one of the most problematic target groups for the Brussels area?)

Mind you, I'm not saying lower grade workers should be happy with any job. It has to be possible to build a future for yourself while working and should provide decent working conditions.

[Acid-drop]

I can guarantee that all carriers flying 747 will leave BRU within a week when this becomes reality. So OZ and SQ gone, not to LGG or OST but straight into AMS, an airport that can think commercially. Very painfull to admit, but its a fact.

I do think cargo traffic moving to LGG is what the French speaking politicians have in mind when imposing restrictions on BRU. There is no guarantee that this is what will happen of course, but it wouldn't be the first time politicians come up with a measure that doesn't have the intended results.

That is a fantasy.
Its the only the "last resort" explanation found by extremist people who believe everything is about the language in belgium, despite all evidence showing LGG was not, is not and will not gain anything in this story.

Its a bit like saying, we close the e40, of course all trucks will use the secondary road next to it. Well, no. They will simply use another main highway.

[brabel]

Some neighbours of BRU are going to court because BRU airport put the earlier mentioned advertisement in the newspaper. They say it is a lie and it's fake news.

http://www.bruzz.be/nl/actua/omwonenden ... ls-airport

Tha saga continues..........

[pijaleu]

Hey,

Just read the reply of the neigbours of Brussels Airport.
Couldn't disagree more with them.
Moving cargoplanes to regional airports? It's clear they have no idea about cargo activities at all. Besides, Brussels is an economic center, and even the majority of "Flemish" companies are located closer to BRU then to OST, and LGG of course if even further away.

3000 poorly paid jobs for Brussels inhabitants is of no importance. Please tell this face to face to those 3000 motivated workers. Please tell that their jobs, and maybe their person is of no interest for Brussels and its economy. You can send them all to inemployment, but do not complain you will have to pay more taxes to pay their inemployment.

And I'm not willing to go "communautair" but the website of "bruairlibre" is 100% french speaking, cause if you click on the Dutch language, it's not the same as in french and all titles remain french.
By the way, who are this people anyway? Would like to know what jobs they do and where they live and since when.

Oh, I hate this kind of discussions.
You can not have any airport in Belgium without some noise for those living close.
But some do have to complain about anything. Maybe if the planes are gone, they can complain about birds singing in the morning, or a dog barking in the far distance.

Hope everyone is willing to find a decent solution for everyone. A win-win situation.
I rest my case here.

Merry X-mass.
Pijaleu

[Passenger]

The "defenders" should use other arguments then just those 3.000 Brussels-based employees working at the airport. They should focus on indirect jobs, not only through airport activities but also tourism-related.

What will Brussels be without overseas tourists coming to the city via Brussels Airport? Far less business for the hotels, the restaurants, the bars, the shops. That's not 3.000 Brussels jobs at stake: that's 30.000

And without a decent international airport, Brussels will have just a few conventions and congresses, compared to the hundreds they have now.

[Acid-drop]

By the way, who are this people anyway?

NIMBY's. It's that simple. They care about their own good and no about what may or may not happen 25km away.

but the website of "bruairlibre" is 100% french speaking

I think you're right. There are only 5% Flemish in Brussels, so it's not that surprising.
(And quite a big part of the Vlaams Brabant is also not flemish)

You can not have any airport in Belgium without some noise for those living close.

Well ... Brussels airport itself admitted there is a problem, and that's why they have big plans for the future.
And by fixing that, they may be able to turn a problem into an asset and grow even further. Don't forget nothing ever moves in Belgium. Any problem is an opportunity to force a change. Without the noise prob, no BRU2040.

That's not 3.000 Brussels jobs at stake: that's 30.000

Let's not over react. There is a big chance all 747 will be replaced by 777, there is a chance that all noisy pax aircraft will be replaced also.
In fact, there is a big chance there'll not be a single job loss ever.

[FLYAIR10]

Talking about the 747, is the 747-8 as 'noisy' as the 747-400/300/200?
In other words would an airline operating the 747-8 from BRU also have to pay extra penalties because of the more strict application of the Brussels noise regulations?
I would expect the 747-8 having more quiet engines and a smaller noise footprint,no?
Just wondering..(maybe already discussed here on this forum,but I didn't notice it)

[DIBO]

The 747-8 has a 30 percent smaller noise footprint than the 747-400.

[gumblebee]

Brussels does indeed need a business airport not too far away. However, for cargo flights, what does it matter where packages arrive exactly? In a densely populated area some compromises are necessary. The same applies to flights for holiday destinations. People from Brussels will happily travel a bit further to depart on holiday if it means quieter mornings and evenings.

High unemployment in the Brussels Region is not due to a lack of economic activity, but to a lack of middle class inhabitants willing to live amid said activity. Above all, Brussels needs a better quality of life for it's inhabitants. The presence of the airport so nearby is not a benefit for Brussels, quite the opposite.

[flightlover]

High unemployment in the Brussels Region is not due to a lack of economic activity, but to a lack of middle class inhabitants willing to live amid said activity. Above all, Brussels needs a better quality of life for it's inhabitants. The presence of the airport so nearby is not a benefit for Brussels, quite the opposite.

I can imagine there are some other reasons for that...

[sean1982]

Brussels does indeed need a business airport not too far away. However, for cargo flights, what does it matter where packages arrive exactly? In a densely populated area some compromises are necessary. The same applies to flights for holiday destinations. People from Brussels will happily travel a bit further to depart on holiday if it means quieter mornings and evenings.

High unemployment in the Brussels Region is not due to a lack of economic activity, but to a lack of middle class inhabitants willing to live amid said activity. Above all, Brussels needs a better quality of life for it's inhabitants. The presence of the airport so nearby is not a benefit for Brussels, quite the opposite.

Hahaha, that's the best joke ever Sure, BRU is the pinnacle of why Brussels isn't a nice place to live

[BRU]

NL: http://www.tijd.be/ondernemen/luchtvaar ... 0-3085.art
FR: http://www.lecho.be/entreprises/aviatio ... 8-3017.art

A few facts:
- lots of traffic was already lost in BRU due to noise restrictions and limitations
- most traffic moved outside Belgium
- those airlines still operating have a reason to be in Brussels. With all restrictions in place it is no fun to stay in BRU. So making a deal to move them to regional airports as some action groups suggest is no solution. Otherwise they would already have done so themselves.
- airlines do not buy other aircraft just to serve BRU. It is easier to move to another airport.
- especially not if they operate an aircraft such as the B747F that can fly to almost any airport in the Western world
- all flights being affected with the new restrictions are day flights!!! As the B747F can not fly at BRU already a long time during the night. Most flights depart between 10 and 13h and 16 and 21h00.
- we are talking of an everage of 3 to 4 flights per day

It looks to me that the price of so many jobs we are going to pay is huge and only part of a political game between the regions. And once again the image of BRU and Belgium in the rest of the world as a place where doing business is not easy is confirmed... Sad...