Brussels region noise regulation

[Acid-drop]

airlines do not buy other aircraft just to serve BRU. It is easier to move to another airport.

Common... its easier to find quiet aircraft than noisy ones nowadays... it will not be hard at all for the airlines.

Only a few airlines can't provide alternatives.
Yangtze is one of them, too bad. (but remember they already transfered a few flights to AMS months ago)
Saudia has 777f, no excuses. (saudia was already reducing a lot its operations even before the noise measures)

=> until now there is no evidence any airline will suffer.

It looks to me that the price of so many jobs we are going to pay is huge and only part of a political game between the regions.

The only game I see is playing calimero.
For every problem, some politics can't do anything else than pointing to a single direction, adding fuel to the fire of hate and contempt.

Dont forget NIMBY's can vote. Many NIMBY's = many votes. Politics like votes. It's that simple.
Brussels is managed like a village. It was a very stupid idea to give them the power of a region, but thats another story.

[sn26567]

An extended English text of the interview of Arnaud Feist on the noise regulation is available on the main page of Luchtzak.be : https://www.aviation24.be/airports/brussel ... gulations/

[BRU]

airlines do not buy other aircraft just to serve BRU. It is easier to move to another airport.

Common... its easier to find quiet aircraft than noisy ones nowadays... it will not be hard at all for the airlines.

Only a few airlines can't provide alternatives.
Yangtze is one of them, too bad. (but remember they already transfered a few flights to AMS months ago)
Saudia has 777f, no excuses. (saudia was already reducing a lot its operations even before the noise measures)

=> until now there is no evidence any airline will suffer.

- it is not because you can find them, you buy them. There are other economics behind that decision. And younfor sure are not buying it because there is a small country in Europe where there is an airport you can. O longer operate too. Plenty of choice if you know that for cargo airlines the market and destination is Western Europe and not just BRU

- Yangtze moved some of its flights to AMS in July and Aug due to C-checks on their aircraft, having just one flight a week in BRU was not cost efficient and thus logic to operate this one flight temporarely from AMS. Was also anounced by them as such

- Noise restrictions started already much earlier and became really an issue as of 2007. That is when SV started reducing their ops at BRU. Due to the noise problems they were facing. They are using their 777F on certain routes that makes sense to them. So for example, if they fly to Africa for the flowers, they go to AMS and do not come to BRU. Aircraft are not just toys you put anywhere.

- It also shows that once you scare away an airline due to regulatory restrictions, this is a process you can not change again overnight. So even if SV could fly with 777F to BRU, they don't. And it has a reason and is called image, reputation and unstable legal framework. Plenty of choice to go to other airports and serve the same market and have even more forwarders present.

Politics are not helping the aviation industry. Look at the Ethiopian saga earlier this year. And why is QR moving (big) part of its operation from LGG to LUX? Because Belgian governement is still discussing for far too long the bilateral agreement and additional rights...

[Tompompier]

Brussels does indeed need a business airport not too far away. However, for cargo flights, what does it matter where packages arrive exactly? In a densely populated area some compromises are necessary. The same applies to flights for holiday destinations. People from Brussels will happily travel a bit further to depart on holiday if it means quieter mornings and evenings.

High unemployment in the Brussels Region is not due to a lack of economic activity, but to a lack of middle class inhabitants willing to live amid said activity. Above all, Brussels needs a better quality of life for it's inhabitants. The presence of the airport so nearby is not a benefit for Brussels, quite the opposite.

Oh boy... NIMBY's are even amongs us on luchtzak

About the noise... I live 30 km's away from the airport... and yes, I have noise from airplanes too, day and night,but also from trains, the highway E40, agricultural equipment... noise is just everywhere, no reason to complain for me.
People want to live in the capital of the country? Very good, but then you have to be able to cope with noise, criminality, bad air quality and all the other negative and positive things living in a city brings.

If you can't cope with all these facts, then you have to go live deeply in the Ardennes, far away from everything, deep in the woods, where the only thing that can bother you is the animals living there.

And that Brussels government: just a bunch of stupid idiots, not willing to know what's happening in the real world.

Yes, I'm angry, very angry. Politicians are playing with a lot of jobs, also my job.

Merry X-mas and a happy new year to all of you, and those living in the city: fireworks will be ignited at new years eve, so it will cause noise, a lot of noise, so: ENJOY!

Tompompier

[sn26567]

The zero tolerance of the Brussels region, which should have started on 1 January 2017, is postponed at least until 21 February because of the conflict of interest procedure initiated by the Flanders region.

[FLYAIR10]

he 747-8 has a 30 percent smaller noise footprint than the 747-400.

And is the 747-8 also considered to be more quiet than the 747-400/300/200 in absolute terms?

If yes, and considering the smaller noiseprint,is the 747-8 still an option to be operated within the possible 'new' noise limits ? or even with max TO weight restrictions?(requiring less thrust?)

[BRU]

747-8F is a lot more quite than the 747-400F. Would be no problem to still operate this at full MTOW and stay below limits of Brussels Regions. However, current customer base has no such aircraft in fleet or is not willing to use them on the the smaller market of BRU (compared to AMS or FRA). Also total number flying around is much below that of the -400F.

[Acid-drop]

Some neighbours of BRU are going to court because BRU airport put the earlier mentioned advertisement in the newspaper. They say it is a lie and it's fake news.

http://www.bruzz.be/nl/actua/omwonenden ... ls-airport

Tha saga continues..........

And there are indeed some fake news from BRU.

Summary : Saudia has no intention to leave BRU, they are surprised BRU is lying about it:
http://www.lalibre.be/economie/libre-en ... 17d55ad523

Well done...
Anyone could have clues this is not the only lie...
Apparently there is no proof that Yangtze or Singapore would leave either.

[Passenger]

"...Je ne prévois, dans un futur proche et avec des conditions commerciales normales, aucun changement à l'horaire prévu..." We'll see what Saudia will do once their actual "conditions commerciales normales" become abnormal = when Saudia will recieve its first "penalty from the Brussels Capital Region for violation of our noise regulations".

[ostair]

Can't understand this one.
Where is the Flemish press/media?

[Acid-drop]

I'm not sure there is any...
I think this is lalibre/DH work

[Passenger]

Anyone could have clues this is not the only lie...
Apparently there is no proof that Yangtze or Singapore would leave either.

Sure. Just like with Jet Airways. They also never announced they would switch BRU for AMS because of the weekly strikes in Belgium and/or at Brussels Airport. But they really have left.
Same will happen here: as soon as the Brussels noise fines are sent out, they're gone. They have to, for economical reasons.

[pijaleu]

Same will happen here: as soon as the Brussels noise fines are sent out, they're gone. They have to, for economical reasons /quote]

As much as they have to stay for economical reasons.
They are doing quit good on the Belgian market.
I guess it will all depent on how high the fares are.
Be aware trucking cargo to lets say FRA or AMS isn't for free you know.
And nobody is willing to give up the pharma-industry.
Let's wait and see...

[nordikcam]

Some neighbours of BRU are going to court because BRU airport put the earlier mentioned advertisement in the newspaper. They say it is a lie and it's fake news.

http://www.bruzz.be/nl/actua/omwonenden ... ls-airport

Tha saga continues..........

And there are indeed some fake news from BRU.

Summary : Saudia has no intention to leave BRU, they are surprised BRU is lying about it:
http://www.lalibre.be/economie/libre-en ... 17d55ad523

Well done...
Anyone could have clues this is not the only lie...
Apparently there is no proof that Yangtze or Singapore would leave either.

Hummm not so clear > SAUDIA CARGO puts pressure on Brussels.
The Government of Brussels I suppose...

http://www.lalibre.be/economie/libre-en ... 7f88eebccd

[teach]

Sure. Just like with Jet Airways. They also never announced they would switch BRU for AMS because of the weekly strikes in Belgium and/or at Brussels Airport. But they really have left.

WHere are you getting the idea that that's why they left?

[Yuqu12]

Jet Airways left especially because of economic reasons: Brussels wasn't very profitable for Jet Airways and AMS is a skyteam-hub. Jet Airways has more and better connections on an airport which is also Skyteam, more than they had on Brussels as a star alliance hub.

[Stij]

A small question:

Is the whole discussion about 1 type of aircraft? B744?

Cheers,

Stij

[Yuqu12]

A small question:

Is the whole discussion about 1 type of aircraft? B744?

Cheers,

Stij

No, if I'm not mistaken almost every plane will be too noisy at some point of the day...

[Established02]

Is the whole discussion about 1 type of aircraft? B744?

How is DHL dealing with this issue, considering that they have a daily Kalitta 744 departing around 22u00?

[Hue]

Is the whole discussion about 1 type of aircraft? B744?

No. Some B737's are observed requesting full runway length from runway 25R as a standard operating procedure. Climbing out initially with 4000ft per minute to reach 1700ft ASAP, allowing them to turn left early and avoiding Brussels. Initially this was done between 6-7AM local time. These days it's nearly 24/7.