Air Belgium: a rebirth?

[sn26567]

http://kbopub.economie.fgov.be/kbopub-m ... ?back=true

Hmmm! A capital of 200,000 EUR doesn't seem a lot to start an airline. Not enough to buy an aircraft, which means that it will be leased. But the presence of Niki Terzakis on the board is probably a good sign.

Let's hope these guys know what they are doing.

[Nevihta]

Nikki Terzakis already hired a lot of ex-TNT staff..
He sure knows about the business so...
He must have some funds because many people already work for him, and there's still no turnover.

[sn26567]

Official documents published in the Moniteur Belge/Belgisch Staatsblad:

Creation of the company 21/2/2016: http://www.ejustice.just.fgov.be/tsv_pd ... 304080.pdf
Change of directors 16/5/2016: http://www.ejustice.just.fgov.be/tsv_pd ... 067020.pdf
Change of seat of the company 13/7/2016: http://www.ejustice.just.fgov.be/tsv_pd ... 098397.pdf

[crew1990]

If it is a passenger airlines, I really wonder where they will fly with a 777 from Brussels without a proper European network, even Brussels Airlines doesn't have such big aircraft.

Unless it will maybe be an charter airlines like Euro Atlantic, Hifly etc, and this is true, it's missing in belgium

[Flanker2]

Who is this Niki Terzakis and what were his achievements?
Ok, he was TAY CEO for a bit, but other than that, what makes this good news?

The B777 is not the ideal aircraft for stand-alone charter operations, it has too high capital costs.
A feeding network is needed no matter what kind of operations they go for involving B777's.

No matter what, good luck to them.
There are plenty of opportunities out there, so I hope that they do take the plunge, and into the right niche.

Hmmm! A capital of 200,000 EUR doesn't seem a lot to start an airline. Not enough to buy an aircraft, which means that it will be leased. But the presence of Niki Terzakis on the board is probably a good sign.

Let's hope these guys know what they are doing.

200k is not enough to lease a B777. Lessors are banks, and they won't lend money nor property without a decent amount of collateral. 200K doesn't even cover a week worth of lease, so it's a non-starter even for leasing. I doubt that you could get a lease on a Caravan with that kind of money.

They are probably still raising funds. For that, they need a running team so that they have something to base the fundraising on. Raising funds to start an airline is tough. Those eager to invest in an airline will not have enough funds, while those who do have enough funds, will avoid airlines at all cost.

Most airline start-ups fail at the fundraising stage, so don't hold your breath.

[Passenger]

Official documents published in the Moniteur Belge/Belgisch Staatsblad:

Creation of the company 21/2/2016: http://www.ejustice.just.fgov.be/tsv_pd ... 304080.pdf
Change of directors 16/5/2016:
http://www.ejustice.just.fgov.be/tsv_pd ... 067020.pdf
Change of seat of the company 13/7/2016: http://www.ejustice.just.fgov.be/tsv_pd ... 098397.pdf

Agree, 200.000 € isn't that much for an airline. But allow me to remind this post from 24th June:

The domain name AirBelgium.com today belongs to Aviation Investment Holding, register-address Rue Douffet 21, 4020 Liège, email-at-skywind-avia.com
http://www.whois.com/whois/airbelgium.com

Aviation Investment Holding sa/nv (= Avia Invest):
http://www.ejustice.just.fgov.be/tsv_pd ... 311569.pdf

Me thinks that 5.000.000 € (of which 1.250.000 € has been deposited into the company's bank account on 27th May 2016) is enough to think Air Belgium is going to be more then just a virtual airline.

[stickshaker]

Who is this Niki Terzakis and what were his achievements?
Ok, he was TAY CEO for a bit, but other than that, what makes this good news?

200k is not enough to lease a B777. Lessors are banks, and they won't lend money nor property without a decent amount of collateral. 200K doesn't even cover a week worth of lease, so it's a non-starter even for leasing. I doubt that you could get a lease on a Caravan with that kind of money.

They are probably still raising funds. For that, they need a running team so that they have something to base the fundraising on. Raising funds to start an airline is tough. Those eager to invest in an airline will not have enough funds, while those who do have enough funds, will avoid airlines at all cost.

Most airline start-ups fail at the fundraising stage, so don't hold your breath.

As an aviation enthusiast I met recently people who know Niky Terzakis and I have had the opportunity to talk with them about this Air Belgium project.

Here is what they said :

"Niky Terzakis is seen as a visionary entrepreneur and a charismatic leader with a deep knowledge of the Aviation industry the and an huge address book from every area. It is a trusted person respected by his peers who made TNT Airways / Express a Liege based success story which participated to the required change of industrial pole profile in the eastern part of Wallonia.

Funds will definitely be required to start an Airline with such ambitions but be reassured that he is the right person to make it happen."

In short ... Investors and employees will follow because the guy is known as trustworthy, innovative and competent

I think any initiative to increase the dynamism of aviation industry in Belgium is more than welcome.

It sounds to me that those 200.000€ is the minimum legal amount of money required to be declared to register such a kind of activity and has nothing to do with the available amount of money for the upcoming operations.

[Passenger]

Who is this Niki Terzakis and what were his achievements? Ok, he was TAY CEO for a bit, but other than that, what makes this good news?

Strange. Though mr google is your only source, it seems that you've missed this obvious link:
https://be.linkedin.com/in/niky-terzakis-bba1385

[Acid-drop]

The B777 is not the ideal aircraft for stand-alone charter operations, it has too high capital costs.
A feeding network is needed no matter what kind of operations they go for involving B777's.

What's wrong with having 7 round trip per week to china to bring even more chineese tourists than last year ?
That's my best bet.

No need to create anything when you can improve the idea of last year

777 = lots of pax and lots of cargo together... what other aircraft would do a better job ?

[Boavida]

Can an airline survive with 1 B777? Can we even speak of an 'airline' with 1 aircraft?

[Flanker2]

What's wrong with having 7 round trip per week to china to bring even more chineese tourists than last year ?

One big thing: too low yields.

[sean1982]

Who is this Niki Terzakis and what were his achievements? Ok, he was TAY CEO for a bit, but other than that, what makes this good news?

Strange. Though mr google is your only source, it seems that you've missed this obvious link:
https://be.linkedin.com/in/niky-terzakis-bba1385

Says mr Google

A re-birth of air Belgium would be fabulous. When I was 8 years old my parents took me to Mallorca on an AB Boeing 737. It was there and then that my love and fascination for airplanes was born and what ultimatly motivated me to start my career

[Acid-drop]

What's wrong with having 7 round trip per week to china to bring even more chineese tourists than last year ?

One big thing: too low yields.

Hifly is ok with it no ?
And if you add a bit more cargo ?

[Flanker2]

The Chinese tourists that we see a lot of are very budget-tight tour groups.
They don't spend money locally and for food they even go to supermarkets.
They buy some luxury goods for resale in China with mark-up.
They stay at the cheapest hotels and fly with the cheapest airlines.

Airlines can afford to use a part of the capacity to accept these low-yield tourists. They fill the aircraft.
However those airlines get higher yields from O&D, higher yield individuals and SME travel, business class.

Even if configured with 500 seats, a B77W filled with Chinese tourists flying daily, at best can break-even with cargo. That's the best case scenario without considering seasonality.

Hifly is in the business of doing mainly ACMI leases, and as additional business the charters using low capital cost A340's that they can park and use a couple of times a week. As a charter operator, they will probably just quote prices based on spot requirements with single travel agencies or airlines for single trips, leaving the risk of filling the aircraft completely to them. I doubt though that they have regular schedules, let alone cargo revenues.

Short-term ACMI only work out with low capital cost aircraft.
Long-term ACMI seldom work out, and when they do usually the additional cost is covered by someone else than the airline who contracts it, a third party who compensates for it. For instance, Norwegian is leasing one of the Hifly's longer term based on compensation paid by Boeing for late B787 deliveries. This way, the added cost of ACMI can easily be compensated as it can be quantified, compared to cancelling route and speculating how much of a loss that represents. It also holds much better in court.

[Acid-drop]

Seems Terzakis is working on a new long haul airline. Are already talking to SQ to lease a former B777 aircraft. Seems to be linked to the Chinese charter flights operating at LGG.

I heard they already have offices next to Louvain-la-Neuve, business linked with Liege, Terzakis and long haul...

Could you guys double check your source again ?
I get now info that they want to operate from BRU.

Could be nobody knows really and everybody is speculating just like we do...

[stickshaker]

Indeed it is from Bruxelles it was written on the website where I got the picture of the livery

[Passenger]

The Chinese tourists that we see a lot of are very budget-tight tour groups. They don't spend money locally and for food they even go to supermarkets. They buy some luxury goods for resale in China with mark-up. They stay at the cheapest hotels and fly with the cheapest airlines.

Yet another proof that you really know nothing about aviation and travel. Maybe you have spotted a Chinese tourist in your local Aldi? Fact is that the Chinese tourists mainly travel on group tours to Europe, that their tours are quite expensive because they travel a lot (3-6 European countries in 8-15 days) and thus stay at hotels in touristic centres, and that they are excellent spenders. And because of the language problem, most meals are included in their tour price. Thus no need for them to go on a food-shopping adventure. On top, they have a very busy tour program and very often arrive quite late at their hotel.

Airlines can afford to use a part of the capacity to accept these low-yield tourists. They fill the aircraft. However those airlines get higher yields from O&D, higher yield individuals and SME travel, business class.

Few months ago, we've explained you what yield management was. Seems we still have to explain you the difference between yield, revenue, yield management, negociated rates, allotments, ...

Hifly is in the business of doing mainly ACMI leases, and as additional business the charters using low capital cost A340's that they can park and use a couple of times a week. As a charter operator, they will probably just quote prices based on spot requirements with single travel agencies or airlines for single trips, leaving the risk of filling the aircraft completely to them. I doubt though that they have regular schedules, let alone cargo revenues.

This is very funny. Member acid-drop made a small typo error ifly -> Hifly, and because you are unaware of the success of these Chinese charters at LGG (Utour & I-fly), you start to write nonsense about Hifly. "Low capital cost A340's used a couple times a week". Really? So this weeks' schedule of their 2 A340's is probably an exception?
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/cs-tqy
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/cs-tqz

Hi Fly and I-fly. got it?
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/ei-fbu

[a380bigbeast]

Indeed it is from Bruxelles it was written on the website where I got the picture of the livery

Well, according to ch-aviation, Air Belgium is based in Liège. Would they operate from BRU anyway?

[stickshaker]

Indeed it is from Bruxelles it was written on the website where I got the picture of the livery

Well, according to ch-aviation, Air Belgium is based in Liège. Would they operate from BRU anyway?

Well it depends what you call "being based"....

If being based means Airline HQ then look for It in official publication it is near Louvain la neuve.

If being based means where their crew report for duty and where their aircrafts take off and land then they are still based nowhere as it seems they don't have crew nor aircrafts yet. This is why this project gets a lot of hype amongst current TNT employees. They know something is cooking with their former CEO as chef... It has also been announced that the international cargo will be transferred from Liege to Paris and probably flown by USA Flight crew and aircraft leaving experienced Ops employees and crew available for new opportunities. "Great match for commercial partnership"

[Acid-drop]

International, you mean outside europe ?
Leaving 777 and 747 pilots on the side ?