Brussels Airlines introduces Economy Plus on longhaul flights

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DeltaWiskey
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Brussels Airlines introduces Economy Plus on longhaul flights

Post by DeltaWiskey »

As of today, you can purchase an Economy Plus upgrade for your economy seat on longhaul flights.

You can find all details on: https://www.brusselsairlines.com/en-be/ ... fault.aspx

By the end of July, all A330's should be configured with this new product and at the same time, the economy seat headrest will also get a slight redesign for increased comfort.

Until 15 september, the upgrade can be purchased for €99 instead of €120.

sean1982
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Re: Brussels Airlines introduces Economy Plus on longhaul flights

Post by sean1982 »

Is it the same seat with 8 more cm or a different seat?

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines introduces Economy Plus on longhaul flights

Post by sn26567 »

I have the feeling that the seat is different. since it can recline twice more. But apparently the width remains the same. Most other airlines provide a wider seat in Y+.
André
ex Sabena #26567

Stij
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Re: Brussels Airlines introduces Economy Plus on longhaul flights

Post by Stij »

sn26567 wrote:I have the feeling that the seat is different. since it can recline twice more. But apparently the width remains the same. Most other airlines provide a wider seat in Y+.
But charge you way more than 120€!

Cheers,

Stij

Stij
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Re: Brussels Airlines introduces Economy Plus on longhaul flights

Post by Stij »

Good news the headrest will be modified: it was pretty lousy.

I wonder if that horizontal "bar" problem I experienced will be solved as well...

Cheers,

Stij

Inquirer
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Re: Brussels Airlines introduces Economy Plus on longhaul flights

Post by Inquirer »

Stij wrote:
sn26567 wrote:I have the feeling that the seat is different. since it can recline twice more. But apparently the width remains the same. Most other airlines provide a wider seat in Y+.
But charge you way more than 120€!

Cheers,

Stij
The trick with this is to fill it with upgrades from regular economy, rather than downgrades from business, so I think they can better keep the economy product as a starting point for this rather than a sobered business class product.
Just give extra leg space and better/more food etc.; in the end, that's what people flying economy will miss most and be willing to pay extra for, IMHO.
Going by the rate at which it is offered, I think they will indeed do just that too, btw?

Is this part of them copying their very successful commercial strategy from their European routes to intercontinental flights too now, in preparation of more growth there too then, like some people here have hinted at before?

sean1982
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Re: Brussels Airlines introduces Economy Plus on longhaul flights

Post by sean1982 »

Most airlines who offer Y+ on long haul give a wider seat and a seperate cabin. What's the point of giving 8 more cm if the guy in front of you can recline double. Its going to feel just as cramped and you wont be able to see your IFE properly anymore. So basically its 120€ for a glass of champagne and a better meal? :/

Inquirer
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Re: Brussels Airlines introduces Economy Plus on longhaul flights

Post by Inquirer »

I flew with Jetairfly to my holiday destination in the Caribbean last year and booked economy club+ to get something like 10 extra cms legroom since I am a tall person and I am very pleased that I did!

This new economy plus is something very similar, so it seems?
If it is, then it's an affordable way to a more comfortable flight for those economy passengers willing to spend a little bit of money on something as basic as more legroom: nothing wrong with that concept, I should say?

I know it's something you have always had a difficult time understanding: people flying economy, yet at the same time willing to pay more than the lowest possible fare. Those people are by definition not stupid or insane, you know? They may have a very good reason not to go for the lowest fare, yet without willing to pay for all the stuf the premium classes automatically go with.
sean1982 wrote:Most airlines who offer Y+ on long haul give a wider seat and a seperate cabin. What's the point the point of giving 8 more cm if the guy in front of you can recline double?
Euh... just how would a wider seat help you get more legroom, if I may ask?

Correct me if I am wrong, but the seats on my Jetairfly flight looked exactly the same as those in regular economy, just that they were further apart, and I did appreciate that very much!

Passenger
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Re: Brussels Airlines introduces Economy Plus on longhaul flights

Post by Passenger »

Most airlines who offer Y+ on long haul give a wider seat and a seperate cabin. What's the point of giving 8 more cm if the guy in front of you can recline double. Its going to feel just as cramped and you wont be able to see your IFE properly anymore. So basically its 120€ for a glass of champagne and a better meal?
It's not "basically 120 € for a glass of champagne and a better meal". That's a comment we could expect from someone working for a competitor airline, which happens to be the case here...

It's additional 8cm legroom + double the seat recline + a seat at the front of the Economy cabin + a personal amenity kit + a better quality headset + an Economy Plus fleece blanket + a hot towel after take-off + a glass of Laurent-Perrier champagne before the meal + an upgraded dining experience + a complimentary bottle of water + Neuhaus chocolate gift box.
https://www.brusselsairlines.com/en-be/ ... fault.aspx

I have flown a lot on long haul, in Business Class and in Economy, and it doens't matter that "the guy in front of you can recline double". As long as he doens't do so during meal service, it's fine. And even if he would do so, the advantage of 8cm more leg room remains.

There is a large clientele in leisure travel who finds the Business Class fares too expensive. This Economy+ offer will surely please them.

sean1982
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Re: Brussels Airlines introduces Economy Plus on longhaul flights

Post by sean1982 »

Passenger wrote:
Most airlines who offer Y+ on long haul give a wider seat and a seperate cabin. What's the point of giving 8 more cm if the guy in front of you can recline double. Its going to feel just as cramped and you wont be able to see your IFE properly anymore. So basically its 120€ for a glass of champagne and a better meal?
It's not "basically 120 € for a glass of champagne and a better meal". That's a comment we could expect from someone working for a competitor airline, which happens to be the case here...

It's additional 8cm legroom + double the seat recline + a seat at the front of the Economy cabin + a personal amenity kit + a better quality headset + an Economy Plus fleece blanket + a hot towel after take-off + a glass of Laurent-Perrier champagne before the meal + an upgraded dining experience + a complimentary bottle of water + Neuhaus chocolate gift box.
https://www.brusselsairlines.com/en-be/ ... fault.aspx

I have flown a lot on long haul, in Business Class and in Economy, and it doens't matter that "the guy in front of you can recline double". As long as he doens't do so during meal service, it's fine. And even if he would do so, the advantage of 8cm more leg room remains.

There is a large clientele in leisure travel who finds the Business Class fares too expensive. This Economy+ offer will surely please them.
You are gonna keep repeating that mantra? :D I do work for the another airline but it has no direct competition with SN whatsoever :) WIth 8 cm and a double recline you gain absolutely nothing and forget about watching a movie during the flight then :) great to have a better headphone if you have to twist yourself in corners to see the screen. The seat is not wider, nor is it seperated from the Y cabin.

Allright so, the hot towel really makes the 120EUR worth its money. And what is an Y+ blanket? Is it thicker than a Y blanket? Or are there no blankets in Y? :roll:

Stij
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Re: Brussels Airlines introduces Economy Plus on longhaul flights

Post by Stij »

Sean, don't forget you can recline the double as well... so the 8cm remains...

My 2 cents? I'll be more than happy to pay for 8cm on top of SN's already very generous seat pitch for a night flight.

To compare to BA or AF: their economy plus costs most of the times 50% more than economy, OK, the seats are wider, but it's a completely different budget, SN's offer is more an add on sale just as FR's emergency exit rows..

sean1982
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Re: Brussels Airlines introduces Economy Plus on longhaul flights

Post by sean1982 »

allright. when looking at it in that way I agree. But its not really Y+ then. Its "our best economy seats" which is perfectly fine.

RTM
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Re: Brussels Airlines introduces Economy Plus on longhaul flights

Post by RTM »

sean1982 wrote: You are gonna keep repeating that mantra? :D I do work for the another airline but it has no direct competition with SN whatsoever :) WIth 8 cm and a double recline you gain absolutely nothing and forget about watching a movie during the flight then :) great to have a better headphone if you have to twist yourself in corners to see the screen. The seat is not wider, nor is it seperated from the Y cabin.

Allright so, the hot towel really makes the 120EUR worth its money. And what is an Y+ blanket? Is it thicker than a Y blanket? Or are there no blankets in Y? :roll:
Have you actually been on a SN A330...? What are you judging...? 8cm is a big deal if you are tall. As is the extra recline. As for the movie watching comment... Well, it answers my first question... If you would have been on a SN A330, you would know the screen tilts...

sean1982
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Re: Brussels Airlines introduces Economy Plus on longhaul flights

Post by sean1982 »

Ryanair for example just gave 4cm extra on all of its new configured aircraft by putting in new seats. It doesnt warrant it calling it Y+. I think the product is being called premium without it being really premium.

And to answer your question, yes I have been on an SN A330 but the tilt is not sufficiënt with a double recline if you dont want to recline yourself.

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Re: Brussels Airlines introduces Economy Plus on longhaul flights

Post by Passenger »

sean1982 wrote:allright. when looking at it in that way I agree. But its not really Y+ then. Its "our best economy seats" which is perfectly fine.
It is more then "our best economy seats". It's additional 8cm legroom + double the seat recline + a seat at the front of the Economy cabin + a personal amenity kit + a better quality headset + an Economy Plus fleece blanket + a hot towel after take-off + a glass of Laurent-Perrier champagne before the meal + an upgraded dining experience + a complimentary bottle of water + Neuhaus chocolate gift box.
sean1982 wrote:You are gonna keep repeating that mantra? I do work for the another airline but it has no direct competition with SN whatsoever.
Both Ryanair and British Airways are severe competition airlines for Brussels Airlines. And on this forum, sir, you are about the only one who has the strange need to constantly bash the competition from your employer. You did so when you were working for Ryanair, and sadly enough it seems you are going to do so also whilst you work for British Airways. Your latest example: "the hot towel really makes the 120EUR worth its money. And what is an Y+ blanket? Is it thicker than a Y blanket? Or are there no blankets in Y?"

- - -

Back on topic: if one looks at the amount of the surcharge, Brussels Airlines Economy Plus has to be compared to KLM Economy Comfort (surcharge 90€ to 150€), and not to British Airways Premium Economy (example BA World Traveller Plus). British Airways Premium Economy is indeed a lot better, but the surcharge is double in price.

British Airways - Premium Economy:
http://www.britishairways.com/en-gb/inf ... eller-plus
KLM - Economy Comfort:
https://www.klm.com/travel/nl_en/campai ... /index.htm

By the way: also KLM and BA use "a greater recline" as an advantage:
KLM: "And the seat reclines up to twice as far"
BA: "A wider seat with greater recline, lumbar support, head rest and foot rest"

Inquirer
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Re: Brussels Airlines introduces Economy Plus on longhaul flights

Post by Inquirer »

Stij wrote:I'll be more than happy to pay for 8cm on top of SN's already very generous seat pitch for a night flight.
So would I.
It's exactly what I did on my jetair flight to the Caribbean!
Being tall, I was very lucky I did pay extra to fly in their economy class with more legroom: those few extra centimeters of legroom were definitely worth the extra money to me.
sean1982 wrote:But its not really Y+ then. Its "our best economy seats" which is perfectly fine
Yet are they selling their best economy seats (at the exits etc) from their current layout or have they created a separate segment in their planes where they have made the legroom deliberately bigger?
It seems to be the latter, so then why shouldn't they be allowed to call that dedicated compartiment their 'economy plus'?
It's still very much 'economy' (nothing premium about it), albeit a better one, hence the 'plus'.

There's no definition to my knowledge of what an economy plus must have for it to be called that way, just as there's no definition of what a business class must include: several major airlines would be in big trouble if it would, as they don't offer nearly as much comfort and service as you get on the Brussels C class.
It has been mentioned in the past, but the fact they don't have F on board, really makes their C class the very best of the whole Lufthansa cluster, so really, it's just what you want to call it.

In my view, it's a further step in their successful drive to address the need for product segmentation by ordinary customers.
The days of all people flying on economy being perfectly happy with a general 'one fits all', ever cheaper yet ever more basic economy product are over.
Even the strongest of advocates of this approach have now given in to reality long understood by others.
People increasingly want to decide for themselves if the standard legroom which has become rather limited due to pricing pressure really is sufficient for them, upgrade to a better quality meal than the basic one offered again out of price consciousness by the airline, enjoy more attention and service on board than can only be offered for the base fare etc, and clearly they don't mind paying some extra for it either, all without having to go into business class.

In short: some people want the OLD economy standards back and don't mind paying the old prices for that (through the basic fare + the add on).
Last edited by Inquirer on 16 Jun 2016, 17:18, edited 1 time in total.

brabel
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Re: Brussels Airlines introduces Economy Plus on longhaul flights

Post by brabel »

Back on topic: if one looks at the amount of the surcharge, Brussels Airlines Economy Plus has to be compared to KLM Economy Comfort (surcharge 90€ to 150€), and not to British Airways Premium Economy (example BA World Traveller Plus). British Airways Premium Economy is indeed a lot better, but the surcharge is double in price.
I see that the KLM flights are between 60 and 160 euro...(not 90-150euro)
Don't forget that SN has a deal now where it is 99euro instead of 120. Guess it's a good deal.

One question though, on SN's site it says that the champagne is "only for flights departing from Brussels".
What do you get when you are flying to Brussels? (or was it Belgium city? #Trump) :D :D

RTM
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Re: Brussels Airlines introduces Economy Plus on longhaul flights

Post by RTM »

sean1982 wrote:Ryanair for example just gave 4cm extra on all of its new configured aircraft by putting in new seats. It doesnt warrant it calling it Y+. I think the product is being called premium without it being really premium.
What have they got to do with this??? Keep that sick discussion out of a SN thread for a change please! Totally, TOTALLY off topic!
sean1982 wrote:And to answer your question, yes I have been on an SN A330 but the tilt is not sufficiënt with a double recline if you dont want to recline yourself.
Ok, that is your opinion. Please make sure to enter it in the passenenger survey next time you fly them on a long haul flight.
And off coarse you have noticed that the redesigned seatbacks go further then just a new headrest... (hint)

sean1982
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Re: Brussels Airlines introduces Economy Plus on longhaul flights

Post by sean1982 »

Passenger wrote:
sean1982 wrote:You are gonna keep repeating that mantra? I do work for the another airline but it has no direct competition with SN whatsoever.
Both Ryanair and British Airways are severe competition airlines for Brussels Airlines. And on this forum, sir, you are about the only one who has the strange need to constantly bash the competition from your employer. You did so when you were working for Ryanair, and sadly enough it seems you are going to do so also whilst you work for British Airways.
You fall into repetition "passenger". Just because I admit working for an airline being that a competitor or not does not mean that I cannot give an opinion (some people just keep pretending they have no ties with SN ;) ). Btw, the amount of Belgians in executive club can nearly not be put into a percentage so no, there market are not or only very slightly in competition. The blanket question was a genuine question? What defines a Y+ blanket from a Y blanket?
RTM wrote:
sean1982 wrote:Ryanair for example just gave 4cm extra on all of its new configured aircraft by putting in new seats. It doesnt warrant it calling it Y+. I think the product is being called premium without it being really premium.
What have they got to do with this??? Keep that sick discussion out of a SN thread for a change please! Totally, TOTALLY off topic!
No need to shout RTM, the reason why this is not off topic is because you cannot just slap on a few extra cm's with a better meal and champagne (one way) and call it Y+. I think that that is not what passengers who pay for the premium would expect. I mean, yes the price is quite low, so some people might be tempted, the question is if it is sufficient in the customers eyes.
Last edited by sean1982 on 16 Jun 2016, 19:08, edited 6 times in total.

RTM
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Re: Brussels Airlines introduces Economy Plus on longhaul flights

Post by RTM »

sean1982 wrote:No need to shout RTM, the reason why this is not off topic is because you cannot just slap on a few extra cm's with a better meal and champagne (one way) and call it Y+. I think that that is not what passengers who pay for the premium would expect. I mean, yes the price is quite low, so some people might be tempted, the question is if it is sufficient in the customers eyes.
It is totally off topic, and you know that very well...
A pear is just an apple with a hump, hence you can compare them... Right?

One is a cheap shorthaul operator, the other is a hybrid longhaul service of a hub operator.

FR didn't give anything, they just lowered cost by installing lighter seats. Added benefit is more legspace, so as soon as they twisted Boeings arm hard enough to get the aircraft certified for more pax, extra seat rows will be added. Other than that, they offer nothing on top.
SN actually took seat rows out to accommodate a better service level for those who are willing to pay just that little more. Also, 4 cm is not the same as 8 cm. But in most aircraft actually, every cm counts to be honest. So even the 4 are appreciated for the time it is available.
Further, extra recline angle, and better catering level is added value if you ask me, and especially as a package, it is well worth the money if you are my length. But from my point of view, even just the legroom and recline angle alone would allready be worth it.
So if they are not allowed by you to call it Y+, what name would you suggest? Come on, make a constructive comment, in stead of a demeaning one.

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