Reopening Brussels Airport after the 22/03/2016 terror attacks

Join this forum to discuss the latest news that happened in the world of commercial aviation.

Moderator: Latest news team

Post Reply
LJ
Posts: 897
Joined: 14 Mar 2004, 00:00
Location: Heiloo NL

Re: Reopening Brussels Airport after the 22/03/2016 terror attacks

Post by LJ »

Charlie Roy wrote:Apparently, Federal Minister for the Interior, Jan Jambon, and the Police unions have agreed to new security procedures starting Wednesday that will "drastically decrease" the waiting times.
Too late. The damage has already been done as it made the Dutch news (and probably othre countries as well). The message that it's chaos will translated by many as "don't use BRU as a point of origin" and probably will scare some transfer pax away as well. Given that the first ones to leave are usually those which spend a lot, it doesn't look well for SN and all the other airlines at BRU.


BTW fortunately it didn't rain (as I could imagine that images of people waiting in the rain or other bad weather would be worse for BRU's image).

Flanker2
Posts: 1729
Joined: 05 Dec 2012, 23:15

Re: Reopening Brussels Airport after the 22/03/2016 terror attacks

Post by Flanker2 »

avroflyer_1 wrote:@Flanker2 There is just no point in keeping these checks up, it's just ridiculous...

You don't go trough a check to enter a shopping mall, cinema, train station,... either, do you? While essentially those places could be a target too with an equal amount of victims if they were to attack it.

So why should an airport have such entry checks? especially since BRU is the only airport in the west that has it...
Would you pay 1 million to buy a lottery ticket with which you can win 0,50 EUR?
BRU is the center of an economy, it creates business and supports a lot of jobs.

The cost of securing the entry to the departure hall is minimal compared to the economic damage that can be done.

Let's compare it with the metro.
If another bomb goes off inside the metro, the next day people will move by car or still take the metro for lack of alternatives. The impact on the rest of the population is minimal.
It's not justifiable for the added security to cost 2 Euro's when the ticket costs 1 Euro, it's cheaper to close down the metro.

If another bomb goes off inside the departure halls, the next day people will avoid BRU and use any of the other airports as alternative. You can close SN and you might as well close BRU once and for all. 30.000 jobs down the drain. The impact on the rest of the population is huge.
It's justifiable to have added security that costs 2 Euro's when you are paying 30 Euro's for security and the use of the airport, and that said airport is making hundreds of millions in profits.
The shareholders won't be poorer for 10% less profits, so here it's financially viable to do it.


As for the shopping mall, supermarket, universities, etc...
Here too, the impact is limited. People are dispersed and the damage is limited to the structure itself. It has happened in the past, people move on.

But it has already happened once in BRU and BRU can't afford for it to happen again.
Imagine the local police says that you are only allowed to open 2 cash registers at the same time "for safety reasons we don't discuss about".

That is what happened at Brussels Airport today. Plenty of airport staff, plenty of airline staff, 110 registers in the departure hall. But only 3 police checks. And police unions forbit that a 4th is opened.
I would like to see evidence of that because I think that it's bullsh*t. I've been in that line and through the police check, so I know what is going on.
Police unions are saying that not enough staff was made available by BRU for the actual pre-screening at the X-rays and that is where the bottleneck is. When I went through, the police officers were doing nothing between pax, because the line to the X-ray was stuck.

A police officer takes 5 seconds to check the passport and boarding pass of the passengers. It can take less than 5 seconds if there is BRU staff to tell pax reaching the police checkpoint to keep it ready, even if there is not a lot of police staff.
One police officer can hence check 720 pax per hour if everything is well-organised, or 2100 pax per hour if there are 3 police officers and BRU staff to support them. That is well above the required capacity for BRU departures, even on the busiest days.
It takes more than 20 seconds to go through the x-rays though.

One police check line can support more than 3 X-ray lines, because it takes way longer to go through the X-rays than have the passports checked. So BRU can make sure that for every police officer checking passports at the entrance of a tent, there are at least 3 screening lines inside the tent.

I wouldn't even care if BRU had to pay for additional police officers themselves. Their shareholders know that investing always comes with risk and the worst that could happen has happened. I couldn't care less if they're going to make less profits and nor will they.

The best proof that BRU is p*ssing at the pax is the lack of support in those queues. If really this was caused by the police unions trying to sabotage for their own gain, BRU should have staff handing out blankets, wheelchairs, hot soup, water bottles and snacks in those queues so that they can at least show appreciation for the pax. I see none of that, so I point the finger at BRU.
Last edited by Flanker2 on 02 May 2016, 23:24, edited 1 time in total.

evyncke
Posts: 74
Joined: 27 Mar 2016, 19:28

Re: Reopening Brussels Airport after the 22/03/2016 terror attacks

Post by evyncke »

With all due respect, Mr/Mrs Flanker how often do you fly from BRU as passenger?

How many foreign colleagues/partners/customers have come via BRU and will probably no more come?

Flanker2
Posts: 1729
Joined: 05 Dec 2012, 23:15

Re: Reopening Brussels Airport after the 22/03/2016 terror attacks

Post by Flanker2 »

I flew outbound and inbound last week and will fly outbound and inbound next week and outbound longhaul the week after that.
Again inboud longhaul after 2 weeks, out and in the week after that and longhaul outbound the week after that.
All from BRU, some booked very recently too.
I hope that that's enough for you.

I expect BRU to resolve all the issues by next week and if they don't, they won't hear the end of it.
Last edited by Flanker2 on 02 May 2016, 23:47, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
lumumba
Posts: 1813
Joined: 04 Sep 2003, 00:00
Location: brussels Europe

Re: Reopening Brussels Airport after the 22/03/2016 terror attacks

Post by lumumba »

Flanker2 wrote:I flew last week and will fly next week and the week after too.
And again 2 weeks after that and the week after.
It's very easy if Brussels is not competitive anymore than we will lose passangers to other more easy airports.
And Brussels Airlines will go bankrupt because it's a very competitive world,civil aviation .
And Brussels will become a small regional airport.
Like I sead already before it's not Tell Aviv here in Isreal if you wanna leave you have to fly true Tell Aviv.
Here it's not the same you have a lot of other possibilities ...
Or all the European airports do the same or Brussels do like the other European airports....
Hasta la victoria siempre.

Jetter
Posts: 480
Joined: 06 Nov 2015, 21:07

Re: Reopening Brussels Airport after the 22/03/2016 terror attacks

Post by Jetter »

Flanker2 wrote:The cost of securing the entry to the departure hall is minimal compared to the economic damage that can be done.
...
If another bomb goes off inside the departure halls, the next day people will avoid BRU and use any of the other airports as alternative.
Your argument fails right at the start. What difference does it make for the economic damage or the number of people avoiding BRU if the line at the pre-check is attacked or the line at the check-in? The answer is none and thus your whole story makes no sense whatsoever.

Flanker2
Posts: 1729
Joined: 05 Dec 2012, 23:15

Re: Reopening Brussels Airport after the 22/03/2016 terror attacks

Post by Flanker2 »

Jetter wrote:
Flanker2 wrote:The cost of securing the entry to the departure hall is minimal compared to the economic damage that can be done.
...
If another bomb goes off inside the departure halls, the next day people will avoid BRU and use any of the other airports as alternative.
Your argument fails right at the start. What difference does it make for the economic damage or the number of people avoiding BRU if the line at the pre-check is attacked or the line at the check-in? The answer is none and thus your whole story makes no sense whatsoever.
I'm sorry but the explanation is clear if you use a quarter of your brain.
First of all, any line at the check-in can't be attacked except with minimal means thanks to the pre-screening.
Second, there won't be a line at the pre-screening if Brussels Airport put money and their brains to work.
Sure, terrorists can still hit the pax who approach the pre-screening, but there should be military presence there and you also have the police officers doing the screenings. So again, they can still kill a handful, but the situation will be relatively contained.

If this is so hard for you to understand, I can see why BRU has a hard time too.

Removing the pre-screening is an invitation for another attack.
Is that what you want?

Like I said, I'm against those long queues, I was very vocal about that.
It's not safe and it's a target for terrorists.

So they have to keep the pre-screening and remove the long queues.
Is it that difficult to agree with common sense, or has this country none of it left?

Passenger
Posts: 6937
Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Reopening Brussels Airport after the 22/03/2016 terror attacks

Post by Passenger »

Flanker2 wrote:Removing the pre-screening is an invitation for another attack.
If there were candidat terrorists in Brussels at this moment, they would hit now, before the pre screening is gone. Imagine you are a terrorist: hundreds of people in a queue at a well known airport - all bumped into a few square metres - easy to join them with a suitcase full of explosives - lots of cameras nearby. There will be limited material damage, but there will be ten times more victims then with the previous bomb attacks.
Flanker2 wrote:If this is so hard for you to understand, I can see why BRU has a hard time too.
Strange indeed. How is it possible that only one guy in the whole world knows what has to be done: our Flanker. How is it possible that so many people with so many professional experience in aviation safety & security all suffer at the same time from tunnel vision, are all at the same time unable to think out of the bock, are all at the same time unable to know what has to be done for something that is basics in their job?

You behave, once again, like that drunken ghost driver on the freeway. He turns on the radio, and hears that news flash: "attention all drivers on the E19 between Brussels and Antwerp: there is ghost driver on the road. Keep right, don't overtake". The guy looks outside and says to himself: "just one ghost driver? They are all driving in the wrong direction here."

I feel extremely sorry for all people working for Brussels Airport, for Brussels Airlines and for all other airlines. Many have lost friends, but yet they have all worked extremely hard to get the airport back in business. But now there is that stupid police union that takes them hostage in a pension/retirement age conflict. Therefore sir, please show at least some respect for the victims of 22/03 and post your stupid and ugly comments somewhere else. U bezorgt mij en anderen plaatsvervangende schaamte.

Shengenzone
Posts: 288
Joined: 22 Feb 2016, 16:59

Re: Reopening Brussels Airport after the 22/03/2016 terror attacks

Post by Shengenzone »

Flanker2 wrote:
Jetter wrote:
Flanker2 wrote:The cost of securing the entry to the departure hall is minimal compared to the economic damage that can be done.
...
If another bomb goes off inside the departure halls, the next day people will avoid BRU and use any of the other airports as alternative.
Your argument fails right at the start. What difference does it make for the economic damage or the number of people avoiding BRU if the line at the pre-check is attacked or the line at the check-in? The answer is none and thus your whole story makes no sense whatsoever.
I'm sorry but the explanation is clear if you use a quarter of your brain.
First of all, any line at the check-in can't be attacked except with minimal means thanks to the pre-screening.
Second, there won't be a line at the pre-screening if Brussels Airport put money and their brains to work.
Sure, terrorists can still hit the pax who approach the pre-screening, but there should be military presence there and you also have the police officers doing the screenings. So again, they can still kill a handful, but the situation will be relatively contained.

If this is so hard for you to understand, I can see why BRU has a hard time too.

Removing the pre-screening is an invitation for another attack.
Is that what you want?

Like I said, I'm against those long queues, I was very vocal about that.
It's not safe and it's a target for terrorists.

So they have to keep the pre-screening and remove the long queues.
Is it that difficult to agree with common sense, or has this country none of it left?
I see you gave in to terrorists by changing the way we live. No thank, we can improve other security measures wich are not so drastic in our lifestyle/way of living.
And otherwise if you would follow your logic you had to install this pre-check at every metrostation, concert, ... Did we put a pre-check when the jewish museum in Brussels was hit by a terrorist?
And 100% security is an illusion, it is something we like to believe to make ourselves feel comfortable.
We can only try to make it as safe as possible with the limitations we have.

Flanker2
Posts: 1729
Joined: 05 Dec 2012, 23:15

Re: Reopening Brussels Airport after the 22/03/2016 terror attacks

Post by Flanker2 »

Well Passenger, the queues are still there so who says that they won't hit now?
The queues will be there tomorrow and the day after as well and if I may guess, based on how BRU handled this whole situation, the queues will be there 2 weeks from now!

If they remove the pre-screening, the chances of another attack are quite big.
ISIS Europe HQ is just down the A201, I remind you.

Don't come crying if that happens.
Because then you can forget your beloved SN and your even more beloved Eurowings project.
The airport can close its doors.

Why are all of you people against making BRU invest money into security? I pay more to BRU each month than for my utility bills, yet I have to stand in the cold for over an hour while risking being blown to pieces each time or risk being reduced to pieces inside the departure hall? No way, BRU has to take the money that I'm spending with them and make sure that I don't have to stand in the cold outside nor risk being blown up neither inside or outside the airport hall.

It's not a matter of being afraid or not. I don't pay money to be treated like cattle or a target.

The police union is just a convenient excuse and this is why.
The police union is a branch of the socialist government, and so is BRU.
They can pretend to point fingers at each other, but at the end of the day, they are all part of the same system that is out to save money and to test what they can get away with.

Homo Aeroportus
Posts: 1281
Joined: 24 Feb 2007, 18:28
Location: 2300NM due South of North Pole

Re: Reopening Brussels Airport after the 22/03/2016 terror attacks

Post by Homo Aeroportus »

Flying out of BRU this morning so I could see by myself how long it takes to proceed.
SN to FCO at 07:40, so Departure 1, i.e. “normal” terminal. First time for me since I previously had to go through the temporary facilities.

Considering the large number of flights in the early morning, I decided to play safe and here is my timeline :
0523 : on A201 Fly over.
Only 2 cars in front of me at police road check.
0528 : parked at P2. I recommend top floor, less crowded and .. nice view.
0530 : entering pre-screening tent. 1 person ahead in same line.
0533 : entering the terminal. Strange feeling. Bought a magazine, chat with military here 5 Linie, Bn Bevrijding van Leopoldsburg. Others outside were from 4 Group CIS from Marche.
0544 : passed through security check (fast lane, others were busy but estimate no more than 15 min processing as 9 lines were open). Young lady said she reported on duty at 0330 so I guess some Pax arrive really early.
0552 : The Loft, well attended.
0558 : Buon appetito.
Conclusion : at this time of this day, arriving even less than 1 hour before STD should have been OK.

No doubt that others, flying at a different time of the day, will have different experience.

H.A.

thalenoi
Posts: 98
Joined: 04 Apr 2005, 00:00
Location: Hot Isaan village, Thailand

Re: Reopening Brussels Airport after the 22/03/2016 terror attacks

Post by thalenoi »

I sent a nice long mail to Jan Adam, I guess anything might help to have these people come to their senses.

As to Flanker2: you are so boring I even don't read your crap.

Homo Aeroportus
Posts: 1281
Joined: 24 Feb 2007, 18:28
Location: 2300NM due South of North Pole

Re: Reopening Brussels Airport after the 22/03/2016 terror attacks

Post by Homo Aeroportus »

Quite an amazing number of posts here about the absolute need to have a pre-screening before entering the terminal in order to prevent the re-occurrence of the 22/03 attacks.

Drawn on their experience in WW 1, the French built the Maginot line to prevent the Germans from reiterating their invasion and, in a quite unfair move, the Germans went around it in 1940 !
I thought that “those who fail to remember history are doomed to repeat it” as someone said.

Many years ago, when I had a shorter haircut and a thinner waistline, I was sent abroad for a course on threat and security management in a country that has brought this matter to high levels.
The officer in charge of the course had a very simple yet clear introductory speech for our group. He said “A threat is like water or electricity : it will always go along the easier path. Build a dam and it will go around it, increase the resistance at some point in the circuit and it will go through a lower resistance path.”

It may seem at first sight that a pre-screening will prevent the same attack to take place but it just moves the threat elsewhere, as already said on this forum many times.
I’m not giving any ideas to the mad guys as anybody can figure this out easily but an airport has an unguarded perimeter fence of +10km long and an aircraft on short finals is very low above ground well within reach of an AK47 burst of rounds.
Let’s hope that they will come to terms with this and agree on a new set up that mitigate the risk while allowing the activities to return to normal.

H.A.

User avatar
sn26567
Posts: 37695
Joined: 13 Feb 2003, 00:00
Location: Rosières/Rozieren, Belgium
Contact:

Re: Reopening Brussels Airport after the 22/03/2016 terror attacks

Post by sn26567 »

I just missed you, Homo Aeroportus. I was at the entrance of Pier A, waiting for my gate number to be announced.

I had a similar time line.
0620 police control after the A201 flyover. 15 cars before me but only slightly slowed down.
0625 parked at P2,upper floor (7). No other choice.
0626 through the stairs to the tents (you could wait for the elevators for ages). Queue of 20 people on each of the two lines. Two other tents for people coming from railway station, P1 and P3.
0635 out of pre screening. No ID check. My boarding pass checked on my phone just before body scan, and then I had to put it on the baggage belt. Strange!
0650 breakfast at Belle et Belge, the best value for money.
0710 Walk to Connector. Five people before me at one of the 7 open lines. Boarding pass check, but still no ID.
0720 At Pier A. Waiting for gate nr...

In less than one hour at the gate, breakfast included. I woke up way too early!
André
ex Sabena #26567

sean1982
Posts: 3273
Joined: 18 Mar 2003, 00:00
Contact:

Re: Reopening Brussels Airport after the 22/03/2016 terror attacks

Post by sean1982 »

b-west wrote:You really give me too much credit, Jetter. But anyway...

How many of those security tents are open? This morning I read on twitter only one out of three was open. The airport however knows perfectly well how many passengers are departing every hour. And it's BAC who decides on how many staff of G4S is going to be at the various checkpoints. If they then put a totally insufficient number of staff at the checkpoints, they are either more incompetent than I thought already or, in a rather twisted strategy, they are deliberately trying to sabotage the pre-check.
Dont spread false information b-west. Its NOT G4S or the airport who is responsible for the pre-check. Its the police. In fact, my brother who is a police Officer in "het Waasland", far from BRU, has been ordered to go and do shifts at the airport multiple times already at the pre-check. And so are all other police zones over the country. Airport police however is safely inside the building :mrgreen:

Passenger
Posts: 6937
Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Reopening Brussels Airport after the 22/03/2016 terror attacks

Post by Passenger »

Mark De Scheemaecker, president Brussels Airport, on "De Afspraak" (VRT tv, Monday 02 May 2016):

text:
http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/regio ... =1.2646476

video 10 min starts when clicking on this link:
http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/video ... =1.2646203

Passenger
Posts: 6937
Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Reopening Brussels Airport after the 22/03/2016 terror attacks

Post by Passenger »

Open letter from the Association of Flemish travel agents to the Belgian minister of Interior Affairs. Same content as 90% of the reactions here: the pre checks are useless ànd they damage Brussels Airport.

Open brief van de VVR aan de Minister van Binnenlandse Zaken.

Mijnheer de Minister,

Sta ons vooreerst toe U te feliciteren met de wijze waarop U één van de grootste crisissen die ons land de voorbije decennia heeft meegemaakt hebt benaderd.

Maar toch moeten wij Uw bijzondere aandacht vragen voor een probleem waar onze beroepsvereniging de tolk wil zijn van zowel de overgrote meerderheid van de Vlaamse reisorganisatoren en reisbemiddelaars als van de Vlaamse reiziger.

Sedert de weder opstart van Brussel Nationaal volgen wij met grote bezorgdheid de wijze waarop bepaalde diensten, inzonderheid de luchtvaartpolitie, de veiligheidsmaatregelen toepassen.

Het verplaatsen van het veiligheidsrisico van binnen de luchthaven naar de stoep van de luchthaven heeft totaal geen zin en stelt de opeengepakte reizigers die zich verdringen voor de toegang niet alleen bloot aan nutteloze wachttijden en de weersomstandigheden maar ook aan een enorm risico.

Wij verzoeken u dan ook de nodige maatregelen te treffen opdat de bagagecontrole plaats vindt waar zij hoort – met name tussen de check-in en het laden van het vliegtuig - en dat de controle aan de toegang van de luchthaven zich beperkt tot het toelaten van personen die over een geldig vliegtuigticket beschikken. Dit moet de wachttijden aanzienlijk verminderen zonder de veiligheid aan te tasten.

Indien dit niet op korte termijn wordt gerealiseerd vrezen wij onherstelbare schade voor de Nationale luchthaven, de reissector en de reizigers.

Met de meeste hoogachting.
Antoon Van Eeckhout, Voorzitter
Bart De Baere, Secretaris generaal

Acid-drop
Posts: 2792
Joined: 29 Jun 2005, 00:00
Location: Liège, BE
Contact:

Re: Reopening Brussels Airport after the 22/03/2016 terror attacks

Post by Acid-drop »

In the meantime... the most paranoid airline in the world:
all EL AL flights to and from Brussels, will be operated to/from Liege until May 7, 2016.
My messages reflect my personal opinion which may be different than yours. I beleive a forum is made to create a debate so I encourage people to express themselves, the way they want, with the ideas they want. I expect the same understanding in return.

b-west

Re: Reopening Brussels Airport after the 22/03/2016 terror attacks

Post by b-west »

sean1982 wrote:
b-west wrote:You really give me too much credit, Jetter. But anyway...

How many of those security tents are open? This morning I read on twitter only one out of three was open. The airport however knows perfectly well how many passengers are departing every hour. And it's BAC who decides on how many staff of G4S is going to be at the various checkpoints. If they then put a totally insufficient number of staff at the checkpoints, they are either more incompetent than I thought already or, in a rather twisted strategy, they are deliberately trying to sabotage the pre-check.
Dont spread false information b-west. Its NOT G4S or the airport who is responsible for the pre-check. Its the police. In fact, my brother who is a police Officer in "het Waasland", far from BRU, has been ordered to go and do shifts at the airport multiple times already at the pre-check. And so are all other police zones over the country. Airport police however is safely inside the building :mrgreen:


Don't spread false information Sean. It is the airport who decides how much security staff gets allocated. Your brother was there to check tickets and id's (together with the airport police) at the entry of the tent or to do patrolling duty around the airport. Just ask your brother who was manning the metal detectors inside. It wasn't the police. And then ask him if there was enough police there to man every door to the tent. The answer will be yes. Then ask him if all the doors were open. The answer will be no, as there wasn't sufficient G4S staff.

sean1982
Posts: 3273
Joined: 18 Mar 2003, 00:00
Contact:

Re: Reopening Brussels Airport after the 22/03/2016 terror attacks

Post by sean1982 »

The bottle neck is NOT at the metal detector .... Its at the entrance ;)
And who decided the metal detector should be there in the first place? Not BRU, not G4S :mrgreen:

Post Reply