"Eurowings Europe" on track to start in March 2016

[SLM]

Sean 1982 wrote, 'that SN employees may expect when LH takes over. Work more, be more flexible, work longer, earn less.'

It is not a secret that EW doesn't pay a lot so it was a little joke that i wrote 'maybe you can earn more at mcdonalds'. Lufthansa has to be serious.

[Passenger]

If a low cost airline wants to compete to Ryanair, there are two possiblities:

1. you also rip off innocent passengers, not aware of the unusual conditions & abnormal surcharges.

2. you don't rip off passengers, but you save on all operational costs. Maybe the Eurowings contracts are indeed amongst the worst. But even then, they are probably beaten by Crewlink contracts for starters.

[brusselsairlinesfan]

The full integration of brussels Airlines into Eurowings is not confirmed yet... wait & see

[sean1982]

If a low cost airline wants to compete to Ryanair, there are two possiblities:

1. you also rip off innocent passengers, not aware of the unusual conditions & abnormal surcharges.

2. you don't rip off passengers, but you save on all operational costs. Maybe the Eurowings contracts are indeed amongst the worst. But even then, they are probably beaten by Crewlink contracts for starters.

As long as te biggest operational cost, ie fuel, is low than that is all fine. Even the biggest airlines driving cost down tremendously for what is to come. The issue with SN is that their loadfactor remains stable. They grow, because their airplanes grow, but airplanes filled to 77% capacity dont make you money once fuel prices start to go up. Ryanair is at 98%. There is a long way to go

[OO-ITR]

If a low cost airline wants to compete to Ryanair, there are two possiblities:

1. you also rip off innocent passengers, not aware of the unusual conditions & abnormal surcharges.

2. you don't rip off passengers, but you save on all operational costs. Maybe the Eurowings contracts are indeed amongst the worst. But even then, they are probably beaten by Crewlink contracts for starters.

As long as te biggest operational cost, ie fuel, is low than that is all fine. Even the biggest airlines driving cost down tremendously for what is to come. The issue with SN is that their loadfactor remains stable. They grow, because their airplanes grow, but airplanes filled to 77% capacity dont make you money once fuel prices start to go up. Ryanair is at 98%. There is a long way to go

Dont worry. We will get there. We have proven wrong those who said and hoped that SN would be dead and burried 6 months after the arrival of Ryanair in BRU. And for that matter those who said the same after the start up of SN Brussels Airlines

[sean1982]

If a low cost airline wants to compete to Ryanair, there are two possiblities:

1. you also rip off innocent passengers, not aware of the unusual conditions & abnormal surcharges.

2. you don't rip off passengers, but you save on all operational costs. Maybe the Eurowings contracts are indeed amongst the worst. But even then, they are probably beaten by Crewlink contracts for starters.

As long as te biggest operational cost, ie fuel, is low than that is all fine. Even the biggest airlines driving cost down tremendously for what is to come. The issue with SN is that their loadfactor remains stable. They grow, because their airplanes grow, but airplanes filled to 77% capacity dont make you money once fuel prices start to go up. Ryanair is at 98%. There is a long way to go

Dont worry. We will get there. We have proven wrong those who said and hoped that SN would be dead and burried 6 months after the arrival of Ryanair in BRU. And for that matter those who said the same after the start up of SN Brussels Airlines

I hope so. I, for one, aint very optimistic about european aviation in general at the moment with profit warnings flying left and right.

[Poiu]

Dont worry. We will get there. We have proven wrong those who said and hoped that SN would be dead and burried 6 months after the arrival of Ryanair in BRU. And for that matter those who said the same after the start up of SN Brussels Airlines

Let's hope so, BUT without the low oil price, state subsidies and loans transformed into dodgy share schemes there would be no SN today.
After the recent profit warnings from Lufty it is clear tha the future will be Eurowings Brussels or no wings at all unfortunately.

[OO-ITR]

Dont worry. We will get there. We have proven wrong those who said and hoped that SN would be dead and burried 6 months after the arrival of Ryanair in BRU. And for that matter those who said the same after the start up of SN Brussels Airlines

Let's hope so, BUT without the low oil price, state subsidies and loans transformed into dodgy share schemes there would be no SN today.
After the recent profit warnings from Lufty it is clear tha the future will be Eurowings Brussels or no wings at all unfortunately.

Don't hope for something you don't wish for!

Let me remind you and your alter ego that the oil prices were VERY high and strangly enough SN is still there, growing and attracting more and more passengers.
And before you make dumb comments about state aid, be sure you get your facts straight.
But it is true. If SN would conclude dodgy contracts with airports and their employees, they would indeed do much better.

[Poiu]

Let me remind you and your alter ego that the oil prices were VERY high and strangly enough SN is still there, growing and attracting more and more passengers.
And before you make dumb comments about state aid, be sure you get your facts straight.
But it is true. If SN would conclude dodgy contracts with airports and their employees, they would indeed do much better.

And let me remind you that SN had to be saved by an emergency loan from Lufty and the write off of the original investment when the fuel prices were at a REALISTIC level, not even very high.
And don't get me started about the money from the special aircrew pension which was used to subsidise SN.
To quote Mr Gustin " we are in survival mode"
About dodgy contracts: SN, FR and others in Belgium use the same kind of contracts for some of their pilots.

[sean1982]

Another one
Mods, again please, can you confirm the different ip adresses??

[Passenger]

Lufthansa is not the only airline to send out a profit warning. Actually, the worst profit warnings come from airlines who are very active in the U.K.: Easyjet, Ryanair and British Airways.

Apart from the uncertainty caused by the Brexit, Lufthansa gives another reason for its profit warning: "...Advance bookings, especially on long-haul routes to Europe, have declined significantly, in particular due to repeated terrorist attacks in Europe and to greater political and economic uncertainty since the original forecast was made in March..."

Source:
http://investor-relations.lufthansagrou ... 7-mar.html

[Poiu]

Lufthansa is not the only airline to send out a profit warning. Actually, the worst profit warnings come from airlines who are very active in the U.K.: Easyjet, Ryanair and British Airways.

Apart from the uncertainty caused by the Brexit, Lufthansa gives another reason for its profit warning: "...Advance bookings, especially on long-haul routes to Europe, have declined significantly, in particular due to repeated terrorist attacks in Europe and to greater political and economic uncertainty since the original forecast was made in March..."

Source:
http://investor-relations.lufthansagrou ... 7-mar.html

Exactly, and this is what Sean and myself are trying to make clear for months, overcapacity is looming around the corner. Any economic downturn or terrorist attack is putting airlines under big pressure. Growth which is not sustainable when oil prices return to a normal level is doomed to fail. The same with load factors below 85% for low fare airlines or ageing fleets who burn more fuel and have a higher maintenance cost. Unfortunately some on here prefer to shoot at the messenger and put their head in the sand.

[Inquirer]

A small question, since the remark has been made a few times: just what are 'realistic oil prices' exactly?

We at work also have oil as our main raw product, and we have it priced in at an average of 60 euro for the forseeable future.

I am not sure to what extend those very expensive consulting banks get it right, but one can forget about oil prices of 100 dollars and more: those times are definitely not going to come back anytime soon.

[OO-ITR]

Let me remind you and your alter ego that the oil prices were VERY high and strangly enough SN is still there, growing and attracting more and more passengers.
And before you make dumb comments about state aid, be sure you get your facts straight.
But it is true. If SN would conclude dodgy contracts with airports and their employees, they would indeed do much better.

And let me remind you that SN had to be saved by an emergency loan from Lufty and the write off of the original investment when the fuel prices were at a REALISTIC level, not even very high.
And don't get me started about the money from the special aircrew pension which was used to subsidise SN.
To quote Mr Gustin " we are in survival mode"
About dodgy contracts: SN, FR and others in Belgium use the same kind of contracts for some of their pilots.

First of all (and again), check your sources and esp the validity.
The survival mode is already a few years behind us and was rather brief. And look at SN, they survived!
A loan granted by LH, that was not used completely...
And about the dodgy contracts, I will not loose to much of my precious time. But there are a few interesting books on that matter. Unfortunately non of those are/were written by SN employees!

[sean1982]

The defensiveness on this forum is on the verge of ridiculousness. If I see the measures that are being taken by the biggest airline group in europe to "batten down the hatches" for what is to come .... I hope SN management has a more cautious approach to the matter

Are you denying that SN is employing pilots through contracting agencies btw ITR?

[OO-ITR]

The defensiveness on this forum is on the verge of ridiculousness. If I see the measures that are being taken by the biggest airline group in europe to "batten down the hatches" for what is to come .... I hope SN management has a more cautious approach to the matter

Are you denying that SN is employing pilots through contracting agencies btw ITR?

Oh Sean esp you should know (as apparantly you recall everything everyone is writing on this forum) that I never denied that SN is employing a SMALL part of pilots. Nothing wrong with that. In fact most of the airline work with contractors. Esp in the busy summer season. It makes sense!

All cabin crew and most of the pilots are employed directly by SN and have a Belgian contract.

But a contract is dodgy when everything around is dodgy. Like I said, read the books written by ex-employees. Interesting read!

But I already know what you will answer. These employees are misgruntled and frustrated people. And the media are bad...

[Passenger]

But a contract is dodgy when everything around is dodgy. Like I said, read the books written by ex-employees. Interesting read!

Trust you mean this book?
http://fr.metrotime.be/2015/11/17/must- ... compagnie/

There is summary in Dutch available since last week. Written by someone who probably dislikes Ryanair more because it's a capitalist firm, rather than because they rip off starting staff. Anyway, I thank him for this contribution:
http://www.dewereldmorgen.be/artikel/20 ... et-betaald

[sn26567]

May I remind everybody that this thread is about "Eurowings Europe", not SN (except if it is to become Eurowings in the future), nor FR.

[Boeing767copilot]

Eurowings posted a first-half EBIT loss of €89 million, deepened from a €22 million loss in the first half of 2015, a result attributable mainly to its ramp-up and project costs and to the challenging competitive environment.

[sean1982]

Eurowings posted a first-half EBIT loss of €89 million, deepened from a €22 million loss in the first half of 2015, a result attributable mainly to its ramp-up and project costs and to the challenging competitive environment.

Its widely known that airline groups starting their own LCC's is usually a useless effort. Vueling, eurowings, hop are all not working. The traditional airlines seem to not be able to get the right formula.