VLM Airlines news 2016

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SLM
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Re: VLM Airlines news 2016

Post by SLM »

Fingers crossed!

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CTBke
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Re: VLM Airlines news 2016

Post by CTBke »

Freddy didn't get green light from the bcaa for taking over the activities from VLM together with the Aviation Factory

article in Dutch
http://m.gva.be/cnt/dmf20160629_0236250 ... -overnemen
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SLM
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Re: VLM Airlines news 2016

Post by SLM »

What about Vizion Air?

Passenger
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Re: VLM Airlines news 2016

Post by Passenger »

CTBke wrote:Freddy didn't get green light from the bcaa for taking over the activities from VLM together with the Aviation Factory

article in Dutch
http://m.gva.be/cnt/dmf20160629_0236250 ... -overnemen
It's now almost sure: VLM Airlines will not / will never start up again. Founding father Freddy Van Gaever is no longer candidate for a restart because, he says, the Belgian Civil Aviation Authority orders ridiculous and unfeasable demands.

"They ask me for a fully detailled business plan, but I cannot realize this on short notice. And it's even not possible, given the circumstances. I'm so sorry. I'm sorry for the 50 people who would have been employed as from today. I'm sorry for Carl Legein (The Aviation Factory) who was going to join me for this new airline. I give up. I quit. Yes, law requires that a business plan is transmitted. But the way that the CAA demands it, isn't possible to realize".

Didymus
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Re: VLM Airlines news 2016

Post by Didymus »

How can you call yourself an entrepreneur if you refuse to make a business plan?

Passenger
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Re: VLM Airlines news 2016

Post by Passenger »

Didymus wrote:How can you call yourself an entrepreneur if you refuse to make a business plan?
It's not about a business plan - because Freddy Van Gaever and Carl Legein have it / had it. It's because the requirements that the CAA has set for the business plan. It must be detailled in such way that it is impossible to realize on short notice.

Didymus
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Re: VLM Airlines news 2016

Post by Didymus »

Sorry, but I don't buy that. Van Gaever makes the analogy with the baker who has to estimate the number of bread rolls he will sell within three months, but that's simply what a business plan is all about: making realistic yet detailed projections for the future. No bank would ever give him a loan without that anyhow.

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sn26567
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Re: VLM Airlines news 2016

Post by sn26567 »

In view of the past failures of FVG, I can understand that the BCAA is cautious not to repeat such mistakes.
André
ex Sabena #26567

Passenger
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Re: VLM Airlines news 2016

Post by Passenger »

Didymus wrote:Sorry, but I don't buy that. Van Gaever makes the analogy with the baker who has to estimate the number of bread rolls he will sell within three months, but that's simply what a business plan is all about: making realistic yet detailed projections for the future. No bank would ever give him a loan without that anyhow.
There is a business plan. Good enough for the bank, unsufficient for the Belgian CAA. Regarding the bakery: no baker can determine for sure the exact number of rolls he will sell in three months time. He can only say "I hope to sell x rolls by 1st October".

Regarding the bank loan (if they would need it): that is no problem for the Belgian CAA. The CAA could demand a letter of confidence from a bank, and that should be enough.

saratoga
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Re: VLM Airlines news 2016

Post by saratoga »

I am not a business man but i also thought that setting up a business plan was requirement number 1 to set up a business. What i don't understand is what does the BCAA have to do with that? They are the responsible to issue licences, AOC's and all other regulation matters. A businessplan is more a economical issue, it falls out of the scope of the BCAA.

Like i thought before: he never had a vision about his new company.

Well i guess we can say now, RIP VLM! :(

sean1982
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Re: VLM Airlines news 2016

Post by sean1982 »

saratoga wrote:I am not a business man but i also thought that setting up a business plan was requirement number 1 to set up a business. What i don't understand is what does the BCAA have to do with that? They are the responsible to issue licences, AOC's and all other regulation matters. A businessplan is more a economical issue, it falls out of the scope of the BCAA.

Like i thought before: he never had a vision about his new company.

Well i guess we can say now, RIP VLM! :(
If you cannot prove that you will have enough money, you wont be able to maintain your airplanes properly, wont be able to train your crew properly, hence safety will be impacted. That's why the CAA has a thing to say

Didymus
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Re: VLM Airlines news 2016

Post by Didymus »

Passenger wrote:Regarding the bakery: no baker can determine for sure the exact number of rolls he will sell in three months time. He can only say "I hope to sell x rolls by 1st October".
Exactly, but the point of making a business plan is showing why you think you can sell the amount you project, make a SWOT analysis, etc. Just coming up with some numbers simply isn't good enough.

Flanker2
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Re: VLM Airlines news 2016

Post by Flanker2 »

Like I said, FVG isn't so young anymore.
First, a detailed business plan is not easy to make in short notice, but this isn't 1993 anymore, so it's one of the things you plan for before appearing all over the news with your take-over inentions.
Second, you need support and cash to start an airline. A lot of it. FVG had it back in the days but who invests in aviation nowadays? With enough cash, such a detailed business plan would have been made in no time, there are enough consultants around.
Third, I think that an entrepreneur who campaigns for an extreme right party should prepare for the fact that his political agenda could interfere with his business and should put another figure at the front instead of being all over it himself.

I think that Aviation Factory should go for it by themselves.

Also, why doesn't the staff make an attempt by themselves, by putting in some of their own savings and get financing from banks and the regional governments for the rest? It would be in the government's interest too, since they can save about 200.000-300.000 Euro a month in welfare payments.
Ah well, why bother if you can get paid to stay home and cash welfare without doing a thing for it.

koninckske
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Re: VLM Airlines news 2016

Post by koninckske »

The Aviation Factory has to do it themselves. And not with 6 F50s as in the plan with Freddy Van Gaever. They should make their Vizionair a real airline. They can generate the income, they have grown their business a lot over the past few years. Why wouldn't they be able to start with just 2 F50s or 3? I am sure they are doing the numbers now to see if it would be profitable. I hope they will take the next weeks or 2 months to write a realistic businessplan to show to the BCAA. I believe in them, never in FVG since he is too emotional about his old child VLM. Emotions don't work in business, numbers do.

SLM
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Re: VLM Airlines news 2016

Post by SLM »

Vizionair as real airline is a good idea. (with new routes from ANR)

Fokker 50 planes are still good aircrafts for some routes.
Fingers crossed.

PttU
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Re: VLM Airlines news 2016

Post by PttU »

Especially if they could take over the ANR-LCY route for CityJet again, I guess that could make a nice base income for them.

carllegein
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Re: VLM Airlines news 2016

Post by carllegein »

dear colleagues, yes we will continue with a lighter plan, after the Van Gaever plan turned out to be a no go. Mr Van Gaver is a fantastic man, it is an honor knowing him.
Our light plan will be 1 or 2 Fokker 50, or other aircraft, on a AOC of an existing airline. Today we charter day by day on a ad hoc base. Next step is leasing , having the commercial risk and giving the operational and maintenance issues in hands of an expert : existing airline. And a last step might be the creation of a own AOC.
Our next plan is purely Aviation Factory, we do not need a external partner, we will be able to turn this around since we already have the clients. Even though it is a no brainer, it still will be a brave step. Buying a bread day by day is not the same as signing for 700 breads to be delivered every day the next 2 years. But we strongly believe we can!
Cheers.
Carl Legein

saratoga
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Re: VLM Airlines news 2016

Post by saratoga »

I wish you all the best. It is really nice to see you want to stay independant without an external partner. Good that you have a vision for your company. I guess as an "entrepreneur" you always have to invent yourself and innovate the company, something that ex-vlm was lacking.

But why staying with those F50?? No better and more comfortable aircraft on the market for the same price???

FLYAIR10
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Re: VLM Airlines news 2016

Post by FLYAIR10 »

In 2001 with the start-up of VG-airlines, the BCAA was also asking for a 'businessplan'. and that was also one of the major problems for FVG at that time. (next to Finding the funds for the deposit with bcaa for his 3 A330's)

I don't understand why FVG went to Brussels another time without a businessplan knowing that the BCAA will for sure ask again for one. It can not be too difficult to make at least a 30-40 page document or ppt with a title 'VG-businessplan' and describing a scenario for start-up and expected financial statement for the first 12-18 months? Or is that too simplistic? Full of assumptions and estimates probably ,but at least the criterium 'to submit a businesplan' would be fulfilled.
IMO he is throwing the towel too early this time after all the optimism he showed last week.

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sn26567
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Re: VLM Airlines news 2016

Post by sn26567 »

carllegein wrote:Our light plan will be 1 or 2 Fokker 50, or other aircraft, on a AOC of an existing airline.
Great to see that at least something will be left from what used to be a great independent airline before it fell in the hands of Air France.

Thank you, Carl, for keeping us informed of your plans and aspirations. We really do appreciate.
André
ex Sabena #26567

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