VLM Airlines news 2016

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Xavi
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Joined: 25 Jan 2016, 20:29

Re: VLM Airlines news 2016

Post by Xavi »

VLM will operate LCY - CWL (Cardiff) for flybe from 12th September till 21st October 24/7.

As well VLM enabled the beta version of the Online Check-In on their website.

koja78
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Joined: 06 Jan 2014, 07:32

Re: VLM Airlines news 2016

Post by koja78 »

I don't know why killing the SuperJet was good according to soo many people? I thought they made a financially good deal on that one.

As long as they keep flying the F50, I only see a future for them in short haul charter market.
It's time to upgrade.. or die.

Xavi
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Joined: 25 Jan 2016, 20:29

Re: VLM Airlines news 2016

Post by Xavi »

Pretty interesting article about VLM:

http://atwonline.com/airlines/new-beginning

Passenger
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Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: VLM Airlines news 2016

Post by Passenger »

koja78 wrote:I don't know why killing the SuperJet was good according to soo many people? I thought they made a financially good deal on that one.
First reason: new aircraft are never delivered on time. That’s why the Fokker F120NG failed: Peter Hartman (KLM) refused to order them.

Second reason: a small airline shouldn’t play PR for an aircraft manufacturer.

Let me tell you a story that Freddy Van Gaever told during one of his very pleasant diner-causeries, when he was asked about this VLM Sukhoi deal:

A few decades ago, Delta Air Transport was shopping for jet aircraft and Van Gaever was contacted by Russian aircraft manufacturer Yak. They offered him an almost free one year test if DAT would become their launch carrier in the non-USSR Europe (think it was the 40 or 42). To check if such aircraft would or wouldn’t be accepted by the Belgian public, DAT organized a test trip to Southern France for a load of journo’s and a touroperators (actually they were more travel agents at that time). And then, during the return flight to Antwerp, it happened: engine failure. Emergency landing on the nearest airfield. No cell phones yet, only fixed telephone lines. Local maintenance was called to the aircraft, but no mechanic or engineer at the airport was qualified to touch the aircraft. So the pilot had to phone his base and ask for a few engineers + equipment to be sent to southern France. Scheduled flight Moscow Paris next day, then a long shuttle to the airport. Van Gaever had to book the group in a local hotel, and he called a coach operator from Antwerp to come and pick them up. End of story for Yak.

Lesson for VLM: don’t become the launch carrier for a manufacturer without a decent support network in the region where you want to operate. And certainly not when you have a small fleet without backup.

koja78
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Re: VLM Airlines news 2016

Post by koja78 »

The support network.. I can follow you on that one... but it might be even a business opportunity for the first ones to set up a support for the SSJ in Europe. Launch carrier.. it seems the SSJ's are doing quite well in Mexico.

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sn26567
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Re: VLM Airlines news 2016

Post by sn26567 »

Interesting story about the Yak-40, Passenger. I do remember that the Yak-40 had nevertheless been ordered by a small German airline based in Dusseldorf, and there were even BRU-DUS flights (one of which I have tested myself).

However, in this case, the SSJ has also been ordered by CityJet. I can't imagine Sukhoi without a support network in Western Europe for some 24 aircraft.
André
ex Sabena #26567

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YYZ727
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Re: VLM Airlines news 2016

Post by YYZ727 »

sn26567 wrote:Interesting story about the Yak-40, Passenger. I do remember that the Yak-40 had nevertheless been ordered by a small German airline based in Dusseldorf, and there were even BRU-DUS flights (one of which I have tested myself).
Wasn't that airline named 'General Air' ?

DIBO
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Re: VLM Airlines news 2016

Post by DIBO »

Support for the Yak back then and the SSJ100 now, are totally not comparable. SSJ100 has a lot of western technology, a service centre in Venice, engine spares come from Melun (just besides Paris), instruments from Thales, etc. I think the SSJ100 support in Belgium might be better than for ex. with the Mitsubishi Regional Jet. But of course introducing a (fairly) new airplane should never be underestimated (even if it's a Boeing)...

Xavi
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Joined: 25 Jan 2016, 20:29

Re: VLM Airlines news 2016

Post by Xavi »

VLM stops operating RTM - HAM in April! Last flight bookable is on 7th April.
Sad, but I guess with a LF of about 25% you can't generate profit on a route.

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sn26567
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Re: VLM Airlines news 2016

Post by sn26567 »

VLM Airlines Adds Altenrhein – Pula Charters in Summer 2016

VLM Airlines in summer 2016 season plans to offer seasonal charter service to Croatia, with 1 weekly Altenrhein – Pula operation. Service will operate between 15MAY16 and 09OCT16, on board Fokker 50 aircraft.

Code: Select all

VG610 ACH1110 – 1245PUY F50 7
VG611 PUY1315 – 1500ACH F50 7
Source: Airline Route
André
ex Sabena #26567

Xavi
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Joined: 25 Jan 2016, 20:29

Re: VLM Airlines news 2016

Post by Xavi »

Tomorrow last flight Rotterdam - Hamburg :-(

On the other hand the Hamburg flights to Friedrichshafen will be increased in June, July and September:
Friday: 3x instead 2x
Sunday: 2x instead 1x

Shengenzone
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Joined: 22 Feb 2016, 16:59

Re: VLM Airlines news 2016

Post by Shengenzone »

https://m.tijd.be/ondernemen_luchtvaart ... 752325.art

VLM appearantly already burned through all their cash from the sale of their 4 aircraft. Furthermore they where unable to pay their employees in time last month. (only 160left)
And the simple reaction is: We have still aircraft to sell... If that is wath you call management these days, then i think we have a problem.

Passenger
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Re: VLM Airlines news 2016

Post by Passenger »

Shengenzone wrote:https://m.tijd.be/ondernemen_luchtvaart ... 752325.art

VLM appearantly already burned through all their cash from the sale of their 4 aircraft. Furthermore they where unable to pay their employees in time last month. (only 160left)
And the simple reaction is: We have still aircraft to sell... If that is wath you call management these days, then i think we have a problem.
Gazet Van Antwerpen: All employees were paid a few days ago, but indeed a few days later then normal.
http://www.gva.be/cnt/dmf20160407_02224 ... r-zuurstof

Their annual account 2014 showed a massive cost (2,5 mio) for the closure of Rotterdam. Seems they had another huge setback (or several setbacks) for 2015.

saratoga
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Re: VLM Airlines news 2016

Post by saratoga »

Shall we speak out what everybody thinks: soon no more VLM. :(

Avnu
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Joined: 03 Sep 2014, 23:27

Re: VLM Airlines news 2016

Post by Avnu »

Oh my, that doesn't sound good at all. They're really counting on Friedrichshafen now, which is probably all they have left as they don't seem to be in a position to take any risks now, however small they may seem.

They've been shedding staff, selling old planes, burning money and - most worryingly - getting into trouble when they had to make a relatively small and totally predictable payment to one of their strategic partners (the way I understand it, Wirecard and other similar companies are quite often used by the airline sector).

I wonder whether this news will be picked up by the local press in the Bodensee area and whether it will have an effect on longterm bookings.

Avnu
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Re: VLM Airlines news 2016

Post by Avnu »

Passenger wrote:Their annual account 2014 showed a massive cost (2,5 mio) for the closure of Rotterdam. Seems they had another huge setback (or several setbacks) for 2015.
Wasn't Rotterdam closed last year?

Xavi
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Joined: 25 Jan 2016, 20:29

Re: VLM Airlines news 2016

Post by Xavi »

I think what VLM is doing in 2016 isn't bad, the problem is what they have done in 2015.

In 2016 they are cancelling the routes which are not working well and where you make loss on every flight (with LF less than 30%, sometimes even less than 20%). As well the decision that they don't lease the Sukhoi machines is even good, at the moment no money and as well the machines are much too big for the current situation. Waterford and Friedrichshafen routes have average loadfactors of 50-60% and the yield doesn't look bad.
I am still surprised that the Antwerp routes aren't that well. As I've taken samples the LF was just about 25-40%.

But what they have done in 2015, especially the LGG experiment did cost a fortune I guess. Hope they'll surive, especially the next months.

Avnu
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Joined: 03 Sep 2014, 23:27

Re: VLM Airlines news 2016

Post by Avnu »

Xavi wrote:I think what VLM is doing in 2016 isn't bad, the problem is what they have done in 2015.

In 2016 they are cancelling the routes which are not working well and where you make loss on every flight (with LF less than 30%, sometimes even less than 20%). As well the decision that they don't lease the Sukhoi machines is even good, at the moment no money and as well the machines are much too big for the current situation. Waterford and Friedrichshafen routes have average loadfactors of 50-60% and the yield doesn't look bad.
I am still surprised that the Antwerp routes aren't that well. As I've taken samples the LF was just about 25-40%.

But what they have done in 2015, especially the LGG experiment did cost a fortune I guess. Hope they'll surive, especially the next months.
I think we can all agree some decisions taken in 2015 have cost them huge amounts of money. But are they indeed doing better in 2016? A year where they sold 4 planes (for supposedly 6 million euro) and yet have to 'pray' that Wirecard won't ask them for a 500.000 euro deposit before the salaries are due?

They clearly know what's written in their contract with Wirecard and at what level of forward bookings they have to come up with this amount. And yet they can't pay both their business partner and their employees at the same time. It's one or the other and a matter of spreading out the payments to bring in fresh money. In a way, they were having their day-to-day business financed by their own employees. Not something you can do more than once.

So the real question becomes whether Waterford and Friedrichhafen bring in money faster than Antwerp spends it.

Passenger
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Re: VLM Airlines news 2016

Post by Passenger »

Avnu wrote:
Passenger wrote:Their annual account 2014 showed a massive cost (2,5 mio) for the closure of Rotterdam. Seems they had another huge setback (or several setbacks) for 2015.
Wasn't Rotterdam closed last year?
Yes, but a first loss was already booked in 2014. VLM Nederland BV went bankrupt at the end of 2015, but VLM (Belgium) had invested 2.500.000 € in February 2014. At the end of VLM Belgium financial year 2014, this 2.500.000 € had to be corrected to the real value of VLM Nederland B.V. (= their "eigen vermogen" / own assets), which was only +36.122 € at 31/12/2014. Hence the cost, for VLM's financial year 2014, of 2.476.386 € (booked as Uitzonderlijke Kosten).

(source: annual account 2015).

I agree with Xavi on the huge costs for their LGG experience.

(edited -> 2 typo's)
Last edited by Passenger on 07 Apr 2016, 21:02, edited 2 times in total.

Avnu
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Re: VLM Airlines news 2016

Post by Avnu »

Thanks Passenger, I see what you're saying now.

By the way: they got their LGG slots for free. Not that that made the whole operation 'free' of course. But still, remarkable.

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