Interview of CEO Gustin: Brussels Airlines renamed Eurowings? ...and other topics

[Inquirer]

From germany to Belgium? No one
From Belgium to germany ... Much cheaper for them. Why would you need ops here for 8 million pax when you have a support centre in germany who can do it all?
JAF doesnt have a flightplanning department for example. Its done in germany! FR runs its OPS with 8 people only! from DUB. For 320+ aircraft!

Again, what are you talking about?
You keep going about some office staff, but forget that for a minute, please.

If they'd turn BRU into that "hybrid product connecting hub" of the Lufthansa group I am talking about, their purely flight related employment is going to be very significant, especially if additional intercontinental flights are indeed included! Those couple of hundred back office jobs which may (or may not) get lost will easily be absorbed by the additional crews needed for the expanded operations: THAT's what I am meaning to say.

[sn26567]

The article in Aviation Week ("Lufthansa Nears Eurowings Expansion Decisions" : http://aviationweek.com/awincommercial/ ... -decisions) is only available to paid subscritions. Same for an article that just appeared in ch-aviation ("Lufthansa considering Brussels Airlines' future ": http://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/ ... nes-future).

Anyone who has access to one or both these articles and could summarise them to the benefit of all of us?

[Passenger]

As for an LCC feeding a L/H operation (unless that operation is also an LCC) I dont think that that is a good idea. Just look at some passenger reviews about SN who are very positive about the LH and extremly dissappointed about their connecting on the SH LCC. IAG is having the same problems with people connecting onto Vueling, Iberia express or aer lingus.

“Some passenger reviews”. Indeed: some passengers aren’t that happy because seat pitch and services are better on long haul LH then on short haul SN. But then, this even happens when the feeder is the same airline as the long haul. And yes, for a long haul in C class, the difference is even bigger. But here also when the feeder is the same airline.

My practical experience is that this can be easily prevented by the party who sells the tickets. When the travel agent tells his client about the quality difference –and the reason why- before the flight, there is no problem: passengers accept it. For direct bookings, the problem for airlines is bigger because airlines don’t know for sure if the client understands that "C" means Business Class for long haul only.

But then... Isn’t it strange that a Ryanair employee talks about a bad service from a three star airline as feeder, when his own airline is just a two star airline (*) but wants to offer feedings for long hauls? So thanks Sean for confirming my previous statements that Ryanair will not / cannot operate as feeder.

(*) = Skytrax Airlinequality.com

[sean1982]

2 star or 3 star, what's the difference? The food on the LH.
The passenger score is the same! 5/10 (*) I wouldnt limit it to "some passengers" as that is the average of all reviews.

Im indeed not pro-feeding gor FR (unless to Norwegian)
(*) skytrax

Inquirer, you're going to have to A LOT of extra airplanes to support the loss to belgian economy if the ops/HR/PR/management/training disappears

[Passenger]

2 star or 3 star, what's the difference? The food on the LH.
The passenger score is the same! 5/10 (*) I wouldnt limit it to "some passengers" as that is the average of all reviews.

(*) skytrax

These are the real, correct and full quotes from Airlinequality.com:

The 3-Star Airline Rating is awarded to airlines delivering a fair Quality performance equating to an industry “average” of acceptable product and service standards. This 3-Star rating signifies a satisfactory Product quality across different travel cabins. It is performing below 4-Star requirements due to inconsistency amongst either product and/or front-line Staff Service for the Onboard and home-base Airport environments. There are presently 119 airlines ranked in the 3-Star Airline category.

The 2-Star Airline Rating includes airlines that are delivering a lower total Quality performance, in some instances below the industry average across many rating categories. A 2-Star Airline rating signifies an inconsistent or lower Quality of Product and/or front-line Staff Service for the Onboard and home-base Airport environments. There are presently 22 airlines ranked in the 2-Star Airline category.

Source:
http://www.airlinequality.com/ratings/s ... e-ratings/

[sean1982]

Its an LCC ... With no different cabins. Off course the product is lower quality. Fact remains that the passenger score remains the same. And the main concerns are difference between LH/SH quality and missed connections in BRU/punctuality.

[RoMax]

And the main concerns are difference between LH/SH quality and missed connections in BRU/punctuality.

Do you have data about missed connections?
You realise punctuality is often negatively impacted exactly to avoid missed connections (one of many reasons most LCC's only sell point to point tickets)?

[sean1982]

I do. Im just saying that those 2 points are the things I read the most from customers, specially when having to transfer between the 2 terminals. (Also for FR btw)

[RoMax]

I do. Im just saying that those 2 points are the things I read the most from customers, specially when having to transfer between the 2 terminals. (Also for FR btw)

True, but such customer reviews don't say anything about the overall performance in terms of missed connections. People who had a bad experience are much more inclined to complain (compared to people having a regular or good experience) and a missed connection is especially something people get angry about. Yet many of such complaints on the internet, doesn't mean the real percentage is high.

[sean1982]

Im not claiming that. But because passenger brought up skytrax (again) I just wanted to point out that that's one of the 2 things customers seem to have issues with

[Inquirer]

Inquirer, you're going to have to A LOT of extra airplanes to support the loss to belgian economy if the ops/HR/PR/management/training disappears

I dont, because I am not running this airlines, but I see your point, although I think its wrong.
Last time they claimed about 100 direct jobs for a single intercontinental route!
If they add another few of those, that's going to make more than good for all the departments you mention, I suppose, especially if also taking into account the indirect jobs.
Not fun for the people in those departments, but then so is life.
They will join the imaginary thousands of unemployed that would have been serving all those passengers now flying ryanair from Belgium and creating zero direct employment overhere, just to use your own argument of potential loss of employment in certain departments against you for a second.

[sean1982]

What do you mean zero direct employment? FR employs about 800 people directly in Belgium (and many many more indirectly)

And I thought this dicussion was about SN? What's with all the FR hate again?

[Treeper]

Here we go again...

[Stij]

Yawn... stay on topic...

[Conti764]

ON IAG, The importance for AIG could be a major intra European hub, maybe with a specialization on Africa, but apart from that... To relieve LHR they have MAD for South America (and why not for Africa as well???), DUB for North America and HEL for the Far East.

Cheers,

Stij

When I say relieve LHR, I mean being a less served and cheaper alternative for airlines possibly offering a second, third flight to London. BA can restart their 'shuttle' service with almost an hourly flight between BRU and LHR to offer streamless connections.

The other hubs have their niches, as do BRU and SN...
Iberia from Africa? Why? Spain has no historic ties with Africa, at least not black Africa. Spain is South-America.
Dublin has a large US network, but only because its home carrier Aer Lingus flies to a lot of airports accros the pond. The US is to EI and DUB what Africa is to BRU and SN. From the nine destinations offered by US carriers, there are no less then 5 only seasonal flights, compared to BRU's 6 year round operations, and one possible seasonal (UA's second EWR rotation).

For Europe, BRU could be OW's most conveniently located hub, right in the heart of Europe. HEL is to far North, MAD too far South and DUB too far West. BRU would not only be the most conveniently located hub, but also right in the middle of two Skyteam hubs and in the backyard of Star Alliances most important European hub. Enough reasons why SN would have more importance to IAG/Oneworld than to LH/Star Alliance...

[brabel]

There's an article on deredactie.be where it says that the employees and unions are worried for the future.
The spokesman Sciot says that SN won't become a classic low cost airline.

http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/economie/1.2563609

[Conti764]

There's an article on deredactie.be where it says that the employees and unions are worried for the future.
The spokesman Sciot says that SN won't become a classic low cost airline.

http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/economie/1.2563609

Well, I guess they won't tell us details from the talks...

Since I don't think LH will let SN go to the competition and the full acquisition is as good as a done deal, I am worried for SN's future... BrusselsWings...? Come on...

Why not make a FrankfurtWings, MunichWings, ZurichWings or ViennaWings? If they really believe some hybrid FS/LCC platform is the way to go, let them turn every short to medium haul operation into the same Wings-concept. Besides, OS, LH or even LX short and medium haul is nothing better then SN's and on the long haul, pax are consistently praising SN's service... Why change anything? Just leave it as it is, allow SN to grow in its own niche and use Eurowings for real high density leisure flights...

[flymd11]

If we look back at recent LH group decisions, 52 DUS routes were transferred from Lufthansa to the Wings brand.

These were long-established routes from a large high-yield market (catchment area of 18 million in a 100km radius).

It seems foolish to a assume they won't do the same from BRU.

[Boavida]

I am very worried. Look what those Germans did with Jetairfly. They scrapped the Belgian brand and changed it to the meaningless generic "TUI", and even scrapped all Belgian flags from the planes!

I really hope SN isn't going the same way, but I fear the worst.

Just look at this reaction from a German on Airliners.net:

It's a real possibility and quite frankly not very far fetched, considering Belgium is pretty much a non-country and EU-rized anyway, it's the perfect spot to do something like this.

[Poiu]

I dont, because I am not running this airlines, but I see your point, although I think its wrong.
Last time they claimed about 100 direct jobs for a single intercontinental route!.

Don't be to sure about that. LH is already sending German pilots to fill SN seats. A logical descision, as they have a surplus though. Eurowings crews could fly easily W pattern through Brussels as well.
Eurowings is about one thing only: cost cutting! LH knows that there not many jobs on the Belgian aviation market and I fear they will soon take advantage of it by offering the same jobs at lower TCs in Brussels Wings.
SN will become an empty box with only debts, whilst the assets will be transferred for 1€ to Eurowings. A little bit like SNBA and Sabena.