Interview of CEO Gustin: Brussels Airlines renamed Eurowings? ...and other topics

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Flanker2
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Re: Interview of CEO Gustin: Brussels Airlines renamed Eurowings? ...and other topics

Post by Flanker2 »

Passenger wrote:
sean1982 wrote:
Passenger wrote: I guess tolipanebas is thinking the same as I do: "Wow, that's a lot of nonsense in one post. That guy really has no idea what's going on between LH and SN.".
And you, the expert, does? Please ... Enlighten us!
I listen to what the specialists say, like senior aviation journalist Luk De Wilde (*). And like professor Vandevoorde, Department of Transport, Universiteit Antwerpen, this weekend on Kanaal Z: "Lufthansa uses Brussels Airlines mainly to counter Ryanair at Brussels (**). Also, the Africa network Brussels Airlines has established is very valuable and Lufthansa will never give that up".

Source:
http://kanaalz.knack.be/nieuws/brussels ... 61557.html

(*) Luk De Wilde:
http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/video ... =1.2564979

(**) that's exactly what I've said already before, isn't it Sean? Brussels Airlines has proven how legacy airlines can counter Ryanair at major airports.
Did you listen to the interview of De Wilde? He is saying almost the same things as I am.
"Brussels Airlines management have no say once LH takes control", "management trying to avoid that everything goes to Germany", "SN could become a subsidiary of the low cost arm, management and Belgian shareholding trying to prevent that".

I don't agree with some other things that he says though, which are his own analysis.

1. For instance, that LH sees BRU/SN as a third hub next top FRA/MUC in West Europe.
In fact, LH still has plenty of room to grow in MUC and now they are building a DUS hub with Eurowings. So they don't need SN/BRU at all for that. (Africa is another story, though there is nothing that would prevent LH from moving that elsewhere as bilaterals are signed)
Also, FRA is less than an hour away.
I don't think that BRU's positioning has anything uber-strategic for the LH group.

2. Also, I don't agree that LH has been loyal.
In fact, they have already earned back more than their low initial investment and made quite some money with SN by selling SN a lot of services that SN would have bought from third parties, ie maintenance, IT, staff, etc... Moreover, they also benefit from being exclusive on FRA and MUC flights. You can see LH aircraft coming in and out of BRU throughout the day to feed their longhaul hubs.
The 100 million loan was also not to save SN from a demise but to allow them to grow. Our government has bailed out SN from its demise by forgiving a start-up loan for more than 100 millions on top of yearly subsidies.
The old parked LX A332's that SN inherited are also barely worth calling a fleet investment. In fact, LX were trying to get rid of them anyway.
If LH would have been loyal, they would have exercised their call options much sooner and invested in the fleet expansion, including routes to Asia, so that SN could stay competitive. They would also have pressured TK to stay away from SN's Africa market.


I see this developing exactly as I described earlier, simply because if you consider SN as a purely strategic (read cheap way to hurt competitors) and as a financial instrument, it makes sense to shift everything under Eurowings.
In fact, if SN made only 30 millions more versus 2014, despite much cheaper fuel and 10% growth in traffic, it proves that SN is an inefficient corporation that can not reach a high ROI while carrying a lot of risk if trading conditions start to deteriorate. Investing more in it just doesn't make sense.
From a German's point of view it makes more sense to shift it into another operation that will make it both more profitable and serve German interests at the same time.

You can hear Mr Sciot's worry in his voice.

Poiu
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Re: Interview of CEO Gustin: Brussels Airlines renamed Eurowings? ...and other topics

Post by Poiu »

EW is about one thing only: cost reduction. When Lufty takes over Belgian management will be axed, you can see Mr Sciot is worried about his own job. The Germans know there are not many jobs on the Belgian market, so they will offer the same jobs at lower T and Cs at Eurowings.
As Flanker says, any profit below +/- 50 mio is not a good result, 2015 was an snow free winter, fuel price at a 10 year low whilst SN is still charging its passengers a fuel surcharge and don't forget the State subsidies.
Finally those saying SN should go for one world should realise that it would probably be Vueling absorbing SN and not mainline.
I am afraid the future for SN doesn't look good. For the travellers on the other side, increasing competition and looming overcapacity will lead to even lower fares.

flymd11
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Re: Interview of CEO Gustin: Brussels Airlines renamed Eurowings? ...and other topics

Post by flymd11 »

Flanker2 wrote: If LH would have been loyal, they would have exercised their call options much sooner and invested in the fleet expansion, including routes to Asia, so that SN could stay competitive. They would also have pressured TK to stay away from SN's Africa market.
Now how is LH going to pressure TK to stay away from SN's Africa market?

sean1982
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Re: Interview of CEO Gustin: Brussels Airlines renamed Eurowings? ...and other topics

Post by sean1982 »

flymd11 wrote:
Flanker2 wrote: If LH would have been loyal, they would have exercised their call options much sooner and invested in the fleet expansion, including routes to Asia, so that SN could stay competitive. They would also have pressured TK to stay away from SN's Africa market.
Now how is LH going to pressure TK to stay away from SN's Africa market?
Why would they have to? Turkish is star alliance as well. They easily code share their pax through IST when they come to an agreement about TK maybe giving up on some LH markets. AFI was very needed to keep SN alive, but not to keep LH alive in the slightest

LJ
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Re: Interview of CEO Gustin: Brussels Airlines renamed Eurowings? ...and other topics

Post by LJ »

sean1982 wrote:Why would they have to? Turkish is star alliance as well. They easily code share their pax through IST when they come to an agreement about TK maybe giving up on some LH markets. AFI was very needed to keep SN alive, but not to keep LH alive in the slightest
The relationship between TK and LH is not good (and that is an understatement). The fact that both airlines are in Star doesn't mean much. Moreover, codesharing is not interesting without a full joint venture.
Flanker2 wrote:1. For instance, that LH sees BRU/SN as a third hub next top FRA/MUC in West Europe.
Even worse, the third hub is ZRH.
Flanker2 wrote:and now they are building a DUS hub with Eurowings
ehhhh I hope you mean CGN?

convair
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Re: Interview of CEO Gustin: Brussels Airlines renamed Eurowings? ...and other topics

Post by convair »

Isn't EW basing some aircraft in Vienna as well? Anyway, it's one of LH group hubs as it is the home base of Austrian.

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sn26567
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Re: Interview of CEO Gustin: Brussels Airlines renamed Eurowings? ...and other topics

Post by sn26567 »

LJ wrote:
Flanker2 wrote:and now they are building a DUS hub with Eurowings
ehhhh I hope you mean CGN?
Eurowings will start flying from DUS as well (e.g. to BHX)!
André
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Flanker2
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Re: Interview of CEO Gustin: Brussels Airlines renamed Eurowings? ...and other topics

Post by Flanker2 »

sn26567 wrote:
LJ wrote:
Flanker2 wrote:and now they are building a DUS hub with Eurowings
ehhhh I hope you mean CGN?
Eurowings will start flying from DUS as well (e.g. to BHX)!
Eurowings from DUS:

Alicante (begins 29 March 2016),[27] Barcelona (begins 27 March 2016),[28] Basel/Mulhouse, Berlin-Tegel, Bilbao, Birmingham, Bucharest, Budapest, Dresden, East Midlands (begins 27 March 2016),[29] Edinburgh (begins 27 March 2016),[30] Geneva, Glasgow-International, Gothenburg-Landvetter, Hamburg, Katowice, Leipzig/Halle, Lisbon (begins 20 March 2016),[31] London-Heathrow, Lyon, Manchester, Menorca (begins 1 May 2016),[32] Milan-Malpensa, Newcastle upon Tyne, Nice (begins 27 March 2016),[28] Nuremberg, Paris-Charles de Gaulle, Poznań (ends 25 March 2016), Prague, Rome-Fiumicino, Stockholm-Arlanda, Thessaloniki (begins 27 March 2016), Valencia, Warsaw-Chopin, Wrocław, Vienna (begins 27 March 2016),[28] Zürich

Seasonal: Athens (begins 10 May 2016) Dublin, Heringsdorf, Kavala (begins 7 May 2016), Kütahya (begins 29 May 2016),[33] Heraklion (begins 2 May 2016), Varna (begins 29 June 2016)[32]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%BCsseldorf_Airport

b720
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Re: Interview of CEO Gustin: Brussels Airlines renamed Eurowings? ...and other topics

Post by b720 »

Indeed I've flown them from DUS to GVA
Excellent flight..

Jetter
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Re: Interview of CEO Gustin: Brussels Airlines renamed Eurowings? ...and other topics

Post by Jetter »

LJ wrote:
Flanker2 wrote:1. For instance, that LH sees BRU/SN as a third hub next top FRA/MUC in West Europe.
Even worse, the third hub is ZRH.
Even worse, the fourth hub is VIE :(

Inquirer
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Re: Interview of CEO Gustin: Brussels Airlines renamed Eurowings? ...and other topics

Post by Inquirer »

Flanker2 wrote:
sn26567 wrote:
LJ wrote: ehhhh I hope you mean CGN?
Eurowings will start flying from DUS as well (e.g. to BHX)!
Eurowings from DUS:

Alicante (begins 29 March 2016),[27] Barcelona (begins 27 March 2016),[28] Basel/Mulhouse, Berlin-Tegel, Bilbao, Birmingham, Bucharest, Budapest, Dresden, East Midlands (begins 27 March 2016),[29] Edinburgh (begins 27 March 2016),[30] Geneva, Glasgow-International, Gothenburg-Landvetter, Hamburg, Katowice, Leipzig/Halle, Lisbon (begins 20 March 2016),[31] London-Heathrow, Lyon, Manchester, Menorca (begins 1 May 2016),[32] Milan-Malpensa, Newcastle upon Tyne, Nice (begins 27 March 2016),[28] Nuremberg, Paris-Charles de Gaulle, Poznań (ends 25 March 2016), Prague, Rome-Fiumicino, Stockholm-Arlanda, Thessaloniki (begins 27 March 2016), Valencia, Warsaw-Chopin, Wrocław, Vienna (begins 27 March 2016),[28] Zürich

Seasonal: Athens (begins 10 May 2016) Dublin, Heringsdorf, Kavala (begins 7 May 2016), Kütahya (begins 29 May 2016),[33] Heraklion (begins 2 May 2016), Varna (begins 29 June 2016)[32]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%BCsseldorf_Airport
Indeed, they are starting to build up the routes from DUS too now, probably because it was the last of the places to see Lufthansa pull its flag brand out off: they even ran a sort of a mini-hub there, one which even had some interesting benefits over their mega-hubs in FRA and MUC, but I guess that being so close to BE and in the absence of a flight to BRU, such was largely unknown here.
No idea if eurowings plans to reintroduce some sort of connections through DUS again?
My impression is Lufthansa shifted (a big part of) their European connectivity from DUS to BRU in the last 2 years, which is explaining (in part) the excellent figures over here and its also why I am pretty excited about the fact they seem to be serious about taking over Brussels Airlines in full: my view is BRU would be a far better place to offer connections through than STR and CGN ever will (amongst others because of the intercontinental feed present there)? They are going to have to do it anyway for the lucrative African operations which they can't just move for legal reasons, so better use these hub facilities more optimally and add extra connecting flows to it now running through the above mentioned airports. A sizeable eurowings operation at BRU could very well open up interesting opportunities for additional intercontinental routes not supportable from just domestic demand plus the traction a brand like Brussels Airlines can ever create for them alone, either through a transfer from CGN (e.g. I see they will have a BOS from CGN, which I find father odd and might do better from BRU) or even simply newly created routes.

Passenger
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Re: Interview of CEO Gustin: Brussels Airlines renamed Eurowings? ...and other topics

Post by Passenger »

Next Friday, Luchtvaartnieuws Magazine (NL) will publish an interview with Markus Binkert, Chief Commercial Officer at Swiss. In a preview on their website, Luchtvaartnieuws.nl says that Swiss is very happy about / confident with the way Lufthansa regards Swiss.

Some quotes, translated by Google: "Lufthansa makes it possible for us to get new aircraft (B777-300ER and CSeries) and Lufthansa made it possible for us to open new lounges at Zürich... Capacity increase allow us nine hundred new flight attendants...Our shareholder invests considerable amounts in Swiss and in the ZRH hub... We can take largely independent decisions, but we can benefit from each other in new developments..."

http://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/c ... n-in-swiss

It looks like Lufthansa isn't that bad at all as parent company...

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sn26567
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Re: Interview of CEO Gustin: Brussels Airlines renamed Eurowings? ...and other topics

Post by sn26567 »

Passenger wrote:It looks like Lufthansa isn't that bad at all as parent company...
It depends for whom! Look at the other child of Lufthansa, Austrian: Vienna will get the first foreign Eurowings base, Austrian gets the E190s that Lufthansa Cityline doesn't want anymore instead of brand new CS100s, and has to keep its old 767s instead of getting new 777s, etc...

I doubt it that SN will get a better treatment than OS.
André
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sn26567
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Re: Interview of CEO Gustin: Brussels Airlines renamed Eurowings? ...and other topics

Post by sn26567 »

Jetter wrote:
LJ wrote:
Flanker2 wrote:1. For instance, that LH sees BRU/SN as a third hub next top FRA/MUC in West Europe.
Even worse, the third hub is ZRH.
Even worse, the fourth hub is VIE :(
Nope! BRU is bigger than VIE (at least in number of pax in 2015) :)
André
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sean1982
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Re: Interview of CEO Gustin: Brussels Airlines renamed Eurowings? ...and other topics

Post by sean1982 »

Passenger wrote: It looks like Lufthansa isn't that bad at all as parent company...
Look at Swiss's fleet. Look at SN's
Look at ZRH. Look at BRU
'Nuff said

Jetter
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Re: Interview of CEO Gustin: Brussels Airlines renamed Eurowings? ...and other topics

Post by Jetter »

sn26567 wrote:
Jetter wrote:
LJ wrote: Even worse, the third hub is ZRH.
Even worse, the fourth hub is VIE :(
Nope! BRU is bigger than VIE (at least in number of pax in 2015) :)
OS carries much more passengers than SN and VIE has much more transfer passengers than BRU. So I would call VIE a bigger hub for Lufthansa group than BRU, while BRU is bigger as a whole.

nordikcam
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Re: Interview of CEO Gustin: Brussels Airlines renamed Eurowings? ...and other topics

Post by nordikcam »

sean1982 wrote: Look at Swiss's fleet. Look at SN's
Look at ZRH. Look at BRU
'Nuff said
Hummm fleet : YES of course.
But what are u looking so good at ZRH and so bad at BRU ?
Thx.

White Light
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Re: Interview of CEO Gustin: Brussels Airlines renamed Eurowings? ...and other topics

Post by White Light »

Perhaps a small reminder (accompanied by a personal note) :
LH decided to buy 45 % of SN when Wolfgang Mayrhuber was at the helm at LH. Mayrhuber was an Austrian, not a German (different mentality as you will know). Then, he was replaced by Christopher Franz whom I will call the "Terminator", because, reading between the lines of his reports, press releases or statements, I noticed a strong reluctance towards SN (Franz wanted, imo, a Germanic LH with LH, LX and OS only). Then came Carsten Spohr who is perhaps someone inbetween Mayrhuber and Franz.
In other words, the good will prevailing during Mayrhuber's time is gone and one cannot help but consider LH's treatment of SN as being close to stepmotherly.
Passenger wrote:It looks like Lufthansa isn't that bad at all as parent company...
You quote Markus Binkert, Chief Commercial Officer, someone probably appointed (or "co-appointed" by LH). Consequently, it is normal he praises LH's behaviour. The same article you refer to however also says that "not everybody in Switzerland is happy that the national airline is no longer in Swiss hands" (but, I admit, without explaining why ; but we can guess).

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Re: Interview of CEO Gustin: Brussels Airlines renamed Eurowings? ...and other topics

Post by sean1982 »

nordikcam wrote:
sean1982 wrote: Look at Swiss's fleet. Look at SN's
Look at ZRH. Look at BRU
'Nuff said
Hummm fleet : YES of course.
But what are u looking so good at ZRH and so bad at BRU ?
Thx.
Not in facilities, but pax numbers, destinations offered, connection possibilities, etc ...

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travellover
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Re: Interview of CEO Gustin: Brussels Airlines renamed Eurowings? ...and other topics

Post by travellover »

Pax numbers 2015. Tiny difference (26.3 ZHR; 23.5 BRU). Same league players.

Europe 2015 pax.

17 : Switzerland. Zürich Airport : 26,281,228 [11] Increase 3.2%
21 : Belgium. Brussels Airport : 23,460,018 [14] Increase 7.0%

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_t ... _in_Europe
Cheers

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