Metrojet Airbus A321 - Kolavia EI-ETJ: plane crash Egypt

[boeing747]

https://www.rt.com/news/320217-russian- ... ff-radars/

[boeing747]

https://twitter.com/flightradar24/statu ... wsrc%5Etfw

[cathay belgium]

Hi,
Plane crash in the Sinai desert,Egypt.
Kolovia EI-ETJ an 18,5 year old A321 ,with Tui-smile livery in the past...,with plus 200 pax crashed !
Human fault, Airbus defect or shot down ?

Flight path is visible on flightradar...

RIP

CXB

On a note:
That TUI smile livery brought this company immediately as an nearby company I noticed...
Guess that effect works on bringing europe together...
Why was it repainted as the whole TUI group more and more becomes one?
Exit Russia segment?

[Treeper]

FR24 data http://www.flightradar24.com/data/airpl ... j/#7d986d3
It seems like an high altitude stall, if data is correct.

[cathay belgium]

Hi,

Pilot reported malfunction of cockpit and requested landing...

CXB

[Passenger]

https://www.rt.com/news/320217-russian- ... ff-radars/

Routing details:
http://avherald.com/h?article=48e9abe4&opt=0

Aircraft details:
http://www.airfleets.net/ficheapp/plane-a321-663.htm

[Flanker2]

It seems like an high altitude stall, if data is correct.

Isn't this ADS-B data coming from the air data computer/ADIRS?
So it could be that something else went kaput and that it wasn't stalling, but was displaying that speed.
After the AF447 crash, most pilots have been briefed about high altitude stalls, so it would be almost ridiculous if they did it again... but who knows.

Regardless, very sad news.

[airazurxtror]

The Islamic State group is claiming responsibility for bringing down the Russian Metrojet plane in Egypt's Sinai Peninsula - but it has have offered no evidence and is not known to have the capability to do so.

Lufthansa and Air France-KLM have decided to avoid the area for safety reasons, spokeswomen for the carriers said on Saturday.

[crew1990]

I migh be wrong but i think the north of the Sinaï is a military zone, someone can confirm. I fly over egypt tomorrow

[Passenger]

First pictures appear:

http://avherald.com/h?article=48e9abe4&opt=0

[jan_olieslagers]

For this once I will join the club of rumours, gossip, personal inspiration, and conspiracy theories: this must be revenge for MH17, cleverly disguised so the blame can be put on IS.

[crew1990]

But in the meantime, the pilot wanted to land in Cairo so it can only be a technical failure. I'm really curious.

[Homo Aeroportus]

I migh be wrong but i think the north of the Sinaï is a military zone, someone can confirm. I fly over egypt tomorrow

I remember of AL Gora AFB close to the border with Israel but I think this area is still pretty much under the terms of the peace treaty i.e. DMZ.

Wait a minute.
I checked the NOTAMS for the area. See below :

W0765/15 NOTAMN
Q) HECC/QWELW/IV/BO/AW/033/100/3050N03258E046
A) HEAR B) 1509302200 C) 1510312200
E) MIL EXER WI AREA
302203N0321626E-302624N0322138E-304600N0321700E-305800N0324600E-3102
00N0330200E-310800N0334700E-302203N0321626E,AWY V602 ISMAILIYAH/CVO,
AWY V606 ISMAILIYAH/ARH AND HEAR AP AFFECTED.
F) 3300FT AGL G) FL100
CREATED: 30 Sep 2015 12:36:00
SOURCE: HECAYNYX

I plotted this area where MIL exercises were taking place until .... today.

The area in red defined by the NOTAM coordinates is the MIL playground.

The green diagonal TBA-PASOS is UL550. Last Plot (FR24) is about 60NM South of El Arisch and 100km from the MIL area so probably unrelated to the MIL activity there.
Hopefully so.

Actually the NOTAM has been renewed this afternoon.
W0849/15 NOTAMN
Q) HECC/QWELW/IV/BO/AW/033/100/3045N03302E046
A) HEAR B) 1510312200 C) 1511302200
E) MIL EXER ALONG THE FLW COORDINATES
302203N0321626E-302624N0322138E-304600N0321700E-305800N0324600E-31020
0N0330200E-310800N0334700E-302203N0321626E, AWY V602
ISMAILIYAH/PSD,AWY V606 ISMAILIYAH/ARH AND HEAR CTR AFFECTED.
F) 3300FT AGL G) FL100
CREATED: 31 Oct 2015 16:14:00
SOURCE: HECAYNYX

Time will tell what happened.
RIP.

@ Crew1990 : fly safe tomorrow.

H.A.

[EBAW_flyer]

That NOTAM is quite recurrent the last years. And it's only up to FL100.
99% sure it has nothing to do with it. For the moment technical failure (+maybe pilot error) seems most probable cause for the moment.

[sn26567]

Russian ministry says there was an explosion at high altitude since the debris were scattered in an ellipse 8 km long and 4km wide. The Islamic State doesn't have weapons capable of reaching a target at FL350. But the explosion could have been due to a bomb carried into the plane by a passenger. I know by experience that security is to say the least lax at SSH. Another possibility is that they plane had a tech problem and that a weapon of ISIS reached it while the pilot was descending to an airport nearby.

[airazurxtror]

A Metrojet official says its plane crew did not send a distress call and did not contact Egyptian traffic controllers before the plane crashed into the Sinai.

Viktor Yung, a deputy director general at the Russian airline, spoke Monday at a news conference in Moscow. His comments directly contradict those of Egyptian officials, who say the doomed plane's pilot had reported a technical problem to air traffic controllers and wanted to make an emergency landing at the nearest airport.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/ ... 2-06-02-06

[teddybAIR]

They also announced that the airplane cannot have crashed for technical nor human errors. Now, there's a clear sign of an airline you need to shut down!

[MD-11forever]

Apparently, the aircraft had a tailstrike in 2001.

Downed Russian Jet Suffered Prior Damage Linked to Other Crashes
Metrojet A321 was damaged in 2001 when its tail hit runway
(Bloomberg) --
More than a decade before it burst into pieces mid-air, the Russian jetliner that crashed in Egypt on Saturday scraped its tail on a runway during landing and needed to be repaired.

Investigators poring over wreckage of the Metrojet Airbus Group SE A321 in Egypt’s Sinai peninsula will be taking a close look at a 2001 repair to the plane’s tail because it is one of the few things known to cause the type of sudden midair breakup that occurred Saturday, said John Goglia, a former airline mechanic who served on the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board.

Metrojet wreckage

“If the engineering is done right, it’s not an issue. If the repair follows the engineering data, it’s not an issue,” said Goglia, who isn’t involved in the Metrojet investigation. “But a breakdown in any one of those can and has resulted in catastrophic failures.”

Impacts between the rear of a plane and the ground during landing and takeoff -- known as “tail strikes” -- occur with some regularity, according to National Transportation Safety Board data. Since 2000, there have been at least 22 tail strikes that caused severe enough damage to warrant an investigation by the safety board, according to its online accident database. Goglia estimates there were 10 times more tail strikes than listed in the NTSB database but the cases weren’t reported to the accident-investigation agency because they were minor. In a small number of cases, however, such repairs have failed so violently that planes split at the seams and crashed.

If it’s found that the 2001 repair on the Metrojet aircraft played a role in the accident, investigators will want to ensure that there are no repairs on other aircraft at risk of failing, Goglia said. They would typically review the plans for repairs and may even seek inspections of other repairs, he said.

Part of the tail section on the Metrojet plane landed apart from other wreckage, indicating it broke off from the rest of the fuselage. The plane’s tail had been properly repaired, Andrey Averyanov, deputy general director for engineering at Kogalymavia, which operates under the Metrojet brand, said at a briefing in Moscow Monday. The plane, which was operated by another airline at the time, was repaired by Airbus in Toulouse, France, said Averyanov.

Other Factors

It’s too early to focus on a single possible cause, Steve Wallace, former chief of the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration’s accident investigation division, said in an interview. Investigators will be looking at factors including bombs, missiles, other on-board explosions and structural corrosion, Wallace said.

If the dome-shaped rear pressure bulkhead, which holds in air behind the plane’s cabin, is damaged, it’s typically repaired by adding an additional layer of aluminum sheet metal, Goglia said. Because the pressure within the cabin exerts huge stresses while a plane is at cruising altitude, the new metal is layered over a large area of the existing structure and riveted in place so it will hold, he said.

Damage to the bulkhead can occur because of an impact with the ground or as a result of cracking that occurs over time, he said. “I’ve been around airplanes in the several hundreds that I’ve personally touched that have had bulkhead repairs done,” Goglia said. “It’s a non-event if it’s done right.”

Violent Explosions

While it may take years for a repair to eventually crack enough to fail, that can lead to a violent explosion damaging an aircraft, according to accident reports. Such a failure occurred in 2002 when China Airlines Flight 611 flying from Taiwan to Hong Kong broke apart at the spot where the Boeing Co. 747’s tail was repaired 22 years earlier. Japan Airlines Flight 123 hit a mountain in 1985 after a similar repair came apart, claiming 520 lives. When the repair let loose, it blew off the vertical fin rising out of the tail. Without that fin, the plane couldn’t be controlled.

[airazurxtror]

A British government spokeswoman said: "While the investigation is still ongoing we cannot say categorically why the Russian jet crashed. But as more information has come to light we have become concerned that the plane may well have been brought down by an explosive device.
"In light of this, and as a precautionary measure, we have decided that flights due to leave Sharm for the UK this evening will be delayed.
"That will allow time for a team of UK aviation experts, currently travelling to Sharm, to make an assessment of the security arrangements in place at the airport and to identify whether any further action is required. We expect this assessment to be completed tonight."

[Treeper]

Are there any 'Belgian' flights planned (the coming hours/days)?