Brussels Airlines too noisy at Stockholm Bromma Airport

[skumfiduse]

Swedish media reports there is too much noise at Stockholm Bromma Airport. It's questioned whether the noise level is according to the environmental allowances. (I guess this is comparable to BRU take-off and landing routes)

More precisely, it's the Avro RJ100 operated by Brussels Airlines that is generating too much noise caused by an overly used 'air brake'. This is what's been written in a recently published environmental report issued by Stockholm City's Environment Administration. This department is also issuing Stockholm Bromma's environmental permit.

Swedavia, the airport authority, doesn't agree with it and states there's no plane violating the agreed noise levels. However, the airport authority has been put under pressure by politics to investigate whether Brussels Airlines' Avrojets can act more quietly at Stockholm Bromma.

Worst-case, Brussels Airlines' Avro RJ100 might be banned from operating to Stockholm Bromma Airport.

Sidenotes:
* Malmö Aviation, a regional Swedish airline, also uses Avro RJ100. Their use of 'air brakes' is limited and therefore less noisy.
* There's an ongoing debate for years to close Stockholm Bromma Airport. (similar to what's happening with Antwerp Airport). The Green Party has plans to convert Bromma into a park and build houses.

Anyone with more insights on this? What are those air brakes actually?

Could this mean the end of Stockholm Bromma operations in favour of Stockholm Arlanda? Or would Brussels Airlines rather try to squeeze in a Bombardier Q400 on this route?

[crew1990]

What I know about Bromma with Brussels Airlines is that when we are taking off, the aircraft goes to the begin of the runway, put the break to be sure the aircraft doesn't move. Then the full trust is applied and the break realeased. This practise is only applied in Bromma in the SN network but I don't think this is more noisy than a normal take off.

[Avroflyer]

The airbrake on the avro are those 2 doors under the tail of the aircraft that open on final approach or in order to reduce speed...

Possible the noise they are referring to is the noise caused by the air resistance generated when using the airbrake.

As for the future of BMA ops I doubt the SN avros will be banned however SN has to find another solution anyway because the avros will be gone within the coming years and if I'm not mistaken the Airbusses can't land there

[crew1990]

Actually I see only two solutions possible, going with a wet leased to Bromma, for example Flybe or why not Malmo Aviation as they already have a base there. Or changing of airport and going to Stockolm Arlanda which is for me less convenient, very big airport with long walking distance, very far from the city.

[SabenaForever]

What I know about Bromma with Brussels Airlines is that when we are taking off, the aircraft goes to the begin of the runway, put the break to be sure the aircraft doesn't move. Then the full trust is applied and the break realeased. This practise is only applied in Bromma in the SN network but I don't think this is more noisy than a normal take off.

At Florence also... I experienced it this summer...

[Avroflyer]

Actually I see only two solutions possible, going with a wet leased to Bromma, for example Flybe or why not Malmo Aviation as they already have a base there. Or changing of airport and going to Stockolm Arlanda which is for me less convenient, very big airport with long walking distance, very far from the city.

Indeed 2 plausible solutions however BMA on Q400 would make for a rather long flight time so in fact you keep the advantage of the city airport however I think BMA is a bit too far to operate on Q400...

On the other hand a codeshare with Malmö aviaton would be very interesting as a solution indeed and perhaps even more suited than putting BMA on a Q400

[Flanker2]

To answer the technical aspect:

On the Avro RJ, the tail cone opens up to act as air brake.
It allows pilots to come in for an approach with more drag and resulting higher thrust setting.

When the thrust is taken out during the landing touchdown, the airbrakes help the aircraft slow down faster, but that's not the main reason for deploying on approach, as you can also deploy on touchdown.

The aim of deployed airbrakes on approach is more safety margin through speed stability at lower approach speeds and higher thrust setting. Lower approach speeds are necessary when landing at shorter runways like Broma.
The logic is that at low approach speeds, if the speed starts decreasing it tends to do so in an unstable way (exponential way), so it's harder to recover the loss of speed. Adding drag devices enables to delay this effect to a lower speed, reducing this unstable effect. This is a result of a higher drag and resulting higher thrust setting to keep the same speed, ie faster engine revolutions, which help the engines react faster if you need to rev them up, helping with the speed stability at approach and also eventually if a go-around is initiated.

The airbrakes by themselves barely make any noise, it's just two panels exposed to the airflow.
But the higher thrust setting on the 4 engines makes the aircraft noisier.

[sn26567]

Thanks for the technical explanations, Flanker.

After the Avros are gone at SN, ARN might be the best solution. It is further away from the city centre, but a high speed train link quickly makes up for the difference.

A code share with Malmö wouldn't be recommended : with a 6 - abreast seating their Avros are sardine cans!

[crew1990]

It was just an idea, and why not to lease a Embraer 175 or even 195 to flyby to operate the route it would be fast enough as this is a jet. I really don't see SN to drop Bromma if they are solution to stay there.

[lumumba]

Or they keep 2 Avro's in there fleet...

[KriVa]

While not unthinkable, that would be counterproductive and very expensive. Such a small sublet of an already rather expensive aircraft by modern standards, would not make sense.
A wet-lease would make a lot more sense.

[crew1990]

Or they keep 2 Avro's in there fleet...

They can't in the long term the Avro will have to leave the fleet and as the Avro's are not in production anymore they can't be replaced by newer one.

[RoMax]

SN never made a secret of it that they will wet-lease everything smaller than the A320-series once all Avro's are gone, so expect some more in the style of BMI and FlyBe (also up to 100 seaters).

[crew1990]

SN never made a secret of it that they will wet-lease everything smaller than the A320-series once all Avro's are gone, so expect some more in the style of BMI and FlyBe (also up to 100 seaters).

Actually, what i'm thinking is that all the route now operated with the Avro's exepted Bromma, Florence, Strasbourg, Birmingham will be gradually replaced with A319/A320, the smaller destination will be with wet leased aircraft, and then all the new destination like Belfast, Linz, Nantes, Nuremberg (If sn got the slot) would then be operated with wet leased aircraft too. When the wet leased aircraft fleet would grow to 10/12 aircraft SN could then have her own regional fleet as it would make sense at this moment let's say around 2020.

[Passenger]

Thanks for the technical explanations, Flanker.

Thanks Wikipedia...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_brake_(aeronautics)


I'm a bit surprised that a RJ100 has a noise problem. It was baptised "the whisperjet", and when DAT used them at Antwerp Airport, even the anti-airport committees were happy with that fluisterjet.

[jan_olieslagers]

@crew1990: sed -e 's/break/brake/g'
The English language is full of false friends.

[veldmuis]

BTW, Swiss (also LH-Group owned) is replacing its Avros with Bombardier CS jets (also 2+3 seats, plus short runway & steep descent capable). For them, the challenging LCY airport will be their first CS destination. So maybe an idea for SN with Bromma, Florence, etc.

[jan_olieslagers]

I'm a bit surprised that a RJ100 has a noise problem. It was baptised "the whisperjet"

How long ago is that? Intolerance has grown a lot, since, for many things and for many people.

[crew1990]

BTW, Swiss (also LH-Group owned) is replacing its Avros with Bombardier CS jets (also 2+3 seats, plus short runway & steep descent capable). For them, the challenging LCY airport will be their first CS destination. So maybe an idea for SN with Bromma, Florence, etc.

Florence won't be a big problem, it's possible to land there with a A319 under certain condition

[Pocahontas]

@Flanker2 Approach speeds depend on the landing weight, the landing config. (amount of flaps) and gusts. On the Avro also an increment is required when icing conditions prevail. It has nothing to do with runway length.
We land in Bromma as we land anywhere else.

Regards