Move Brussels Airport to a new place (ask the NIMBY's)

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Passenger
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Move Brussels Airport to a new place (ask the NIMBY's)

Post by Passenger » 12 Jun 2015, 14:14

Source : Flemish public tv VRT - Deredactie.be:

"...Twaalf actiegroepen tegen vliegtuiglawaai rond Brussels Airport eisen een objectieve en onafhankelijke studie naar een mogelijke verhuizing van de luchthaven naar een nieuwe locatie, in een veel minder dichtbevolkt gebied. De actiegroepen verwezen hierbij naar de zware problemen die de luchthaven momenteel stelt op vlak van volksgezondheid en luchtvervuiling. De actiegroepen eisten dat de luchthaven onmiddellijk de uren van het nachtelijk regime beperkt van 23 tot 6 uur naar 22 tot 7 uur. De nacht moet dus worden uitgebreid. Bovendien moeten nog voor 13 juni 2016, wanneer een nieuwe EU-regeling van kracht wordt, die de mogelijkheden van overheden om in te grijpen in luchthavens drastisch beperkt, de nachtvluchten worden afgeschaft. Het aantal dagbewegingen moet tegen 2018 beperkt worden tot 220.000. Op korte termijn dienen ook een aantal activiteiten naar regionale luchthavens te worden verplaatst, klinkt het..."

Interview: see
http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/binnenland/1.2365514

During a press conference, twelve anti Brussels Airport groups want that the government orders (and pays) a study to confirm their own findings that Brussels Airport can be moved to "a region with far less inhabitants". Meanwhile, they want an immediate change of "night hours" from 23-06 into 22-07, and a full night curfew 22-07 before 13th June 2016. The action groups demand a meeting with the prime minister and the minister for Transport, and they will then reveal the location(s) they have in mind for the new airport.

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Atlantis
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Re: Move Brussels Airport to a new place (ask the Nimbies)

Post by Atlantis » 12 Jun 2015, 14:38

Yeah, they had to say something. It was a while ago, hahahaha ;)

Replacing the airport is totally not possible in Belgium because of it's vere close density and to transfer more activities to local airports is making it even worser because then you have over the whole region of Belgium noises and pollution and so on.

To close to airport during the night. Come on, in what kind of a year are they living. It's totally not possible. A limit like it is now, ok but a total closure is not possible.

Besides. With NATO, multinationals,etc in Brussels, they will not allow this and we simply cannot afford to move THE international airport of Beglium to an other place. Who will pay? Exact: we. Thanks to the NIMBIES.

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RoMax
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Re: Move Brussels Airport to a new place (ask the Nimbies)

Post by RoMax » 12 Jun 2015, 14:42

OMG... do they remember the days of Sabena with in 2000 over 350,000 movements of which much more during the night and with much noisier aircraft?

Shorter days, no night flights, limit of 220,000 movements (in comparison, last year there were over 230 thousand, but not sure how many of them night flights and between 22h and 23h and between 06h and 07h), and even moving the airport... well with such crazy demands at least I'm sure even politicians will not be so stupid to impose such things on BRU.

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Atlantis
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Re: Move Brussels Airport to a new place (ask the Nimbies)

Post by Atlantis » 12 Jun 2015, 14:49

Yeah, I don't know what kind of pills they took, but for sure, today they forgot them

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sn26567
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Re: Move Brussels Airport to a new place (ask the Nimbies)

Post by sn26567 » 12 Jun 2015, 14:58

Most of those people bought their house knowing that it was close to an airport. Moreover, the noise has considerably been lowered with new engines and new airplane designs and with a strong reduction in the number of p^lanes and especially night flights. They should not be allowed to complain.

And now, I'm curious to know what kind of alternatives they would propose. There aren't that many possibilities at a 1 hr distance frop Brussels...
André
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Atlantis
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Re: Move Brussels Airport to a new place (ask the Nimbies)

Post by Atlantis » 12 Jun 2015, 15:01

Here in Belgium the traffic jam and the pollution of that is much more worser then the much more quiet airplanes that are flying now. The airport did everything and is doing everything to be a green airport so also not allowing, or trying, very noisy or old airplanes. And most of them are recent ones.

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Re: Move Brussels Airport to a new place (ask the Nimbies)

Post by Acid-drop » 12 Jun 2015, 15:03

Replacing the airport is totally not possible in Belgium because of it's vere close density and to transfer more activities to local airports is making it even worser because then you have over the whole region of Belgium noises and pollution and so on.
Some existing airports are located in much less dense areas, it's obvious.
But thanks to the belgian complex politics, we can't apply comon sense.
To close to airport during the night. Come on, in what kind of a year are they living. It's totally not possible. A limit like it is now, ok but a total closure is not possible.
It's possible to use some airport that are designed for night flights from the first day.
But thanks to the belgian complex politics, we can't apply comon sense.
Besides. With NATO, multinationals,etc in Brussels, they will not allow this and we simply cannot afford to move THE international airport of Beglium to an other place.
MXP isn't exactly close to Milan. The main airport could be far away and BRU could stay a business airport like LIN.
But thanks to the belgian complex politics, we can't apply comon sense.
Moreover, the noise has considerably been lowered with new engines and new airplane designs and with a strong reduction in the number of p^lanes and especially night flights.
It does make a huge difference indeed... but it will take a few more years. I can tell you it's still noisy around my house...
My messages reflect my personal opinion which may be different than yours. I beleive a forum is made to create a debate so I encourage people to express themselves, the way they want, with the ideas they want. I expect the same understanding in return.

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Re: Move Brussels Airport to a new place (ask the NIMBY's)

Post by sn26567 » 12 Jun 2015, 15:05

Passenger wrote:Source : Flemish public tv VRT - Deredactie.be:

http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/binnenland/1.2365514
deredactie is also published in English and French. Here is the English version:

Twelve action groups against aircraft noise nuisance are demanding an objective independent study into the possibility of moving Brussels Airport from its current location in Zaventem (Flemish Brabant) to a site in a less densely populated area. The action groups point to what they say are the public health and pollution issues the airport’s current location poses.

The groups are also demanding that airport extends it night-time regime by two hours to 10pm to 7am rather than the 11pm to 6am that is currently case. They say also that all night flights this should be ended before 13 June 2016 when a new EU directive that limits the ability of the authorities to limit airports activities comes into force.

The action groups want the number of day movements to be limited to 220,000 by 2018. In the short term they suggest the transfers of some of the airport’s activities to regional airports.

Spokeswoman Peggy Cortois of the action group BUTV says that the situation for those living around the airport has become untenable. Ms Cortois added that it is “a real scandal” that neither Brussels Airport nor the authorities have taken measures to limit the noise nuisance around the airport.

Meanwhile, Josephine Overeem said that Zaventem was “the worst airport in Europe”.

The action groups have joined forces for the first time and sent an open letter to the various authorities (Flemish, Federal…), Brussels Airport and the largest airlines operating out of Zaventem.

They are demanding a meeting with the Federal Transport Minister Jacqueline Galant (Francophone liberal) to discuss the Federal Government’s plans.

The action groups don’t rule out legal if the talk turns out to be fruitless.
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Re: Move Brussels Airport to a new place (ask the Nimbies)

Post by Didymus » 12 Jun 2015, 15:23

Acid-drop wrote:MXP isn't exactly close to Milan. The main airport could be far away and BRU could stay a business airport like LIN.
As I've argued before, that really depends on where you need to be in Milan. MXP provides excellent access to the north of the city and even to Canton Ticino (CH). If I wanted to visit the Expo for instance, I would definitely prefer to arrive in Malpensa rather than Linate.

The Belgian alternatives to BRU (i.e. LGG and CRL) are in no way comparable to Malpensa, in my opinion.

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Re: Move Brussels Airport to a new place (ask the NIMBY's)

Post by Acid-drop » 12 Jun 2015, 15:32

i was more thinking about one of the 2 military airbase in fact.
Beauvechain being the best location in my eyes. Right on the language border and in between 2 large highways.
My messages reflect my personal opinion which may be different than yours. I beleive a forum is made to create a debate so I encourage people to express themselves, the way they want, with the ideas they want. I expect the same understanding in return.

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Re: Move Brussels Airport to a new place (ask the NIMBY's)

Post by Magiktrix » 12 Jun 2015, 15:42

In Montreal they try and it fail. Dorval is still there and Mirabel a ghost airport. And its very similar in distance from city center to airport to what we have in BRU.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montr%C3% ... al_Airport

I dont think Belgium as any money to waste in such a crazy scenario.

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Re: Move Brussels Airport to a new place (ask the Nimbies)

Post by Lysexpat » 12 Jun 2015, 15:53

sn26567 wrote:Most of those people bought their house knowing that it was close to an airport
I agree, we move the airport. As the houses around the old airport wil rise in value, owners will have to pay a 70% tax on this profit. Rents can go up by 50% as well.
This tax will then pay for the new airport.
Sounds like a plan, no? :idea:

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Re: Move Brussels Airport to a new place (ask the NIMBY's)

Post by Passenger » 12 Jun 2015, 16:35

Acid-drop wrote:i was more thinking about one of the 2 military airbase in fact.
Beauvechain being the best location in my eyes. Right on the language border and in between 2 large highways.
Most of the action groups are not located next to the airport, but several miles away. Example: in Leuven/Louvain:
http://AlliantieRegioLeuven.be

With a new airport at Beauvechain, Leuven/Louvain will get more traffic above them then Brussels Airport now gives them. With Beauvechain, Tienen/Tirlemont and Namur/Namen will also get anti-airport groups. And contrary to the others, one cannot say for Tienen and Namur that the airport was there first.

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Re: Move Brussels Airport to a new place (ask the NIMBY's)

Post by Magiktrix » 12 Jun 2015, 17:24

Btw the first traces of an airport in Beauvechain is 1936 ;-)

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Re: Move Brussels Airport to a new place (ask the NIMBY's)

Post by jan_olieslagers » 12 Jun 2015, 17:41

Lysexpat has it totally right.
As the houses around the old airport will rise in value, owners will have to pay a 70% tax on this profit. Rents can go up by 50% as well. This tax will then pay for the new airport.

The EBBR nimbys had better keep quiet, or they might live to regret their big mouths.

It still leaves open where to locate this new airport. As pointed out many times, the nimbies around the suggested new locations will have much better trumps to play.

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Re: Move Brussels Airport to a new place (ask the NIMBY's)

Post by cathay belgium » 12 Jun 2015, 17:55

Hi,

I ask myself did anyone of those complainers looked out of the window by landing or departing brussels airport? Did you see any change of environment over belgium aerospace?
We build houses in a line, aka lintbebouwing, compare to the rest of europe ;)
You want to move the airport of the same size further away IN Belgium?
Near Antwerp? Hasselt? Gent? Mechelen?
Capiche ?
Yeah those airport already exsist, you know?
I call it Dusseldorf, Amsterdam, Paris, some others want to call it Charleroi even Frankfurt...
I would say, you bought your house cheap, you want to live near a big city, live with it and sh.......pa you face :p

Has they ever mentionned hiw many jobs will be gone by then ? and for that little noise?

ah no!

CXB

living near Kleine Brogel AFB ;) ever been in the flightpath of an F16 with lowlevel excercise? yes they do once in a while ? when I wa sstudying it was in June... never heard about an action group here BTW and yeah I' m living in the neighbourhood of a experimental nucleair reactor and a stock of nucleair bombs which where confirmed by the government once haha... nope still no action groups or media over here... every place in belgium has a thing to complain about, dust in antwerp ringland or planes in brussels ....
New types flown 2020 : A321neo,B781
New types planned : E190E2

Passenger
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Re: Move Brussels Airport to a new place (ask the NIMBY's)

Post by Passenger » 12 Jun 2015, 18:16

Passenger wrote:
Acid-drop wrote:i was more thinking about one of the 2 military airbase in fact.
Beauvechain being the best location in my eyes. Right on the language border and in between 2 large highways.
Most of the action groups are not located next to the airport, but several miles away. Example: in Leuven/Louvain:
http://AlliantieRegioLeuven.be

With a new airport at Beauvechain, Leuven/Louvain will get more traffic above them then Brussels Airport now gives them. With Beauvechain, Tienen/Tirlemont and Namur/Namen will also get anti-airport groups. And contrary to the others, one cannot say for Tienen and Namur that the airport was there first.
I have to quote myself. When I replied to "Beauvechain is a possibility", this was only hypothetical, to proof that a new civilian airport there would create exactly the same problems as now exist for Brussels Airport.

I thaught that there would be common sense on this forum that it is in no way possible to move Brussels Airport because the investments that have been made there 1) are on long term, 2) can only serve aviation: the Diabolo, the buildings, parkings, piers, runways, tower,... and 3) are in total far too high to be written off.

And then we haven't discussed that the Navo HQ and the Eurpean Institutions need an airport very closeby.

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Re: Move Brussels Airport to a new place (ask the NIMBY's)

Post by Conti764 » 12 Jun 2015, 20:04

I hope no one is going to honour these fools by talking to them... Let them bark a little bit and ignore whatever they are whinig about...

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Re: Move Brussels Airport to a new place (ask the NIMBY's)

Post by sn26567 » 12 Jun 2015, 20:51

Conti764 wrote:I hope no one is going to honour these fools by talking to them... Let them bark a little bit and ignore whatever they are whinig about...
Too late! Their press conference has made the headlines of all Belgian TV news programmes.
André
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Passenger
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Re: Move Brussels Airport to a new place (ask the NIMBY's)

Post by Passenger » 12 Jun 2015, 21:04

sn26567 wrote:
Conti764 wrote:I hope no one is going to honour these fools by talking to them... Let them bark a little bit and ignore whatever they are whinig about...
Too late! Their press conference has made the headlines of all Belgian TV news programmes.
Indeed. The action groups managed to get quite a lot press reports.

And meanwhile, minister of Transport Galant has already reacted to the move-away of the airport: "no way", she says.
http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/binnenland/1.2365891
(not available in English yet)

Still wondering why the action groups demand the closure of Brussels Airport. They're led by a good client from Brucargo (= Peggy Cortois) who knows fur sure that a closure is absolutely ridiculous. Could that be their strategy: demanding three things, and hoping that one or two will be accepted?

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