ANA from NRT to BRU as from winter season 2015

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brusselsairlinesfan
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Re: ANA from NRT to BRU as from winter season 2015

Post by brusselsairlinesfan »

Hello there,
Still no news regarding the SN / NH codeshare on the BRU - NRT route pls?

airbuske
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Re: ANA from NRT to BRU as from winter season 2015

Post by airbuske »

brusselsairlinesfan wrote:Hello there,
Still no news regarding the SN / NH codeshare on the BRU - NRT route pls?
Brussels Airlines will not codeshare with NH. It has someting to do with the russian overflight rights.
Best regards,

Airbuske

Passenger
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Re: ANA from NRT to BRU as from winter season 2015

Post by Passenger »

Perhaps a bit off topic: Japan Airlines ends Narita-Paris CDG between 12 Jan 2016 and 29 Jan 2016 because of "dramatic drop in bookings since the attacks in Paris". JAL continues Haneda-Paris, though they also note -40% there.

Source: Luchtvaartnieuws.nl
http://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/c ... ita-parijs

SN501
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Joined: 15 May 2015, 12:24

Re: ANA from NRT to BRU as from winter season 2015

Post by SN501 »

Flanker2 wrote:How is NH doing on this route?
I'm looking for good prices to go to Japan next year. From BRU, flights via FRA or MUC (LH+LH or LH+NH) are always cheaper than the direct flight. Maybe the sign that reservations on NH231/232 are numerous and prices can be increased?

Flanker2
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Re: ANA from NRT to BRU as from winter season 2015

Post by Flanker2 »

Hi Passeneger, this one got hidden by the page switch.
Flanker2 wrote:How is NH doing on this route?

JL has suspended their CDG-NRT flights, citing a 60% drop in traffic to Paris following the terrorist attacks, with no improvement in sight.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/1 ... nLPL0rhDIV
JAL suspending Paris-Narita flights after terrorist attacks hurt demand
DEC 16, 2015
ARTICLE HISTORY
Japan Airlines will suspend flights between Paris and Narita International Airport next month after business slumped in the wake of the deadly Nov. 13 attacks in the French capital.

JAL currently operates one round trip a day between Paris and Narita.

Many group tours using the JAL route were canceled after the terror attacks, and the seat occupancy rate fell to about 40 percent from some 80 percent as a result.

The carrier believes that demand will not recover any time soon.

“The airline will suspend flights between Paris and Narita from Jan. 12 through Feb. 29 except for several days,” a spokesman said. “(We) will decide whether to resume the Paris-Narita flights in March after observing the situation next year,” he said.

The flights for which reservations for large group tours were made will go ahead as scheduled.

JAL will concentrate on flights between Paris and Tokyo’s Haneda airport, which have a higher occupancy than the Narita flights at about 60 percent on average, the spokesman said.

The carrier runs one round-trip flight a day between Haneda and Paris.
I think that the attacks have contributed, but I think that NH's direct route to BRU also takes a lot of traffic away from JL.

I was booked on a ZYR-CDG-NRT itinerary in February and received a call from them to rebook me.
I'm afraid that they will lose what's left of the BRU-TYO traffic as the remaining option is a very inconvenient 5 hour lay-over between the TGV and the HND flight.
I decided to avoid this option and asked to be rebooked on a flight via LHR.

Flanker2
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Re: ANA from NRT to BRU as from winter season 2015

Post by Flanker2 »

SN 501 keep an eye on the superfares topic, as I post finds there regularily for this route.
direct flights are always more expensive, it's not very indicaative of how a route is doing.

I think that NH will be relatively immune as business pax are the main market on the direct flight and they won't stop travelling.

Airbuske, NH's ceo hinted that they are working very hard to make the codeshare work.

brabel
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Joined: 17 Jun 2015, 10:51

Re: ANA from NRT to BRU as from winter season 2015

Post by brabel »

Flanker2 wrote:SN 501 keep an eye on the superfares topic, as I post finds there regularily for this route.
direct flights are always more expensive, it's not very indicaative of how a route is doing.
where can i find these superfares?

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Established02
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Re: ANA from NRT to BRU as from winter season 2015

Post by Established02 »

brabel wrote:where can i find these superfares?
The "let us know Superfares" Topic !
https://www.aviation24.be/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=47780

Flanker2
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Re: ANA from NRT to BRU as from winter season 2015

Post by Flanker2 »

Hln.be is mentionning the DL BRU-ATL suspension but also rumours of a possible suspension of the NH BRU-NRT route.

Zo valt in de wandelgangen al te horen dat ook de Japanse airline ANA overweegt zich terug te trekken. Bange toeristen uit Japan hebben weinig zin in Brussel. Grote spelers die afhaken: het is slechte reclame. "We doen ons best om iedereen in de komende weken te accommoderen, elkeen iets te geven", aldus Feist. "Evenwicht is nodig. Ze moeten weten dat ook zij belangrijk zijn, dat Brussels Airport niet rond één maatschappij draait."
http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/36484/Aanslage ... nnen.dhtml

I think that NH will seriously reevaluate the route, and that BRU will have to make serious concessions to keep the route. NH will lose whatever was left of the ex-Japan tourist base, and temporrily quite some business traffic from Japan. However, I don't see a suspension happening soon.
Japanese companies take a lot of time to make decisions, but they don't easily abandon an operation once they take that decision. I hope that BRU will be very accommodating towards NH and take the initiative of offfering them a big concession.

Currently in Japan the reopening of BRU has been a news item on Saturday and Sunday. They even showed footage of the new temporary facilities in the tents and metionned NH's temporary route suspension until April 10th.

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Conti764
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Re: ANA from NRT to BRU as from winter season 2015

Post by Conti764 »

Not only ANA, I think BRU has a lot to do to either keep companies flying or get new routes once the dust has settled...

LJ
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Re: ANA from NRT to BRU as from winter season 2015

Post by LJ »

Flanker2 wrote:Japanese companies take a lot of time to make decisions, but they don't easily abandon an operation once they take that decision. I hope that BRU will be very accommodating towards NH and take the initiative of offfering them a big concession.
This doens't take Japanese airlines to take quick decisions. JAL was very quick in reducing CDG after the attacks in Paris.
Conti764 wrote:Not only ANA, I think BRU has a lot to do to either keep companies flying or get new routes once the dust has settled...
It's not only the airlines, but the passengers that are the problem. The airlines won't come back if the passengers aren't there. Ask Air France about the consequences of the attacks and you'll know it will take a long time before it will be back as usual. The Japanese market is highly sensitive to these kind of attacks. Moreover, it wouldn't surprise me if many Japanese companies have a negative travel advisory for Brussels.

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RoMax
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Re: ANA from NRT to BRU as from winter season 2015

Post by RoMax »

It depends per 'event', but usually after 3 months most of the impact is disappearing. Of course you have exceptions, but don't expect the impact on demand to last for more than half a year for example.

LJ
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Re: ANA from NRT to BRU as from winter season 2015

Post by LJ »

RoMax wrote:It depends per 'event', but usually after 3 months most of the impact is disappearing. Of course you have exceptions, but don't expect the impact on demand to last for more than half a year for example.
I would usually agree, but hotels and Air France still report lower bookings to Paris (and especially from Japan). To be honest, I woouldn't be surprised to see cuts on Japan - Europe flights (OS has already announced it wil cut VIE-NRT).

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RoMax
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Re: ANA from NRT to BRU as from winter season 2015

Post by RoMax »

Japan is a sensitive market yes, at least the leisure market and I doubt ANA is that much relying on Japanese tourists coming to Belgium. Of course it's part of the mix, but it will not make it break that route. Paris is a different story, France is a very popular destination for Japanese tourists and that market has been hit hard.

However in general there is hardly any impact anymore from the Paris attacks, I rather feel like AF-KL is using it as an excuse...

Flanker2
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Re: ANA from NRT to BRU as from winter season 2015

Post by Flanker2 »

ANA resumes flights to/from Brussels Airport

Information as of 10:00JST,April 7th,2016.

Due to the terrorist attacks which took place at Brussels Airport on March 22, ANA has suspended its flights to/from Brussels Airport until April 10.
Brussels Airport has reopened as of April 3, and ANA will resume its flights as of April 11.
The details of the resumed flights, suspended flights and extra flights, which have been scheduled due to the suspension, are as follows:

1. Resumed Flights
(1) Period
From April 11, 2016
(2) Routes and Flights (Local Time)
ANA 231 Tokyo/Narita 11:00 - Brussels 15:50
ANA232 Brussels 21:20 - Tokyo/Narita 15:30+1
(3) Please refer to here for further information about Brussels Airport.

2. Suspended Flights
(1) Period
March 22 - April 10
(2) Routes and Flights
ANA231 From Tokyo Narita - To Brussels
ANA232 From Brussels - To Tokyo Narita
*ANA231 on March 22 has been diverted to Dusseldorf.
*No commission required for refund and one change to ANA flights.

3. Extra Flights
(1) Period
April 8 - April 10
(2) Routes and Flights (Local Time)
ANA1901 From Tokyo Narita 09:30 - To Dusseldorf 14:30
*Ticket for above suspension flights can be used for these flights.

Please refer to here for more information about ANA tickets with bookings to/from Brussels airport.

We apologize for any inconvenience.
http://www.ana.co.jp/asw/topinfo/info_w ... ool_flag=1

Charlie Roy
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Re: ANA from NRT to BRU as from winter season 2015

Post by Charlie Roy »

Fall in Japanese tourists has been sharp since the attacks:
http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/regio ... /1.2622559

(No flights didn't help of course, but Japanese travel agents recommend Japanese stay in small area around the Grand' Place).

Charlie Roy
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Re: ANA from NRT to BRU as from winter season 2015

Post by Charlie Roy »


Flanker2
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Re: ANA from NRT to BRU as from winter season 2015

Post by Flanker2 »

I can share this now because it's passed: ironically, when Brussels was in lockdown following the Paris attacks, NH's crews were moved from a hotel in the city to the Sheraton in BRU, and would have lunch in the airport's restaurants on the top floor, which required walking by the exact area that was hit during the BRU attacks.

The "safe zone" in the above article looks like the perfect target area for IS...
I guess that they are trying to avoid abductions, which are more likely outside this area indeed.

I travelled on JL's CDG-HND flights last week and they were packed in all classes.
There was only one tour group though and they were heading out of Paris to Mont Saint Michel. Most looked like business men/women, VFR and individuals travelling on probably cheap travel agency package deals.
As I landed the other day, a police convoy was parked visibly in front of the JL B77W with 4 heavily armed police facing the jetway to create a sense of security for the pax, EL AL style. I wonder if we were escorted to the stand by the convoy as we sat on the taxiway for quite a while after landing.

Also at the gate, 3 or 4 heavily armed policemen were looking at passengers, probably to give them a sense of security.


I think that Belgium should also pull the stops on this one and organise armed "undercover" police escorts for Japanese group tours, a bit like visible air marshalls. This will enable a faster return of the Japanese tour groups.
This way they can hit many birds with one stone: security of the Japanese groups at the same time as surveillance of popular tourist spots.

Obviously, police escorts at the airport would also be a nice gesture.

brusselsairlinesfan
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Re: ANA from NRT to BRU as from winter season 2015

Post by brusselsairlinesfan »

How are the BRU - NRT flights doing in terms of PAX numbers? Still no news about a possible codeshare with SN?

Flanker3
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Re: ANA from NRT to BRU as from winter season 2015

Post by Flanker3 »

As reported in the BRU routes topic, ANA will upgrade BRU-NRT to B789 effective October 28th 2018 offering additional seats as follows:
2 x J, 44 x Y.
I have anticipated such a move previously, it's a pitty the attacks probably delayed it by a year or two.
However at present I was expecting them to upgrade to a B77W as they have a handful on order, to increase premium cabin capacity. We might have to wait for next summer or the summer after that to see that happen.
After all, it should be noted that ANA is upgauging at the start of the winter schedule, which is not very typical for BRU.
In any case I think that we won't have to wait too long to see such an upgrade.

This is a route that I predicted would be very succesful and it apparently is.

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