Germanwings A320 crash in France

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Re: Germanwings A320 crash in France

Post by sn26567 » 23 Apr 2015, 18:06

French BEA investigators will conduct a flight with an Airbus A320 to validate sounds picked up by the cockpit voice recorder of the Germanwings aircraft that crashed in the French Alps on 24 March.

The aim is not to simulate events on board that aircraft before it crashed, says BEA. Instead, the investigators want to ensure that the sounds of selector knobs and switches being used – as recorded by the CVR on the Germanwings flight – can be precisely attributed to specific controls in the cockpit.

This will require flying the aircraft at altitudes and speeds similar to those of the Germanwings A320 to create a representative audio atmosphere.

The CVR picked up sounds of switches and knobs being operated during the aircraft's descent from cruising altitude. Some of these sounds can be correlated to flight-parameter changes on the flight data recorder (FDR), but it is not possible to be definitive for all of them, the authority indicates.

Full article from Flight Global: http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... ta-411534/
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Re: Germanwings A320 crash in France

Post by sn26567 » 30 Apr 2015, 16:16

Germanwings name to be retired

The Lufthansa short-haul subsidiary will take on the new branding of Eurowings this autumn. This move was scheduled to occur later, but in the aftermath of the crash of the A320 in the Alps, the move will be accelerated. All Germanwings aircraft will soon fly under the Eurowings colours.
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Re: Germanwings A320 crash in France

Post by Passenger » 06 May 2015, 13:58

A relevant update is available: the provisional French report (BEA):

pdf 2 Mb:
http://www.bea.aero/docspa/2015/d-px150 ... 324.en.pdf

in brief:
http://avherald.com/h?article=483a5651/015&opt=0

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Re: Germanwings A320 crash in France

Post by sn26567 » 06 May 2015, 15:37

The only apparently new fact is that the co-pilot already tried an unauthorised manoeuvre during the outgoing flight from Düsseldorf to Barcelona, when the pilot left the cockpit. He practised entering 100-ft setting on the autopilot no less than 5 times, and this went unnoticed on radar because the plane was already descending. It is unknown why he changed his mind.

At the end of his deadly manoeuvre, the co-pilot seemed to have some remorse: he pushed the side-stick just before crash, but not firmly enough to disengage the autopilot under whose control the jet remained until the impact.
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Re: Germanwings A320 crash in France

Post by airtrainer » 06 May 2015, 15:51

I can imagine the reaction of the people who were on that previous flight when they will see that news :(

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Re: Germanwings A320 crash in France

Post by Passenger » 08 Jun 2015, 17:21

IATA's CEO interviews:

Carsten Spohr - the Germanwings tragedy and the way forward for Lufthansa

http://airlines.iata.org/ceo-interviews ... -lufthansa

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Re: Germanwings A320 crash in France

Post by sn26567 » 12 Jun 2015, 16:09

Yesterday, the prosecutor of Marseilles declared to the press that the Germanwings copilot had consulted with 41 (!) medical doctors in the past five years. Many of the doctors declared him unfit to fly! Three investigators will continue the inquiry.
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Re: Germanwings A320 crash in France

Post by Homo Aeroportus » 12 Jun 2015, 16:19

sn26567 wrote:Yesterday, the prosecutor of Marseilles declared to the press ....
Shameful !

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Re: Germanwings A320 crash in France

Post by convair » 12 Jun 2015, 16:26

Homo Aeroportus wrote:
sn26567 wrote:Yesterday, the prosecutor of Marseilles declared to the press ....
Shameful !

H.A.
I agree. The public now knows enough about him. No use to continue the mediatic trial of a dead man.

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Re: Germanwings A320 crash in France

Post by airazurxtror » 30 Jun 2015, 16:41

A lawyer for relatives of people killed in the Germanwings crash in March says parent company Lufthansa has made a compensation offer.
The company is offering 25,000 euros in compensation per passenger, plus payments of 10,000 euros each to immediate relatives. He described that as “completely inadequate.”
IF IT AIN'T BOEING, I'M NOT GOING.

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Re: Germanwings A320 crash in France

Post by saratoga » 30 Jun 2015, 18:14

I would call it an insult.

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Re: Germanwings A320 crash in France

Post by Passenger » 30 Jun 2015, 19:52

airazurxtror wrote:A lawyer for relatives of people killed in the Germanwings crash in March says parent company Lufthansa has made a compensation offer. The company is offering 25,000 euros in compensation per passenger, plus payments of 10,000 euros each to immediate relatives. He described that as “completely inadequate.”
I don't believe this story:

1. In the original source for this story (Express.de) there is just one statement from one lawyer and without reply from Lufthansa:
http://www.express.de/politik-wirtschaf ... 76926.html

2. Lufthansa's lawyers know that the Montreal Convention applies. In brief: the strict minimum indemnity for crash victims is 142.000 Euro (113.000 "SDR"), and this has to be paid in all cases, unless Lufthansa can proof a manufacturer error (excluded in this case). If the court holds Lufthansa liable, the indemnity amount that civil courts will allow, is nearly unlimited.

3. Lufthansa has an insurance for crashes, and those insurance companies take over the negotiations with the relatives' lawyers.

- -

The article reports that the 25.000 Euro (+ 10.000 for each relative) is "Schmerzensgeld". Even added to the 50.000 already paid, it still is far too less then the minimal legal indemnity of 142.000 Euro. If this would be the "final offer" indeed (repeat: it isn't), Lufthansa knows that every basic court will reject it, probably resulting a verdict in the opposite way.

express.de didn't found it necessary to contact Lufthansa, but my guess is that this is an additional advance towards the 142.000 Euro, or indeed "Schmerzensgeld": "we are very sorry".

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Re: Germanwings A320 crash in France

Post by sn26567 » 01 Jul 2015, 11:59

Lufthansa is indeed doing much more:

Lufthansa and Germanwings assuming the long-term social care for the relatives of the victims of flight 4U9525

https://www.aviation24.be/airlines_press_r ... ht-4u9525/
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Re: Germanwings A320 crash in France

Post by sn26567 » 17 Jul 2015, 13:12

Today the EASA report was released by the European Commission and it contains a number of recommendations:
  • The principle of ‘two persons in the cockpit at all time’ should be maintained.
  • Pilots should undergo a psychological evaluation before entering airline service.
  • Airlines should run a random drugs and alcohol programme.
  • Robust programme for oversight of aeromedical examiners should be established.
  • A European aeromedical data repository should be created.
  • Pilot support systems should be implemented within airlines.
https://www.aviation24.be/airlines_press_r ... -incident/
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Re: Germanwings A320 crash in France

Post by airazurxtror » 09 Aug 2015, 18:22

The families of passengers killed in the Germanwings crash will take legal action against Lufthansa in the United States after rejecting the carrier's compensation offer as inadequate, Bild am Sonntag said, citing the families' lawyer.

Germanwings, a unit of Lufthansa, in June offered 25,000 euros per victim for the pain and suffering caused by the March 24 crash that killed all 150 onboard. The 25,000-euro offer is on top of 50,000 euros per passenger already paid as immediate financial assistance to relatives.

United States law provides for large payouts for emotional damages, unlike German law. A low six-digit amount would be adequate compensation, Elmar Giemulla, a lawyer representing some of the victims said last month.

"We are preparing a lawsuit in the United States and see good chances for a place of jurisdiction there," the newspaper Bild am Sonntag quoted Giemulla as saying. The planned legal action will aim to find out why co-pilot Andreas Lubitz, who had previously suffered from depression, was allowed to fly, Giemulla said.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/08/0 ... 09?rpc=401
IF IT AIN'T BOEING, I'M NOT GOING.

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Re: Germanwings A320 crash in France

Post by Passenger » 09 Aug 2015, 19:16

airazurxtror wrote:The families of passengers killed in the Germanwings crash will take legal action against Lufthansa in the United States after rejecting the carrier's compensation offer as inadequate, Bild am Sonntag said, citing the families' lawyer. Germanwings, a unit of Lufthansa, in June offered 25,000 euros per victim for the pain and suffering caused by the March 24 crash that killed all 150 onboard. The 25,000-euro offer is on top of 50,000 euros per passenger already paid as immediate financial assistance to relatives.
This is not true. Lufthansa has stated several times that the 25.000 + 50.000 already paid are deposits and not the settlement.
airazurxtror wrote:United States law provides for large payouts for emotional damages, unlike German law. A low six-digit amount would be adequate compensation, Elmar Giemulla, a lawyer representing some of the victims said last month. "We are preparing a lawsuit in the United States and see good chances for a place of jurisdiction there," the newspaper Bild am Sonntag quoted Giemulla as saying. The planned legal action will aim to find out why co-pilot Andreas Lubitz, who had previously suffered from depression, was allowed to fly, Giemulla said.
Indeed, the USA provides large payouts for emotional damages - example for lung cancer, caused by a smoke addiction. However, the passengers had a contract with a German airline, which means that a German court has to decide about German legislation, European legislation and international treaties and conventions (if accepted by Germany).

Lufthansa's lawyers know that the Montreal Convention applies. In brief: the strict minimum indemnity for crash victims is 142.000 Euro (113.000 "SDR"), and this has to be paid in all cases, unless Lufthansa can proof a manufacturer error (excluded in this case). If the court holds Lufthansa liable, the indemnity amount that civil courts will allow, is nearly unlimited. That's why airlines pay extremely huge insurance fees.

My conclusion: it's a shame how this lawyers tries to get new clients by promising relatives a huge payout by a US court, knowing very well that Lufthansa will not accept the competence of that court.

I don't know why Lufthansa hasn't paid out the full 142.000 Euro yet - could be that the payout amounts and dates are settled by an annex to the Montreal Convention. I'm sure Bild knows.

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Re: Germanwings A320 crash in France

Post by airazurxtror » 09 Aug 2015, 19:59

People hire lawyers to try and get what they think is their due. Nothing scandalous there.
Lufthansa and its insurers try to get away as cheaply as possible. Quite usual if not very nice.
If a US court finds itself to be competent, Lufthansa will have to comply - if not, and if condemned, Lufthansa could well see its aircraft impounded after landing in the USA.
IF IT AIN'T BOEING, I'M NOT GOING.

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Re: Germanwings A320 crash in France

Post by crew1990 » 09 Aug 2015, 20:26

What the US have to do with it, it was a flight between Spain and Germany...

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Re: Germanwings A320 crash in France

Post by Passenger » 09 Aug 2015, 20:47

airazurxtror wrote:People hire lawyers to try and get what they think is their due. Nothing scandalous there.
This is not "people hire lawyers". This is "lawyer hunts for new clients (already client with another firm for the case) with false promises". Given the fact that lawyer abuses grief, it is a scandal.
airazurxtror wrote:Lufthansa and its insurers try to get away as cheaply as possible. Quite usual if not very nice.
This is absolutely untrue. Lufthansa and its insurers will pay what they have pay. They are negociating the amount with the victims' lawyers, and if they should disagree (which I doubt), a court will have to decide. And more important: Lufthansa and Karsten Spohr have apologized several times ànd sincerely. That contradicts with your statement.
airazurxtror wrote:If a US court finds itself to be competent, Lufthansa will have to comply - if not, and if condemned, Lufthansa could well see its aircraft impounded after landing in the USA.
Sure. Indeed. Absolutely true. No doubt. A US court that is competent for a case of German relatives against a German airline, based upon a contract under German law, for a flight in Europe???

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Re: Germanwings A320 crash in France

Post by airazurxtror » 09 Aug 2015, 21:34

crew1990 wrote:What the US have to do with it, it was a flight between Spain and Germany...
There were Americans on board - at least three, acccording to
http://www.lesechos.fr/25/03/2015/lesec ... rcredi.htm#
IF IT AIN'T BOEING, I'M NOT GOING.

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