BRU Winter 2015/2016: latest news, routes, airlines

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crew1990
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Re: BRU Winter 2015/2016: latest news, routes, airlines

Post by crew1990 » 10 Jun 2015, 20:14

For this summer there are 2 days during the week with 8 departure, (on Friday and on Sunday) so yes they can. Also with the time table here above they can just adapt it, there are 48 weekly flight, they can put 7 days with 7 flight and one with 6.

OO-ITR
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Re: BRU Winter 2015/2016: latest news, routes, airlines

Post by OO-ITR » 11 Jun 2015, 05:56

RoMax wrote:
OO-ITR wrote:What I find strange is that, if SN is considered to be the African specialist for the LH group, why isn't NBO transferred to SN then? Like it was done /NSI-DLA....
Because NBO is a very competitive market, SN did ok on it but not more. But now the Kenyan economy is not doing well, tourism is performing badly and competition from the Gulf and TK is increasing. NBO still has potential, but needs a larger feeding network and a strong brand. ACC on the other hand is a good fit to strengthen SN's West-African network. With equal capacity, this route-swap makes a lot of sense.

SN might be the Africa specialist, that doesn't mean they are the best fit for all routes. SN has never been that strong in Eastern Africa either.
Still, why is LH starting up this route then? LH took over SN for their expertise in Africa...so what about this expertise now? OK it is East Africa, yet it is still Africa...
Let's not forget they still have three other stations in East Africa. Should they leave them to Swiss/LH too???

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RoMax
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Re: BRU Winter 2015/2016: latest news, routes, airlines

Post by RoMax » 11 Jun 2015, 07:29

OO-ITR wrote: Still, why is LH starting up this route then? LH took over SN for their expertise in Africa...so what about this expertise now? OK it is East Africa, yet it is still Africa...
Let's not forget they still have three other stations in East Africa. Should they leave them to Swiss/LH too???
As I said, being the Africa specialist does not mean the best operator for each route. If you read my post again you would see why NBO is taken over by LH. There still is potential, but it's a difficult market,especially now. But with the strong brand and especially the much larger feeding network from FRA, LH can make much more out of it. That has nothing to do with taking away business from SN, but optimising a network on a group level.

And no KGL, EBB and BJM shouldn't be taken over, simply because SN does quite well here and has the potential in-house. Again if I say SN is not strong on Eastern-Africa, that doesn't mean the whole region. That means that except for the small Rwanda, Uganda and Burundi region SN doesn't have a good penetration in that part of Africa. Even LH is better established in Eastern-Africa as a whole and has always been.

Again, for me it makes perfect sense that LH stops ACC and transfers it to SN and the other way around with NBO.

SFM
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Re: BRU Winter 2015/2016: latest news, routes, airlines

Post by SFM » 11 Jun 2015, 08:53

RoMax wrote: Again, for me it makes perfect sense that LH stops ACC and transfers it to SN and the other way around with NBO.
Mind you, I have not seen any official confirmation that LH will drop ACC. (this question has been asked before in this topic).
If I try to book a flight to ACC in November or December via the LH website, I still get direct LH flights...
I sure hope that it's just a matter of time before they update their booking system.
Otherwise, should LH keep flying to ACC, I don't see SN making any profit on that route (same as a few years ago, when they tried operating it in parallel with the LH flights, that plan was quickly abandoned).

asianlao02
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Re: BRU Winter 2015/2016: latest news, routes, airlines

Post by asianlao02 » 11 Jun 2015, 09:09

Ten European cities ask Emirates to fly trans-atlantic
http://gulfnews.com/business/aviation/t ... -1.1532302
Maybe us? ;)

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sn26567
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Re: BRU Winter 2015/2016: latest news, routes, airlines

Post by sn26567 » 11 Jun 2015, 11:52

Certainly not. The US is sufficiently served from BRU. I was rather thinking of Athens.
André
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rwandan-flyer
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Re: BRU Winter 2015/2016: latest news, routes, airlines

Post by rwandan-flyer » 11 Jun 2015, 12:02

Yes it would (unfortunately) make sense. Mainly because it don't see SN feeling an entire A332 only with Kigali pax. So this is the end of the night stop in Entebbe then :-(
I think it's more likely that they'll link EBB and BJM to KGL in the same way:
BRU-KGL-EBB-KGL-BRU
BRU-KGL-BJM-KGL-BRU
From 26 Oct 2015.

BRU-KGL-EBB-BRU 3 times a week
BRU-BJM-KGL-BRU 2 times a week

However SN has said : "From this winter season, for the first time in its history, Brussels Airlines will offer direct flights on both the outbound and the inbound flights between Brussels and the Rwandan capital Kigali."

http://press.brusselsairlines.com/bruss ... est-africa#

I think that some of SN flights to Kigali will be operated non stop, like KLM is doing with its Entebbe service. My feelings

BRU-BJM-EBB-BRU 2 times a week

BRU-KGL-EBB-BRU 2 times a week

BRU-KGL-BRU 3 times a week

asianlao02
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Re: BRU Winter 2015/2016: latest news, routes, airlines

Post by asianlao02 » 11 Jun 2015, 12:08

sn26567 wrote:
Certainly not. The US is sufficiently served from BRU. I was rather thinking of Athens.
Why not? LAX,houston,SFO are missing.... :)

SFM
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Re: BRU Winter 2015/2016: latest news, routes, airlines

Post by SFM » 11 Jun 2015, 12:16

rwandan-flyer wrote: However SN has said : "From this winter season, for the first time in its history, Brussels Airlines will offer direct flights on both the outbound and the inbound flights between Brussels and the Rwandan capital Kigali."

http://press.brusselsairlines.com/bruss ... est-africa#

I think that some of SN flights to Kigali will be operated non stop, like KLM is doing with its Entebbe service. My feelings

BRU-BJM-EBB-BRU 2 times a week

BRU-KGL-EBB-BRU 2 times a week

BRU-KGL-BRU 3 times a week
Now that I read it again, I see that you can interpret this in different ways. "... for the first time in its history, Brussels Airlines will offer direct flights on both the outbound and the inbound flights..."
This does not mean that every flight to/from KGL will be direct.
For example, BRU-KGL-EBB-BRU (3x weekly) and BRU-BJM-KGL-BRU (2x weekly).
Meaning 3 direct weekly from BRU to KGL, and 2 direct weekly from KGL to BRU.

Up till now, KGL was always direct from BRU to KGL, but never direct from KGL to BRU.

crew1990
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Re: BRU Winter 2015/2016: latest news, routes, airlines

Post by crew1990 » 11 Jun 2015, 12:45

Well so once again a lot of blabla from SN marketing for finally nothing exceptional. Basically SN reduce East Africa from 8 triangular flight to 5 triangula flight. And start 4 new triangular flight in West Africa.

Inquirer
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Re: BRU Winter 2015/2016: latest news, routes, airlines

Post by Inquirer » 11 Jun 2015, 13:55

Must be I am too much of a dull manager, but in that case crew1990, BRU wins in overall production, it wins in frequencies on existing destinations and thus improves their yield, it wins in more non-stop flights (again, good for a higher yield of those routes) and it offers more logical connecting destinations to its transatlantic and soon to come Japanese customers.
I'd say that's actually a fairly good deal for the bottom line of your company, which is what ultimately matters, don't you agree?
Of course the aviation enthusiast in me would love to see flights everywhere and see this expansion in the West, WITHOUT the cutback in the East, but I am more that enough acquainted with the fact that it must make some financial sense to do so, and in a multinational environment it must even make most financial sense to be doing it all over here.
As a comparison: Audi Vorst is the most productive plant of them all according to the VW group, yet they aren't making every Skoda/VW/Audi/Porsche car in the world either; swaps of models between plants are very common, and so are swaps of routes between hubs, I imagine.
What matters is the volume your local plant is allowed to turn out, and the money that is made with it: it seems that here, both have a high chance of becoming bigger after this swap, so to me it would definitely be a go as a dull manager.

rwandan-flyer
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Re: BRU Winter 2015/2016: latest news, routes, airlines

Post by rwandan-flyer » 11 Jun 2015, 15:16

Now that I read it again, I see that you can interpret this in different ways. "... for the first time in its history, Brussels Airlines will offer direct flights on both the outbound and the inbound flights..."
This does not mean that every flight to/from KGL will be direct.
For example, BRU-KGL-EBB-BRU (3x weekly) and BRU-BJM-KGL-BRU (2x weekly).
Meaning 3 direct weekly from BRU to KGL, and 2 direct weekly from KGL to BRU.

Up till now, KGL was always direct from BRU to KGL, but never direct from KGL to BRU.
In deed, it's quite confusing, for "a non aviation fan". A flight without a stop, is a non stop flight. A direct flight can be operated via another airport, without to change of aircraft.

I have sent a message to SN, to get more infos.

Darjeeling
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Re: BRU Winter 2015/2016: latest news, routes, airlines

Post by Darjeeling » 11 Jun 2015, 15:20

tolipanebas wrote:Adding ACC as well as increasing frequencies to no less than 3 other West-African destinations (and making KGL a non-stop route on top) is a much smarter move than holding on to a low frequency tag on flight to NBO as NBO is simply too far to the East in Africa to still hope for much feeding from the EU these days: IST and the ME3 hubs eat much of the cake on those EU to NBO traffic flows now as they offer shorter trips.
The exception is feed from the UK and the US, but here BRU lacks the vast US network to benefit from sufficient feed, so it's best to have NBO connected to the one hub which has the greatest US feed of them all and that is FRA. You do not want to offer your connecting passengers say a LAX-IAD-BRU-KGL-NBO when they can do a LAX-LHR-NBO or a LAX-DXB-NBO: have them do an LAX-FRA-NBO instead.

West-Africa is a completely different story: there the ME3 and TK are pretty weak from Europe due to their greographical disadvantage and the US feed is far less important as these countries are predominantly French speaking and far more focussed on Western-Europe still for which BRU is an excellent hub: on top of that, the upcoming ANA flight (as well as any future extra Asian feeders) will be able to feed meaningful and almost straight routes then, so better build that sector of the network with more non-stops and/or higher frequencies, over holding on to a thin route which is out of reach. Nobody in his right mind is going to do a NRT-BRU-KGL-NBO flight, but they will do say a NRT-BRU-ACC or any other West-African route: AF/KL definitely won't like this news.

Expect more of these flight swaps in future, as well as some other very interesting news regarding the integration of SN in the Lufthansa long haul product line up in order to align us even more with Lufthansa. ;)
Allow me to find it somehow "strange" that Lufthansa maintains it presence in Accra for the upcoming Winter 2015/16 season. And even a strong presence with 5x/week frequencies and with an A333 (not a Privatair 73H). So we can't really call that a swap or an alignment... Like we saw with LX in Cameroon to give a recent example.

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sn26567
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Re: BRU Winter 2015/2016: latest news, routes, airlines

Post by sn26567 » 11 Jun 2015, 15:44

rwandan-flyer wrote:My feelings

BRU-BJM-EBB-BRU 2 times a week

BRU-KGL-EBB-BRU 2 times a week

BRU-KGL-BRU 3 times a week

Code: Select all

SN451 BRU1020 – 1940BJM2045 – 2130KGL2250 – 0645+1BRU 332 37
SN465 BRU1020 – 1935KGL2055 – 2250EBB2350 – 0605+1BRU 332 246
Courtesy Airline Route
André
ex Sabena #26567

Inquirer
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Re: BRU Winter 2015/2016: latest news, routes, airlines

Post by Inquirer » 11 Jun 2015, 16:15

tolipanebas wrote: Expect some other very interesting news regarding the integration of SN in the Lufthansa long haul product line up in order to align us even more with Lufthansa. ;)
Is this what you were talking about?
https://www.aviation24.be/airlines_press_r ... anization/
Brussels Airlines and the other Lufthansa Group airlines bring together all of their sales activities in Belgium in one integrated organization under the lead of Brussels Airlines at the headquarters in b.house.

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RoMax
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Re: BRU Winter 2015/2016: latest news, routes, airlines

Post by RoMax » 11 Jun 2015, 16:19

Darjeeling wrote: Allow me to find it somehow "strange" that Lufthansa maintains it presence in Accra for the upcoming Winter 2015/16 season.
Expect this to change ;)

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tolipanebas
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Re: BRU Winter 2015/2016: latest news, routes, airlines

Post by tolipanebas » 11 Jun 2015, 19:40

Inquirer wrote:
tolipanebas wrote: Expect some other very interesting news regarding the integration of SN in the Lufthansa long haul product line up in order to align us even more with Lufthansa. ;)
Is this what you were talking about?
https://www.aviation24.be/airlines_press_r ... anization/
Brussels Airlines and the other Lufthansa Group airlines bring together all of their sales activities in Belgium in one integrated organization under the lead of Brussels Airlines at the headquarters in b.house.
No that's not what I hinted at: it's a product change on long haul routes which will significantly change the way we do business there and where LH has lead the way. ;)

SFM
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Re: BRU Winter 2015/2016: latest news, routes, airlines

Post by SFM » 11 Jun 2015, 20:22

tolipanebas wrote: No that's not what I hinted at: it's a product change on long haul routes which will significantly change the way we do business there and where LH has lead the way. ;)
Let the guessing begin!
Premium economy? (though that would require another cabin refurbishment)
Wifi?
Last edited by SFM on 11 Jun 2015, 20:48, edited 1 time in total.

BAAV
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Re: BRU Winter 2015/2016: latest news, routes, airlines

Post by BAAV » 11 Jun 2015, 20:35

I must say I am sad that NBO is scrapped but I can see the business logic, from my personal experience it is true that there were less passengers on that flight compared to years ago. On the other hand it is nice to see SN doing well now. I also appreciate that they take feedback to heart when you write them and you see it implemented

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sn26567
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Re: BRU Winter 2015/2016: latest news, routes, airlines

Post by sn26567 » 11 Jun 2015, 23:05

BAAV wrote:I must say I am sad that NBO is scrapped
So am I. I had colleagues going regularly to NBO (in C class) because the seat of the important UN Environment Programme is located in Nairobi, and often UN meetings were organised there. I guess this has not changed.
André
ex Sabena #26567

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