BRU Winter 2015/2016: latest news, routes, airlines

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crew1990
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Re: BRU Winter 2015/2016: latest news, routes, airlines

Post by crew1990 » 10 Jun 2015, 13:08

Now I remember a story about SN flying for Thomas Cook to Mombasa, it wasn't possible because SN didn't have the slot, now that nairobi stopped could SN finally fly to Mombasa o be halve of Thomas Cook?

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tolipanebas
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Re: BRU Winter 2015/2016: latest news, routes, airlines

Post by tolipanebas » 10 Jun 2015, 13:26

Adding ACC as well as increasing frequencies to no less than 3 other West-African destinations (and making KGL a non-stop route on top) is a much smarter move than holding on to a low frequency tag on flight to NBO as NBO is simply too far to the East in Africa to still hope for much feeding from the EU these days: IST and the ME3 hubs eat much of the cake on those EU to NBO traffic flows now as they offer shorter trips.
The exception is feed from the UK and the US, but here BRU lacks the vast US network to benefit from sufficient feed, so it's best to have NBO connected to the one hub which has the greatest US feed of them all and that is FRA. You do not want to offer your connecting passengers say a LAX-IAD-BRU-KGL-NBO when they can do a LAX-LHR-NBO or a LAX-DXB-NBO: have them do an LAX-FRA-NBO instead.

West-Africa is a completely different story: there the ME3 and TK are pretty weak from Europe due to their greographical disadvantage and the US feed is far less important as these countries are predominantly French speaking and far more focussed on Western-Europe still for which BRU is an excellent hub: on top of that, the upcoming ANA flight (as well as any future extra Asian feeders) will be able to feed meaningful and almost straight routes then, so better build that sector of the network with more non-stops and/or higher frequencies, over holding on to a thin route which is out of reach. Nobody in his right mind is going to do a NRT-BRU-KGL-NBO flight, but they will do say a NRT-BRU-ACC or any other West-African route: AF/KL definitely won't like this news.

Expect more of these flight swaps in future, as well as some other very interesting news regarding the integration of SN in the Lufthansa long haul product line up in order to align us even more with Lufthansa. ;)

Duke
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Re: BRU Winter 2015/2016: latest news, routes, airlines

Post by Duke » 10 Jun 2015, 15:15

tolipanebas wrote:Expect more of these flight swaps in future, as well as some other very interesting news regarding the integration of SN in the Lufthansa long haul product line up in order to align us even more with Lufthansa.
You seem to be well informed, and you make us curious...
Let me guess :
- a few LH A330-300's go to SN;
- a few LH A340-300's go to SN;
- a few LH A340-600's go to SN;
- a few LH A380's go to SN.

Which one of those will be the right one?

Duke
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Re: BRU Winter 2015/2016: latest news, routes, airlines

Post by Duke » 10 Jun 2015, 15:20

Adding more non-stop flights is a very good move.
Those triangle flights are a waste of time, especially as AF and KLM both offer mostly non-stop flights.
SN should offer Luanda non-stop in both ways too..
And flying via Luanda to Kinshasa adds at least 3 hours to the trip...

brusselsairlinesfan
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Re: BRU Winter 2015/2016: latest news, routes, airlines

Post by brusselsairlinesfan » 10 Jun 2015, 15:55

tolipanebas wrote:Adding ACC as well as increasing frequencies to no less than 3 other West-African destinations (and making KGL a non-stop route on top) is a much smarter move than holding on to a low frequency tag on flight to NBO as NBO is simply too far to the East in Africa to still hope for much feeding from the EU these days: IST and the ME3 hubs eat much of the cake on those EU to NBO traffic flows now as they offer shorter trips.
The exception is feed from the UK and the US, but here BRU lacks the vast US network to benefit from sufficient feed, so it's best to have NBO connected to the one hub which has the greatest US feed of them all and that is FRA. You do not want to offer your connecting passengers say a LAX-IAD-BRU-KGL-NBO when they can do a LAX-LHR-NBO or a LAX-DXB-NBO: have them do an LAX-FRA-NBO instead.

West-Africa is a completely different story: there the ME3 and TK are pretty weak from Europe due to their greographical disadvantage and the US feed is far less important as these countries are predominantly French speaking and far more focussed on Western-Europe still for which BRU is an excellent hub: on top of that, the upcoming ANA flight (as well as any future extra Asian feeders) will be able to feed meaningful and almost straight routes then, so better build that sector of the network with more non-stops and/or higher frequencies, over holding on to a thin route which is out of reach. Nobody in his right mind is going to do a NRT-BRU-KGL-NBO flight, but they will do say a NRT-BRU-ACC or any other West-African route: AF/KL definitely won't like this news.

Expect more of these flight swaps in future, as well as some other very interesting news regarding the integration of SN in the Lufthansa long haul product line up in order to align us even more with Lufthansa. ;)
Dear Tolipanebas,

Thank you very much for you "alwas very much appreciated information" especially regarding brussels airlines! As an SN fan, it is alwas a big pleasure to read you...
I do understand the strategic concern regarding ACC going to SN and NBO to LH. Anyway, I must admit it does make me a little sad. NBO is kind of an iconic/symbolic destination in E-Africa. Historical also since the SABENA times and the brussels airlines debut...

SN1234
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Re: BRU Winter 2015/2016: latest news, routes, airlines

Post by SN1234 » 10 Jun 2015, 16:44

I'm very happy to see these changes! I'm very curious if they can fill 4 weekly direct flights to ACC. Will Lufthansa keep their flights to ACC and if not, is it possible that SN opens Malabo within a few months? I would like to see them fly more direct flights, so I'm happy to see they will fly direct to KGL (on all frequencies?). But to be competitive with AF/KL, they need also direct flights to at least ABJ and LUA.

airazurxtror
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Re: BRU Winter 2015/2016: latest news, routes, airlines

Post by airazurxtror » 10 Jun 2015, 16:45

tolipanebas wrote: Expect more of these flight swaps in future, as well as some other very interesting news regarding the integration of SN in the Lufthansa long haul product line up in order to align us even more with Lufthansa.
Very interesting indeed : LH mit uns !
IF IT AIN'T BOEING, I'M NOT GOING.

crew1990
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Re: BRU Winter 2015/2016: latest news, routes, airlines

Post by crew1990 » 10 Jun 2015, 17:05

I'm not really worried about the fact Accra, I'm sure the load factor will be good. I'm more worry about Kigali 5 direct flight is a big expansion compared to 5 triangular flight.

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lumumba
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Re: BRU Winter 2015/2016: latest news, routes, airlines

Post by lumumba » 10 Jun 2015, 17:06

So LH will not fly to Accra anymore?
Hasta la victoria siempre.

crew1990
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Re: BRU Winter 2015/2016: latest news, routes, airlines

Post by crew1990 » 10 Jun 2015, 17:42

I guess that operatonally the combination will be like this

Accra 1-3-56- A332
Ouagadougou 1-3-56-

Abidjan 12-4567 A333
Cotonou 1--4-6-
Lomé -2--5-7

Kigali 1234-6- A332

Entebbe -2-4--7 A333
Bujumbura -2-4--7

Or something like that no?

SN1234
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Re: BRU Winter 2015/2016: latest news, routes, airlines

Post by SN1234 » 10 Jun 2015, 17:47

Airline route says this:
brussels airlines from 26OCT15 will be introducing new destination in West Africa, as it offers Brussels – Accra route 4 times a week. This route will be operated by Airbus A330-200 aircraft. Brussels – Accra service will be extended to Lome, replacing current 2 weekly triangle Brussels – Abidjan – Lome – Brussels route.

SN277 BRU1100 – 1645ACC1745 – 1830LFW 332 x247
SN278 LFW1945 – 2030ACC2140 – 0525+1BRU 332 x247

Other West African routes changes include:
3 weekly A330-300 Brussels – Abidjan – Cotonou (SN285/286; Increase from 2 weekly and replace Brussles – Abidjan – Cotonou – Brussels routing)
3 weekly A330-300 Brussels – Ouagadougou – Abidjan – Brussels (SN255/256; Increase from 2 weekly)

crew1990
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Re: BRU Winter 2015/2016: latest news, routes, airlines

Post by crew1990 » 10 Jun 2015, 17:54

And the night stop for the crew will be in Accra or Lomé?

SFM
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Re: BRU Winter 2015/2016: latest news, routes, airlines

Post by SFM » 10 Jun 2015, 17:58

crew1990 wrote: Kigali 1234-6- A332

Entebbe -2-4--7 A333
Bujumbura -2-4--7
I think it's more likely that they'll link EBB and BJM to KGL in the same way:
BRU-KGL-EBB-KGL-BRU
BRU-KGL-BJM-KGL-BRU

If KGL is kept at 5 weekly, my guess is that BJM will see a reduction to 2 weekly (they didn't announce this, but usually airlines are not fond of announcing reductions)

crew1990
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Re: BRU Winter 2015/2016: latest news, routes, airlines

Post by crew1990 » 10 Jun 2015, 18:07

Yes it would (unfortunately) make sense. Mainly because it don't see SN feeling an entire A332 only with Kigali pax. So this is the end of the night stop in Entebbe then :-(

OO-ITR
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Re: BRU Winter 2015/2016: latest news, routes, airlines

Post by OO-ITR » 10 Jun 2015, 18:12

What I find strange is that, if SN is considered to be the African specialist for the LH group, why isn't NBO transferred to SN then? Like it was done for NSI-DLA....

convair
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Re: BRU Winter 2015/2016: latest news, routes, airlines

Post by convair » 10 Jun 2015, 18:29

Let's not forget there needs to be room in the timetable for sending the aircraft to C-check during the winter months. For SN's old birds it can take 6 to 8 weeks for each!
I guess some other frequencies will decrease during the winter season: Dakar, Banjul, the "Ebola" destinations, Kinshasa?

SN501
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Re: BRU Winter 2015/2016: latest news, routes, airlines

Post by SN501 » 10 Jun 2015, 18:30

Will be a 9th A33x delivered for the winter season or the fact that IAD is not operated during winter allows this new schedule with 8 aircraft? In this case, the 9th aircraft should be delivered before summer 2016.

crew1990
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Re: BRU Winter 2015/2016: latest news, routes, airlines

Post by crew1990 » 10 Jun 2015, 18:37

convair wrote:Let's not forget there needs to be room in the timetable for sending the aircraft to C-check during the winter months. For SN's old birds it can take 6 to 8 weeks for each!
I guess some other frequencies will decrease during the winter season: Dakar, Banjul, the "Ebola" destinations, Kinshasa?
During the winter there is an average of 6 to 8 flight a week so there is no need to decrease the frequency as the aircraft aren't fully used.

Monday: 8 flights

Dakar-Banjul
Freetown-Monrovia
Accra-Lomé
Abidjan-Cotonou
Douala-Younde
Kinshasa
Kigali-Entebbe
New York

Tuesday: 6 flights

Dakar-Conacry
Abidjan-Ouagadougou
Douala-Yaounde
Kinshasa-Luanda
Kigali-Bujumbura
New York

Wednesday: 7 Flights

Dakar-Banjul
Freetown-Monrovia
Accra-Lomé
Douala-Younde
Kinshasa
Kigali-Entebbe
New York

Thursday: 6 Flights

Dakar-Conacry
Abidjan-Cotonou
Douala-Yaounde
Kinshasa-Luanda
Kigali-Bujumbura
New York

Friday: 7 Flights

Dakar-Banjul
Freetown-Monrovia
Accra-Lomé
Abidjan-Ouagadougou
Douala-Yaounde
Kinshasa
New York

Saturday: 7 Flights

Dakar-Banjul
Accra-Lomé
Abidjan-Cotonou
Douala-Yaounde
Kinshasa-Luanda
Kigali-Entebbe
New York

Sunday: 7 Flights

Dakar-Conacry
Freetown-Monrovia
Abidjan-Ouagadougou
Douala-Yaounde
Kinshasa
Kigali-Bujumbura
New York

Even with a 5 weekly IAD you can still make it with 8 aircraft during summer

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RoMax
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Re: BRU Winter 2015/2016: latest news, routes, airlines

Post by RoMax » 10 Jun 2015, 18:39

OO-ITR wrote:What I find strange is that, if SN is considered to be the African specialist for the LH group, why isn't NBO transferred to SN then? Like it was done for NSI-DLA....
Because NBO is a very competitive market, SN did ok on it but not more. But now the Kenyan economy is not doing well, tourism is performing badly and competition from the Gulf and TK is increasing. NBO still has potential, but needs a larger feeding network and a strong brand. ACC on the other hand is a good fit to strengthen SN's West-African network. With equal capacity, this route-swap makes a lot of sense.

SN might be the Africa specialist, that doesn't mean they are the best fit for all routes. SN has never been that strong in Eastern Africa either.

convair
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Re: BRU Winter 2015/2016: latest news, routes, airlines

Post by convair » 10 Jun 2015, 19:56

crew1990 wrote:
convair wrote:Let's not forget there needs to be room in the timetable for sending the aircraft to C-check during the winter months. For SN's old birds it can take 6 to 8 weeks for each!
I guess some other frequencies will decrease during the winter season: Dakar, Banjul, the "Ebola" destinations, Kinshasa?
During the winter there is an average of 6 to 8 flight a week so there is no need to decrease the frequency as the aircraft aren't fully used.

Monday: 8 flights

Dakar-Banjul
Freetown-Monrovia
Accra-Lomé
Abidjan-Cotonou
Douala-Younde
Kinshasa
Kigali-Entebbe
New York

Tuesday: 6 flights

Dakar-Conacry
Abidjan-Ouagadougou
Douala-Yaounde
Kinshasa-Luanda
Kigali-Bujumbura
New York

Wednesday: 7 Flights

Dakar-Banjul
Freetown-Monrovia
Accra-Lomé
Douala-Younde
Kinshasa
Kigali-Entebbe
New York

Thursday: 6 Flights

Dakar-Conacry
Abidjan-Cotonou
Douala-Yaounde
Kinshasa-Luanda
Kigali-Bujumbura
New York

Friday: 7 Flights

Dakar-Banjul
Freetown-Monrovia
Accra-Lomé
Abidjan-Ouagadougou
Douala-Yaounde
Kinshasa
New York

Saturday: 7 Flights

Dakar-Banjul
Accra-Lomé
Abidjan-Cotonou
Douala-Yaounde
Kinshasa-Luanda
Kigali-Entebbe
New York

Sunday: 7 Flights

Dakar-Conacry
Freetown-Monrovia
Abidjan-Ouagadougou
Douala-Yaounde
Kinshasa
Kigali-Bujumbura
New York

Even with a 5 weekly IAD you can still make it with 8 aircraft during summer
My point is you can't have 8 flights when 1 A330 is on maintenance, so I assume there will be a reduction in the number of flights, albeit during only a part of the winter season.

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